Hi Jen:
I gave Featherdedprop a detailed answer to his “Need Help With Daniel 9:24” query in Post #2 of this thread, if anyone is looking for a warm-up reply to begin sorting out the truth of this mystery. The biggest problem facing our members is that professing Bible experts have invented a 1000 Year Day of the Lord (2Peter 3:8) that has ‘no duration’ at all, which means they try to force all of those “1000 Year” events into a little tiny timeframe. Since practically everyone is blinded by their own homegrown forms of Denominationalism (Mystery of Iniquity = 2Thes 2:7-12 = the counterfeit), then these readers are judging answers from people with very little substance in Scriptural reality riddled with contradiction upon contradiction. The truth of this matter answers all the questions and says exactly what God says through His Living Word without creating a single contradiction anywhere. My best advice for solving all the seeming contradictions is the same given by the Apostle Paul, that says, “Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise.” 1Cor 3:18. In short, forget what you think you know about ‘end time’ prophecy (empty your cup) in order to create the space required to accept ‘the truth’ of what God is really saying through His Living Word.
The reason you and Dr. John Whitcomb see a connection between the ‘last’ two witnesses and Joshua with Zerubbabel is because Joshua is just one of many ‘skins’ (Gen. 3:21) of our father Adam like Moses is the incarnation of his ‘water witness’ (helper) counterpart in the person of our mother Eve (explanation appears here). God sent ‘His’ Only Begotten Son (our Lord Jesus Christ) into the world to save sinners ‘and’ the Lord God (Jesus Christ) formed His “son of God” (Luke 3:38 = Adam) to testify about Him as “The Light” (Gen. 1:3 = John 1:4-9) the very same way. That means that John the Baptist was not only “Elijah” (Matt. 11:14), but “MORE” than a prophet (Matt. 11:9) as the “man sent from God” (John 1:6 = diagram) represented again by our or father Adam. The first witnesses (Adam and Eve) represent the last witnesses (Rev. 11), so that everything done to the final pair (Adam and Eve) is done to their own father and mother, even though all of that will only make sense at the judgment.
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I gave Featherdedprop a detailed answer to his “Need Help With Daniel 9:24” query in Post #2 of this thread, if anyone is looking for a warm-up reply to begin sorting out the truth of this mystery. The biggest problem facing our members is that professing Bible experts have invented a 1000 Year Day of the Lord (2Peter 3:8) that has ‘no duration’ at all, which means they try to force all of those “1000 Year” events into a little tiny timeframe. Since practically everyone is blinded by their own homegrown forms of Denominationalism (Mystery of Iniquity = 2Thes 2:7-12 = the counterfeit), then these readers are judging answers from people with very little substance in Scriptural reality riddled with contradiction upon contradiction. The truth of this matter answers all the questions and says exactly what God says through His Living Word without creating a single contradiction anywhere. My best advice for solving all the seeming contradictions is the same given by the Apostle Paul, that says, “Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise.” 1Cor 3:18. In short, forget what you think you know about ‘end time’ prophecy (empty your cup) in order to create the space required to accept ‘the truth’ of what God is really saying through His Living Word.
Our very first assignment to begin solving the “two witnesses” (Rev. 11) timeframe is to wake up and realize all of these prophecies are ‘fulfilled’ during ‘and’ at the ‘end’ of the 1000 Year Day of the Lord shown here and here in light blue. Today we are living through the “2000 Year Mystery Time” where Paul’s “The Mystery” (Eph 3:3, Col 1:26) Body of Christ is being formed in anticipation of assuming the Satanic Body heavenly positions vacated at their chaining (Rev. 20:2 = Rev. 1:10), when Christ returns at His ‘mystery coming’ (1Thes. 4:16-17 = my thread). To begin solving the ‘Two Witness’ timeframe problems, then you must grow into the realization that ‘our’ mystery Rapture ‘starts’ the 1000 Year Day of the Lord ‘and’ we return with Christ “in glory” (Col. 3:4) to END the same 1000 Year Day of the Lord. If you want to insist that we are living in the ‘prophetic’ END of the Age (Matt. 24:3+) times today, and wish to remain standing in the stench of that ignorance, then please hit the ‘back button’ and disregard my sayings on these topics entirely. The 1000 Year Day of the Lord BEGINS (2Thes 2:2 = comes) with our Rapture and we rule from “IN” the Lamb of Revelation for the same 1000 Years that Satan IS CHAINED, until the Dragon, his Beast and their False Prophet (Rev. 13) all incarnate onto this earth as mere men ‘and’ the END of the Age prophecies of Daniel, Zechariah, Ezekiel and everyone else are fulfilled. These two witnesses (your father and mother = Adam and Eve) make their appearance at the END of the Age still 1000 Years in the future of this earth ‘and’ only after many other events take place in a precise chronological order.Jen >> The Two Witnesses- possible answers
I came across this explanation of the two witnesses and timing and wondered if some here agree or disagree. (I don't know anything about the site so I'm not advocating it but I thought the study was well-thought out): http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=337
Excerpt:
Dr. John Whitcomb >> "For several reasons, I suggest that this is the first half of the Seventieth Week. First, there seems to be an intentional distinction between the time of the Gentile occupation of the Temple's outer court and the city, and the time of the two witnesses, by means of the different time-units used: 42 months for the Gentile domination and 1,260 days for the two witnesses. If the same time period is intended for both groups, why is not the 42-month time-block sufficient to cover both?
