Don't throw out the "N.T. prophets"

Biff I am not here to try to change your mind, but to challenge it. You say these offices, apostles and prophets are still here with us today. That is not possible. These people may call themselves apostles and prophets, no doubt they do. But the reason they are not is because the apostles and prophets had a specific task and that task has been fulfilled. The Lord used the apostles and prophets to make up the foundation of the church, Jesus Christ being the cornerstone Eph.2:20. The foundation is complete, the office of apostle and prophet is closed.

Over the years, I've ran across people who have claimed to be prophets and have even prophesied the end of the world etc.
When I was young in the Lord I’ve had one who claimed to be a prophet tell me that God had spoken to him regarding my grandmother who was is sick in the hospital. He told me that she
would be in the hospital a week and then be back home. The next day she died.
I heard another man who claimed to be a prophet tell us that the church in Southern Africa was
raising the dead. At that time, I had a missionary friend in Southern Africa and he heard that they
were raising the dead in America.
Prophets, since the time of Jesus, have came and gone and so have their prophecies. We see
people like William Miller who prophesied that Christ would come back in 1844 (he took Daniel’s 8:14 to refer to the end of time) and when it didn’t happen he changed it and when that didn’t happen, you had the birth of a teaching that later became a thread for a church known as the Seventh Day Adventists. Ellen G. White, wife of James White (wrote for the Church of God, 7th Day) broke off from the Church of God, 7th Day started writing volumes of books and had a great following. Today, the Adventists have a radio program called “The Voice of Prophecy.” Over the years they have predicted the return of Christ many times and failed.
And then you have Charles Russell who was a Presbyterian at the time, left the Presbyterian church, joined the Seventh Day Adventists, fell out with them over the doctrine of “atonement” and in or around 1879 published his Zion’s Watchtower and Herald of Christ’s Presence. (The Parousia)

Then you have the prophet, “Joe.” He had many visions and dreams in his early teen years. He lived in New York at the time and drew quite a following. He believed that you could become God
someday if you were good enough. His little group started a church known as the Mormon Church. They have grown and grown and still are growing. I studied for two months with a 4th generation Mormon. They do believe that God was a man at one time. One of his questions to me was “my grandfather had three wives, do you think anything’s wrong with that?” I told him I have one wife (for 38 years) and can’t imagine how anyone could keep up with three!

All of your so called prophets are premillennial in their eschatology. I will list some prophet/premillenial quotes over time. If you would like to see some earlier prophets/prophecies, I found an interesting web page at:
http://www.geocities.com/athens/acropolis/5766/misprophecy.html

I can understand why you asked the question about prophets today in the church. It is (and has been) a very popular teaching. We are told by the Lord that in earlier times He spoke in many and various ways, but in these last days, we are to hear His Son. (Jesus). (Heb 1:1,2)

Here are some interesting quotes from our premillenial friends:

Quote from premillennialist organization from year 1886 “the outward evidences are that the marshalling of the hosts for the battle of the great day of God Almighty is in progress while the skirmishing is commencing.” Watchtower Reprints, I, Jan. 1866, page 817


Quote from premillennialist organization, year 1904, “according to our expectations the stress of the great time of trouble will be upon us soon, somewhere between 1910 and 1912 ---culminating…October, 1914.” C.T. Russell, THE NEW CREATION, page 579


Quote from premillennialist organization, year 1914, “there is absolutely no ground for Bible students to question that the summation of this Gospel age is now even at the door, and that it will end as the scriptures foretold, in a great time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation.” Watchtower Reprint, VI, May 1, 1914, page 5450


Quote from premillennialist organization, year 1915, “the Battle of Armageddon, to which this war is leading, will be a great contest between right and wrong, and will signify the complete and everlasting overthrow of the wrong and the permanent establishment of Messiah’s righteous kingdom for the blessing of the world. . .” Watchtower Reprints, VI, April 1, 1915, page 5659

Quote from premillennialist organization, year 1918, “Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particulary those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection.” MILLIONS LIVING WILL NEVER DIE, page 89

Quote from premillennialist organization, year 1918 “the present war I Europe is the beginning of the Armageddon of the Scriptures.” C.T. Russell. PASTOR RUSSELL’S SERMONS, page 676

Quote from premillennialist organization, year 1920, “…the old order of things, the old world, is ending and is therefore passing away. . . 1925 shall mark the resurrection of the faithful worthies…” GOLDEN AGE OF THE KINGDOM, 1920.

