Is the Pope the most powerful voice for Christianity today?

christianmomof3 · Apr 21, 2008

Hebrews 13:7 Remember the ones leading you, who have spoken to you the word of God; and considering the issue of their manner of life, imitate their faith. Recovery Version

Hbr 13:7 Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. NASB

It would seem that the ones who are leading us, or ruling if you prefer that translation, are those who have spoken the word of God to us and we are to remember them and imitate their faith.
We are told to remember them - I would imagine in prayer and also to help with their needs, and to imitate their faith.
We have leading ones in my local church.
We call them elders which is according to the terminology used in the Bible.
They do share the word of God with us and we do imitate their faith.
We pray for them and pray with them and are grateful that the Lord has provided some who give themselves to Him and sacrifice themselves in order to serve the church.

I think that eldership as seen in the Bible related to each local church and not to the universal church.

Christ is the only Head of His Body, of the universal church.

Your pope has never spoken the word of God to me. He has never shepherded me and I do not follow the extra-biblical teachings of the RCC.

I do believe that your pope speaks for the Roman Catholic religion, which is a large religion.
But, He does not speak for all Christians.

Asinner · Apr 21, 2008

JacktheCatholic said:
He is a Minister like your Bishops/Patriarchs. But he is a bit different because he holds the Keys, they make him the Prime Minister of the Church.

TLF just argued against having a Pope.

Not certain what's so funny, but I will join in the fun.

JacktheCatholic · Apr 21, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
I already told TLF my view on it. Her repetition of what she believes it means doesn't forward the conversation.

I see.

May I ask you how it is that Jesus rules his Church on Earth while he is in Heaven?

JacktheCatholic · Apr 21, 2008

Asinner said:
TLF just argued against having a Pope.

Not certain what's so funny, but I will join in the fun.

The more the merrier I always say.

Uphill Battle · Apr 21, 2008

JacktheCatholic said:
I see.

May I ask you how it is that Jesus rules his Church on Earth while he is in Heaven?

I've seen you arguing this point before. I'm not going to engage you in it. You seem to believe because Jesus is in heaven, he has no influence on this earth apart from people. I disagree with this notion.

Asinner · Apr 21, 2008

JacktheCatholic said:
I see.

May I ask you how it is that Jesus rules his Church on Earth while he is in Heaven?

John 14:26
But the Comforter, who is the Holy Ghost whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Notice whom Christ is speaking to. He is speaking to His Apostles, not to only one.

Love,
Christina

christianmomof3 · Apr 21, 2008

JacktheCatholic said:
I see.

May I ask you how it is that Jesus rules his Church on Earth while he is in Heaven?

Jesus is living in all of His regenerated believers. He rules us all from within if we turn to Him and follow Him and allow Him to.
He is in me. Is He in you?
He is God.
He is everywhere.
He has no problem ruling us.
We just have to allow Him to and submit to the Lord Himself who lives in us.

Jn 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
1 Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world.

JacktheCatholic · Apr 21, 2008

christianmomof3 said:
Hebrews 13:7 Remember the ones leading you, who have spoken to you the word of God; and considering the issue of their manner of life, imitate their faith. Recovery Version

Hbr 13:7Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. NASB

It would seem that the ones who are leading us, or ruling if you prefer that translation, are those who have spoken the word of God to us and we are to remember them and imitate their faith.
We are told to remember them - I would imagine in prayer and also to help with their needs, and to imitate their faith.
We have leading ones in my local church.
We call them elders which is according to the terminology used in the Bible.
They do share the word of God with us and we do imitate their faith.
We pray for them and pray with them and are grateful that the Lord has provided some who give themselves to Him and sacrifice themselves in order to serve the church.

I think that eldership as seen in the Bible related to each local church and not to the universal church.

Christ is the only Head of His Body, of the universal church.

Your pope has never spoken the word of God to me. He has never shepherded me and I do not follow the extra-biblical teachings of the RCC.

I do believe that your pope speaks for the Roman Catholic religion, which is a large religion.
But, He does not speak for all Christians.

Actually "elders" is an invention by Tyndale during the Protestant Reformation. It was never before part of a scripture transaltion.

