What should happen to these people

What should happen to the parents

  • They should get the death penalty

  • They should get life in prison

  • They should get six years in prison

  • They should get 90 days in prison

  • They should not serve any jail time


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Forest

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What should happen to these parents?, they have been charged with manslaughter for praying and not getting medical help for their child in Oregon. The child died. Manslaughter requires a six year prison sentence in Oregon. I am wondering what you think should happen, not what you think will happen. :prayer: :cry:

http://www.katu.com/news/17247849.html
 

Hagnismos

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In the Bible Luke ministered in medicine right alongside Paul's miracle ministry, this is documented on Malta, but we can assume it was probably the case wherever they travelled together. Jesus never told anyone not to seek a doctor, except the Pharisees who were already healed. Often when Jesus, or the Apostles healed someone the Scripture says seeing that the person had the faith to be healed (or some such thing) they laid hands on them. Lack of faith may be a sin, but dying in your sins is much worse than seeking medical help, In fact when a good doctor uses their knowledge to do good arre they not ministering God's love. Now we just need to get a healthcare system that allows everyone ot have access to the care they need. A few honest to goodness miracles would not be bad either.

What punishment should these parents get? Since there is good reason to suspect that the church has seen many such deaths over the years, you could make the case that a rational person would suspect it might happen again and that since the type of faith the church employs is clearly not 100% successful allowing for medical treatment of infants and children might actually be a reasonable act of concern. Therefore, the parents are either suffering from a form of mental illness (either already present and/or induced by the cult-like atmosphere of the church) which would insist on some type of criminal insanity case, or they are competent to stand trial for negligent homocide.

Either way they should not be allowed to be in the care of children probably for the rest of their lives at least, even if paroled and action should be taken by the State to assess the overall suitability of all members of the church relative to the care of children and infants.

I'm guessing the defense will argue that it is the belief of the defendants that toddlers go to heaven, not having reached an age of accountibility. That would be a key in this, because if the parents hadn any inkling that their children might suffer and undesirable afterlife if they died not having purposefully accepted the faith, you could argue insanity or cruelty (which I think is already a given, they refused to take steps to ease the suffering of a dependent in their care when those steps were both known and readily accessible.) Since as I said, a rational person would know that prayer does not always heal, and a sane loving parent would want their child to live out his/her life.

How long? Life if that is what it takes to make sure that someone who is going to sit and watch a baby die when help was five minutes away never gets to have another baby.

But this case has so many possible aspects. It has civil liberties in several angles: religious freedom, mental competancy and the rights of the mentally ill, parental rights, big brother type aspects, social responsibility as it pertains to legal jeopardy. And then if you focus on the rights of the child, you could see a verdict that has some bearing on abortion rights as well.

However things turn out, there is no excuse for letting your baby die when you could have done something about it, and if these parents ever actually come to Christ the guilt they have to deal with will be severe and lifelong I am sure. God can forgive anyone, the enemy never forgets and we rarely when honest make it easy on ourselves.

Lord I pray that you would bring to an end the harm this church is inflicting upon it's people in Jesus Name Amen.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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While parents are responsible for their children they have no legally defined obligations to those children. Also, children have no rights as citizens until they are of legal/majority age. So while the parents were irresponsible they didn't violate their child's rights as a child has no rights. (I present this as a cynical view of this sad event.)

owg
 
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Hagnismos

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While parents are responsible for their children they have no legally defined obligations to those children. Also, children have no rights as citizens until they are of legal/majority age. So while the parents were irresponsible they didn't violate their child's rights as a child has no rights. (I present this as a cynical view of this sad event.)

owg
If that is how the laws are written they need to be changed.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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If that is how the laws are written they need to be changed.
In some cases the courts have allowed minor children to sue their parents, but usually a child must be represented by a parent or adult advocate.

Consider this as well. If a child is ruffed up on the playground it's considered a rite of passage. The same event would be assault to an adult.

owg
 
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Forest

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I would hope they would get at least six years in prison so maybe they can be deprogrammed from this cult and come to the realization on what they did was irresponsible.

Prison in Oregon is designed for punishment, not deprogramming. There are no programs to help, it is only people storage.
 
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greenjeans

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Prison in Oregon is designed for punishment, not deprogramming. There are no programs to help, it is only people storage.


I know the correction system does not help with this but being out of the comfort zone and away from people who believe as they do will shake them to there core and allow some reality to get through, and allow them to questions things, instead of going along with things. that is deprogramming.
 
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Forest

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The issue will be intent.

Did they believe that what they were doing constituted trying to provide the best possible care?

I doubt they'll be found guilty.

Manslaughter doesn't require intent. If there was intent it would be murder.
 
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ArnautDaniel

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Manslaughter doesn't require intent. If there was intent it would be murder.

There was no negligence on the parents' part. They were actively trying to provide what they believed to be the best care possible.

A jury will see genuinely distraught parents who thought they were doing the best they could.

Not guilty.
 
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Texas Lynn

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I was thinking about 6 years before I saw that option. Thanks.

Society is loathe to impose tubal ligations and vasectomies on people with good reason-it's a place where the all-powerful state should fear to tread. In this case I'd make an exception: sentenced to six, out in three, but only if they get spayed first.
 
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Carey

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How about several thousand hours community service in a children's hospital?

Yea then that way they could witness to these poor children being put through tortureous unproven proceedures. The reason God allows them to have parents foolish enough to put their faith in mans science and let them suffer more unnecessarily is because God is so proud of them and knows how strong they are. God knows these little ones are so special and strong they are like super heros .

And their parents love them but have just been tricked by the devil into believeing in doctors.
 
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Texas Lynn

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Yea then that way they could witness to these poor children being put through tortureous unproven proceedures. The reason God allows them to have parents foolish enough to put their faith in mans science and let them suffer more unnecessarily is because God is so proud of them and knows how strong they are. God knows these little ones are so special and strong they are like super heros .

And their parents love them but have just been tricked by the devil into believeing in doctors.

I'm kind of curious about those of y'all who believe in faith healers (not saying you do but it sounds like you do).....how d'ya explain Luke being a physician and all and treating Paul? Was Paul an apostate in your view then because he went to his doctor and collaborated with him on a project (The Book of Acts)?
 
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Carey

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I'm kind of curious about those of y'all who believe in faith healers (not saying you do but it sounds like you do).....how d'ya explain Luke being a physician and all and treating Paul? Was Paul an apostate in your view then because he went to his doctor and collaborated with him on a project (The Book of Acts)?

I was in a car wreck and fractured c3 thru c7 vertebrea.

Doctors and physical therapist could do nothing for my pain for years.

A lady with the gift of laying of hands layed and hands on me and prayed her hands turned cold while she prayed and I was healed by God within 2 weeks.

How did Like treat Paul???
 
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Texas Lynn

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I was in a car wreck and fractured c3 thru c7 vertebrea.

Doctors and physical therapist could do nothing for my pain for years.

A lady with the gift of laying of hands layed and hands on me and prayed her hands turned cold while she prayed and I was healed by God within 2 weeks.

How did Luke treat Paul???

As a physician using the methodology of the times.
 
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