Question on the "J," "E," "D," and the "P" source.

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DeaconDean

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I have a general understanding of these terms, however, I was wondering as to what extent each of these sources are supposedly written to.

The definition for these terms are as follows:

The documentary hypothesis (DH) proposes that the first five books of the Old Testament (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, known collectively as the Torah or Pentateuch), represent a combination of documents from four originally independent sources. According to the influential version of the hypothesis formulated by Julius Wellhausen (1844 - 1918) these sources and the approximate dates of their composition were:

the J, or Jahwist, source; written c. 950 BC in the southern kingdom of Judah. (The name Yahweh begins with a J in Wellhausen's native German.)
the E, or Elohist, source; written c. 850 BC in the northern kingdom of Israel.
the D, or Deuteronomist, source; written c. 621 BC in Jerusalem during a period of religious reform.
the P, or Priestly, source; written c. 450 BC by Aaronid priests.
The editor who combined the sources into the final Pentateuch is known as R, for Redactor, and might have been Ezra.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_Hypothesis

Some writers refer to the J and E source as:

The JE source is believed to make up parts of Genesis, Exodus, and Numbers. It is primarily identified as different from the Priestly source in those texts and uses an older form of Hebrew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JE

That being the case, does anybody know what OT books are supposed to make up the "J" source?

Same with the "E," "D," and the "P"?

Could somebody tell me, or direct me to a list of books that are associated with each of the above letters?

I have a good idea that the "D" is the Deuteronomy book, and the "P" consists of the book of Leviticus,plus maybe a few others, but before I jump to conclusions, I thought I would ask first.

Thanks.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 

david01

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Although the JEDP theory has been largely discredited at this point in time, it seems to be lingering. To answer your question, most people who subscribed to that view saw the sources as having been intermingled within the various books, so that no one book could be ascribed to any one of these sourcs. For example, they said that the two accounts of creation in Genesis came from two of the different sources.

The primary reason that the JEDP theory was discredited was the use of linguistic analysis which showed that the vocabulary and grammatical constructions within these books were consistent and indicated a single author. The same analysis, by the way, indicated that Isaiah was composed of writings from ten different sources.

There was never a total concensus among proponents of the JEDP theory as to which sources were used for which books, which is a secondary reason for its decline in popularity.

I hope this helps you.
 
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eldermike

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I have read some on this. Jesus refers to the things commanded by Moses several times. Mark 10:3 is an example. Jesus also used "as it was written" as a method of giving credit to the writer in various sctipture He cited. In short, I think Jesus would have known the author of the books He quoted and told us.
 
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greeker57married

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I have a general understanding of these terms, however, I was wondering as to what extent each of these sources are supposedly written to.

The definition for these terms are as follows:

The documentary hypothesis (DH) proposes that the first five books of the Old Testament (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, known collectively as the Torah or Pentateuch), represent a combination of documents from four originally independent sources. According to the influential version of the hypothesis formulated by Julius Wellhausen (1844 - 1918) these sources and the approximate dates of their composition were:

the J, or Jahwist, source; written c. 950 BC in the southern kingdom of Judah. (The name Yahweh begins with a J in Wellhausen's native German.)
the E, or Elohist, source; written c. 850 BC in the northern kingdom of Israel.
the D, or Deuteronomist, source; written c. 621 BC in Jerusalem during a period of religious reform.
the P, or Priestly, source; written c. 450 BC by Aaronid priests.
The editor who combined the sources into the final Pentateuch is known as R, for Redactor, and might have been Ezra.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_Hypothesis

Some writers refer to the J and E source as:

The JE source is believed to make up parts of Genesis, Exodus, and Numbers. It is primarily identified as different from the Priestly source in those texts and uses an older form of Hebrew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JE

That being the case, does anybody know what OT books are supposed to make up the "J" source?

Same with the "E," "D," and the "P"?

Could somebody tell me, or direct me to a list of books that are associated with each of the above letters?

I have a good idea that the "D" is the Deuteronomy book, and the "P" consists of the book of Leviticus,plus maybe a few others, but before I jump to conclusions, I thought I would ask first.

Thanks.

God Bless

Till all are one.

The J.E.D.P. theory, these letters represent different writers or editers of the Old Testament. The "J" stands for the yahwistic writers, the "E", the Elohistic writers, "D" The deuteronomic writers and the "P" the priestly writers.

This theory developed by Wellhaushen took hold around the turn of the 20 Century with liberal theologians. Who could not accept the supernatural in the Old Testament and could not accept inspired prophecy. They would give later dates to books of the Old Testament because they believed that the writer could not have written about futher events that he had not yet experienced in history.

God Bless
Greeker
 
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Crazy Liz

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These theories have changed quite a bit over time. When I was an undergrad, I remember reading that Genesis 1 was E, while Genesis 2 & 3 were J. More recently, Genesis 1 has been classified as P.