But I like your scripture quote.

I would aslo point you to Acts 6:

[bible]acts 6:2-7[/bible]

Notice that their newly ordained had hand laid on them to receive the Gifts of the Spirit that a minister or leader would need in order to be a leader of the Church.

PreachersWife2004 · Apr 21, 2008

JacktheCatholic said:
I see.

May I ask you how it is that Jesus rules his Church on Earth while he is in Heaven?

Well, he's JESUS. He doesn't need someone here on earth to rule for him.

Asinner · Apr 21, 2008

The Holy Scriptures testify to us having earthly rulers. Christ has entrusted us to the care of these men until he returns (The Parable of the Good Samaritan).

Love,
Christina

JacktheCatholic · Apr 21, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
I've seen you arguing this point before. I'm not going to engage you in it. You seem to believe because Jesus is in heaven, he has no influence on this earth apart from people. I disagree with this notion.

You aree wrong in your asessment of my belief.

I know Jesus has influence here on Earth and he does so because of the Holy Spirit.

But you would be wrong to think he is guided you through some kind of magical power through reading scripture without the leaders of HIS church as ORDAINED through the ages.

It is extreme arrogance to think that your interpreation of the scripture is the only correct interpretation of scripture simply because you say you are led by the Holy Spirit.

It is arrogance because there are Millions that claim the same as you and they all have their own unique interpretation. God is not Chaos and what I just described is Chaos.

Jesus gave us the Church to know what he taught. He never expected for each man/woman to read scripture and interpret on their own.

JacktheCatholic · Apr 21, 2008

Asinner said:
John 14:26
But the Comforter, who is the Holy Ghost whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Notice whom Christ is speaking to. He is speaking to His Apostles, not to only one.

Love,
Christina

AND...

How do we know the Truth?

Where do we go if we seek what has been taught from the Apostles?

Scriptures say we go to those that have been ordained by Christ through the Apostles and their successors for they are the mouths of the Church which is the Pillar and Foundation of all Truth.

JacktheCatholic · Apr 21, 2008

christianmomof3 said:
Jesus is living in all of His regenerated believers. He rules us all from within if we turn to Him and follow Him and allow Him to.
He is in me. Is He in you?
He is God.
He is everywhere.
He has no problem ruling us.
We just have to allow Him to and submit to the Lord Himself who lives in us.

Jn 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
1 Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world.

You bet!

We are priests of what? Not of each other...
We are priests of our Temple, our body which we use to house the spirit. When our Temple is undefiled then God can reside there. If he resides there then we are in God and God is in us.

But what happens when your Temple is defiled? God can no longer reside there.

So even the baptized can reject God. They break his laws and in so doing reject God.

What then?

Asinner · Apr 21, 2008

JacktheCatholic said:
You aree wrong in your asessment of my belief.

I know Jesus has influence here on Earth and he does so because of the Holy Spirit.

But you would be wrong to think he is guided you through some kind of magical power through reading scripture without the leaders of HIS church as ORDAINED through the ages.

It is extreme arrogance to think that your interpreation of the scripture is the only correct interpretation of scripture simply because you say you are led by the Holy Spirit.

It is arrogance because there are Millions that claim the same as you and they all have their own unique interpretation. God is not Chaos and what I just described is Chaos.

Jesus gave us the Church to know what he taught. He never expected for each man/woman to read scripture and interpret on their own.

Do you not see the hypocrisy of this, though? Here you are saying that knowing truth is not up to any one individual (which the Orthodox acknowledge), yet the Catholic Church has one individual who rules over the whole church. Just as Christ left his Church in the care of men 2000 years ago, so too today, it is still in the care of men (more than one)(concilliar). Christ also says that wherever two or more are gathered . . .

Love,
Christina

christianmomof3 · Apr 21, 2008

JacktheCatholic said:
I know Jesus has influence here on Earth and he does so because of the Holy Spirit.

But you would be wrong to think he is guided you through some kind of magical power through reading scripture without the leaders of HIS church as ORDAINED through the ages.