Quote from premillennialist organization, year 1922, “the date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the scriptures than 1914.” WATCHTOWER, 9/1/22, page 262

Quote from premillennialist organization, YEAR 1925, “it is expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work.”
WATCHTOWER, 9/1/25


Quote from premillennialist organization, year 1931, “His day of vengeance is here, and Armageddon is at hand and certain fall upon Christendom, and that within an early date. Jehovah’s judgment is upon Christ and must be shortly executed.” J. F. Rutherford, VINDICATION, I., page 147

Quote from premillennialist organization, YEAR 1939, “. . .at the time for the battle of the great day of God Almighty is ver near. . .” “. . .the disaster of Armagedoon is just ahead.” J.F. Rutherford,
SALVATION, pages 310, 361

Quote from premillennial news article, “Not in the lifetime of most men has there been so much grave and deep apprehension; never has the future seemed so incalculable as the present time. The domestic economic situation is in chaos. Our dollar is weak throughout the world. The political cauldron seethes and bubbles with uncertainty. Russia hangs, as usual, like a cloud, dark and silent, upon the horizon. It is a solemn moment. Of our troubles, no man can see the end. Year 1990 NO!, 1980 NO!………Harper’s Weekly, October, 1857!!!

Hal Lindsey, Late Great Planet Earth, 1971 copy, Lakeland publication, London, pages 53,54
Lindsey was very sure that in 1981 the tribulation would begin – nuclear wars, famines, droughts, pollution on a worldwide scale, genocide, incredible heat waves, worldwide epidemics of horrible ulcers, earthquakes of greater than continental dimensions; these and other horrors are just up
ahead for the earth.



Premillenialists teach that the Levitical priesthood is going to be restored in the millennium. Take a look at Charles L. Fein berg – he assures us that the Levitical priesthood is coming back, invested in the Zadokites. He gets this from Ezek 44:15-27. John Walvoord in his “The Millenniald Kingdom”, pages 310-315, is very plain in telling us that the Aaronic priesthood is coming back.

Arno C. Gaebelein, a premillennialist, wrote “THE PROPHET EZEKIEL, pages 270-273, 317ff, plainly tells us: “The earthly priesthood as it once was is re-established and vested in the sons of Zdok. . . all this will be fulfilled and done when this new and true worship is institued in the coming age. . . when the Lord has restored Israel to this great place of worship stands, priestly ministrations will be resumed.”

Charles Ryrie, pages 127-130, defends the dispensational premillennial view that sacrifices for sin are coming back. The Scofield Bible, page 890, maintains these bloody sacrifices are coming back. Arno Gaebelein, pages 307-313 insists we accept the sacrifices literally or do “violence to the Word of God.”

Premillennialists believe that circumcision will be restored as essential to communion with God. They get this from Ezek 44:6,7 & 9. Hal Lindsey’s LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH, page 177, speaks of these fulfillments and that even people will be excluded from communion with God at His sanctuary.(He uses Zech 14:21)

John Walvoord, THE MILLENNIAL KINGDOM, pages 208-220, assures us that the “new covenant” is only for Israel and relates to the Millennium and not to this age. By the way, Lindsey's was a student of John Walvoord at Dallas Theological Seminary.

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The word “millennium” comes from two Latin words, which means “a thousand years.” Revelation 20:3-5 mentions a thousand years in which the Devil is completely bound and the saints reign with Christ. How are these thousand years related to the 2nd coming of Christ? The “premillennialist” thinks the 2nd coming is to take place before(pre) the thousand years, while the “postmillennialist” thinks the 2nd coming occurs after(post) the thousand years. The “amillennialist” holds the 2nd coming has nothing to do with the thousand years.


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The premillennialist are made up of many groups and names. Today, the brand of premillennialism that is popular is “dispensational” premillennialism. It is popularized by Hal Lindsey’s “LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH” and “THERE IS A NEW WORLD COMING.” John Walvoords “MILLENNIAL KINGDOM” is a definite work presenting dispensational viewpoints. Under the “umbrella” of premillennialism are groups like the Jehovah Witnesses, Pentecostals, most Baptists, 99% of Sabbath-keepers like the Seventh-Day Adventists, Davidians (like David Karesh), their names are legion. Most started with just one prophet!

Biff, Ok you were saved by someone who you say is an apostle. Thats fine if such a person wants to say they are an apostle. The fact is, as the saying goes "saying so doesn't make it so". I could tell you I was an apostle! Biff, I am sincerely not trying to put a "wet blanket" on any of your experiences, but it would do you some good to compare your experience with the Gospel. During the time of N.T. Apostles there were many false Apostles trying to fleece the unwary. "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their deeds" (II Cor.11:13-15).

You say the function of this prophet is to expose sin. Thats the function of the Bible. The Word of God exposes sin. I go to work and witness to a fellow worker and quote some verses, the Word of God does exactly what it claims in Heb.4:12, it exposes sin. I'm telling you Biff, your just going to go through life being confused if you don't get the issue of revelation settled. God wrote the scripture using the Apostles and Prophets. The Lord Jesus foretold this writting of the New Testament would come to pass in John 16:12,13. And the New Testament began to be written after the Day of Pentecost. If you do not get this matter settled you will be easily led astray. The Apostle John warned his readers in IJohn2:27 "And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taugt you, you abide in Him".

Biff and all:

I am going to start a new thread and call it "The purpose of prophey."

charlesj

Yes I do remember and I heed what Matthew wrote taken from the words of Christ,
"And many false prophets shall arise, and shall deceive many" (Matt. 24:11). It is my sincere hope you won't be one of them.