Anyway, E, the Elohist, always calls God Elohim, translated God in English versions. J always calls God YHWH, translated LORD in English versions. D is the Deuteronomist, which would cover Deuteronomy-2 Kings. P is scattered throughout the Pentateuch.

Today, you're going to get more of a source-redaction hypothesis, with possibly two sources J (Southern Kingdom) and E (Northern Kingdom) combined by D (associated with Josiah's reform) with some original additions after the Assyrian conquest of the Northern Kingdom, then further redacted with additional material by P in the exilic or post-exilic period.
 
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DeaconDean

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I was just wondering because I'm still researching my study on "The Christain and the Law," and in Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, in the section entitled "The Law in the Old Testament: 1. The Law in Ancient Israel," 2. "The Understanding of the Law in the Older Historical Books," there is reference to the J and E. And in the section entitled 4. "The Deuteronomic Understanding of the Law," is the reference to D. And lastly, in the section entitled 5."The Understanding of the Law in the Priestly Writing and Related Works," there is reference to the P.

I was just wondering mainly what books were associated primarily with each section.

I know that with the J and E, Genesis, Exodus, and Numbers are usually associated with these. And the D is most commonly associated with Deuternomy. But as to the P, I can only assume the Leviticus and perhaps Ezra and Nehamiah are associated with these.

I don't advocate the above theory, I had just not yet ran across these terms yet.

I didn't want to have to add another subject I had to study while studying this one too. As a matter of fact, any term I knew of that had "P" associated with it was the New Testament Papri. You know, the P-46, etc.

Thanks.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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trinityisunity

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Hi DeaconDean,

I have a book I purchased for my studies which has all the differing views on the JDEP hypothesis.i.e. 18th century- Jean Astruc to 20th century- Hermann Gunkel.

The book is 'DICTIONARY of the OLD TESTAMENT- PENTATEUCH', editors T. Desmond Alexander and David W. Baker, published by IVP.

In this book there is a section on the authorship of the Pentateuch and also a section on Pentateuchal Criticism. When we studied the Pentateuch last semester this book was of great help. Get a copy if you can.

Hope this helps?:wave:
 
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Abbadon

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The J and E books are mostly the Torah, from my understanding. When you notice stuff kind of repeats (like in Genesis where God makes the world twice), that's the result of the J and E sources being squooshed together.

david01 said:
Although the JEDP theory has been largely discredited at this point in time, it seems to be lingering.

Unbiased source on that?

greeker57married said:
This theory developed by Wellhaushen took hold around the turn of the 20 Century with liberal theologians. Who could not accept the supernatural in the Old Testament and could not accept inspired prophecy. They would give later dates to books of the Old Testament because they believed that the writer could not have written about futher events that he had not yet experienced in history.

First. Off. Periods. Do. Not. Go. In. The. Middle. Of. The. Sentence.

Second, the Documentary Hypothesis doesn't contradict the idea of inspiration, just that the inspiration wasn't gradual. Unless Moses wrote the entire Bible, it obviously is gradual.

The text is inspired but different groups of Israelites at different times happened to have different parts (this is even mentioned in the Bible, 2 Kings 22:8, 2 Chr 34:14). As time went on, they found older pieces and compiled multiple inspired texts into the Tanakh (what we now call the Old Testament). Saying the documentary hypothesis is against inspiration is like saying "the Gospel of Mark isn't inspired, the Bible is."
 
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Ringo84

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It's been a while since my Survey of the OT course, but as I understand it, the belief is that several people contributed to the writing of the Old Testament. Those sources are, as you've already mentioned, J, D, E, and P sources which have different writing styles and areas of concerns.

Personally, I don't believe in the "Moses wrote the Pentateuch" theory, but in the Grand Scheme of Things, I don't believe it matters all that much - unless you're really interested in in-depth study of the OT.
Ringo
 
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david01

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Unbiased source on that?

I would not presume that any source on something as controversial as this topic is actually objective and unbiased. I probably should have stated that the JEDP theory has largely been superseded by other forms of linguistic analysis such as that which has determined that Isaiah was authored by ten distinct individuals.
 
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DeaconDean

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I would not presume that any source on something as controversial as this topic is actually objective and unbiased. I probably should have stated that the JEDP theory has largely been superseded by other forms of linguistic analysis such as that which has determined that Isaiah was authored by ten distinct individuals.

Now to this I have to agree.

One of the very first seminary classes I took was "Isaiah." Actually, I took this class in my second term, and got a B+ too.

And it was pointed out as a side bar item that the length of Isaiah, the span of years it covers, is too long for the life the prophet actually lived. It was proposed that the book took as long as 66 years to write. (cf. The Prophesy of Isaiah, Alex J. Motyer)

Now I'm not espousing this theory, just mentioning that I have heard this before.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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