That is interesting that you see the leading of the Holy Spirit in us as some kind of magical power. I see bread and wine turning into blood and flesh as some kind of magical thinking. I see talking to dead people and thinking that they can hear people as some sort of magical thinking. I see a belief in weeping statues and stains on the wall that look like Jesus and Mary as being prayed to as superstitious and magical thinking. I see the idea that sprinkling water on an infant and saying certain words and believing that saves them from hell and automatically sends them to heaven when they die as magical thinking. I see those things as magical thinking because they are not verifiable or provable. Neither is God or the Holy Spirit dwelling in His believers and leading us. But, I have experienced and do experience Christ in me and know many other Christians who also experience Christ living in them, guiding them, speaking to them and speaking through them. So, I know that is real. If I had not experienced the Lord in me I would probably think that was magical thinking too.

JacktheCatholic · Apr 21, 2008

PreachersWife2004 said:
Well, he's JESUS. He doesn't need someone here on earth to rule for him.

That may be... but we may never know.

Fact is that Jesus told Peter to Shephard his Sheep. Why should Jesus do that if he does not want others ruling for him?

Answer: Jesus instituted offices of men to lead his Church and Peter was the first to be commanded to Shephard Jesus' flock.

JacktheCatholic · Apr 21, 2008

Asinner said:
The Holy Scriptures testify to us having earthly rulers. Christ has entrusted us to the care of these men until he returns (The Parable of the Good Samaritan).

Love,
Christina

And HIS church is waiting to welcome you home.

christianmomof3 · Apr 21, 2008

JacktheCatholic said:
You bet!

We are priests of what? Not of each other...
We are priests of our Temple, our body which we use to house the spirit. When our Temple is undefiled then God can reside there. If he resides there then we are in God and God is in us.

But what happens when your Temple is defiled? God can no longer reside there.

So even the baptized can reject God. They break his laws and in so doing reject God.

What then?

We are always defiled. And Christ lives in us any way. He never leaves us. We can chose to turn to Him and listen to Him and follow Him or we can chose not to. But He does not leave us. He has promised us that.

Asinner · Apr 21, 2008

JacktheCatholic said:
AND...

How do we know the Truth?

Where do we go if we seek what has been taught from the Apostles?

Scriptures say we go to those that have been ordained by Christ through the Apostles and their successors for they are the mouths of the Church which is the Pillar and Foundation of all Truth.

This is not the argument.

Uphill Battle · Apr 21, 2008

JacktheCatholic said:
You aree wrong in your asessment of my belief

alright then.

I

know Jesus has influence here on Earth and he does so because of the Holy Spirit.

But you would be wrong to think he is guided you through some kind of magical power through reading scripture without the leaders of HIS church as ORDAINED through the ages.

oh, my. a few points.

1) It's always offensive to a Catholic when someone takes their viewpoint on the supposed RP, and states that it seems "magical" yet it's ok for you to say that about someone who believes they are led by the HS.

2) I do not believe for a moment that the RCC was ordained as authority over the scriptures, through the ages.

It is extreme arrogance to think that your interpreation of the scripture is the only correct interpretation of scripture simply because you say you are led by the Holy Spirit.

3) I've never made the assertion that my interpretation is soley, or even practically pefectly correct.

4) that same arrogance that you accuse us of, exists within the Magesterium, that tells you that THY have the only correct interpretation of scripture simply because they say they are led by the Holy Spirit.

It is arrogance because there are Millions that claim the same as you and they all have their own unique interpretation. God is not Chaos and what I just described is Chaos.

you exaggerate grossly. But that is nothing new to the Catholic mindset regarding sola scriptura.

Jesus gave us the Church to know what he taught. He never expected for each man/woman to read scripture and interpret on their own.

you know that I disagree on the fundamental meaning of the word church in the first place, so this statement is meaningless to me.

Is the Pope the most powerful voice for Christianity today?

pursuing Christ

Seeking Salvation

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.

Well-Known Member

Seeking Salvation

pursuing Christ

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.

by his wounds we are healed

Seeking Salvation

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.

Seeking Salvation

pursuing Christ

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.

pursuing Christ

Seeking Salvation

Well-Known Member

Similar threads