Did Moses wait for the Temple to be built in order to begin keeping “The Law” for forty years wandering around in the wilderness? No! Israel of the flesh has had 2000 years to rebuild the “Tabernacle of Moses” (Figure 2), as the 10 cubit by 30 cubit ‘tent’ version of Ezekiel’s Third Temple (Eze. 40+). The problem is that Israel of the flesh is ‘blind’ (Rom 11:25) and under the power of the “spirit of stupor” (Rom. 11:8) with eyes to see NOT and ears to hear NOT down to this very day (read Rom 11:7-11 in conjunction with Rom 9:30-32) concerning Israel’s ‘transgression.’ Therefore, Israel of the flesh does not currently have the wherewithal to even realize they are supposed to rebuilt the Tabernacle of Moses to maintain their cleanliness before the Lord God of the Old Testament in the Person of our Lord Jesus Christ. There will be no ‘fulfillment’ of OT or NT ‘Prophecy’ for Israel of the flesh, until the moment Elijah returns to begin restoring ‘all things’ (Matt. 17:10-11) as the “prophet” of Acts 3:19-26, which will include the Tabernacle of Moses ‘and’ Ezekiel’s Third Temple long before Satan, his “son of destruction” (Beast) and their False Prophet even incarnate in this world as men. Most professing Bible experts read Matthew 17:10-11 to say, “Elijah is NOT coming and will NOT restore all things,” rather than simply believe our Lord Jesus Christ at His word!Dr. John Whitcomb >> Second, and more important, in the very next verse (Rev. 11:4), the ministry of the two witnesses is compared to the ministry of the two olive trees of Zech. 4:3, namely, Joshua the high priest and Zerubbabel the governor of the Jewish remnant, who returned from Babylon to re-establish legitimate worship in Jerusalem (Zech. 3:1 and 4:6). These leaders did not have to wait for the Temple to be rebuilt to begin sacrificing on the altar which they erected on the ruins of Solomon's Temple (cf. Ezra 3:2-3). By the same token, the two witnesses will not have to wait for the third temple to be built in order to begin sacrificing on a divinely legitimate altar on the present ruins of the second temple. What they will need is supernatural protection to re-institute the sacrifices (cf. Dan. 9:27) in the presence of enormous, even global, opposition (cf. Rev. 11:10).
The reason you and Dr. John Whitcomb see a connection between the ‘last’ two witnesses and Joshua with Zerubbabel is because Joshua is just one of many ‘skins’ (Gen. 3:21) of our father Adam like Moses is the incarnation of his ‘water witness’ (helper) counterpart in the person of our mother Eve (explanation appears here). God sent ‘His’ Only Begotten Son (our Lord Jesus Christ) into the world to save sinners ‘and’ the Lord God (Jesus Christ) formed His “son of God” (Luke 3:38 = Adam) to testify about Him as “The Light” (Gen. 1:3 = John 1:4-9) the very same way. That means that John the Baptist was not only “Elijah” (Matt. 11:14), but “MORE” than a prophet (Matt. 11:9) as the “man sent from God” (John 1:6 = diagram) represented again by our or father Adam. The first witnesses (Adam and Eve) represent the last witnesses (Rev. 11), so that everything done to the final pair (Adam and Eve) is done to their own father and mother, even though all of that will only make sense at the judgment.
Dr. Whitcomb is guilty of refusing to place his ‘Two Witness Timeline” within the 1000 Year Day of the Lord (diagram), which is the reason his commentary is all about the 70th week without any regard for the first 69 weeks shown in this diagram. The Tabernacle of David (Adam) was built upon the foundations of the Garden of Eden way back in Genesis 2 in the Dispensation of Innocence where the hearts of the fathers were those of children (see Malachi 4:4-6). That Tabernacle of Adam (David is Adam’s ‘king’ skin like John the Baptist is his ‘priest’ skin and Elijah is his ‘prophet’ skin) is in reality the “Tabernacle of David” (Acts 15:16-18) about to be restored and rebuilt with the coming of Elijah returning to restore ‘all things.’ The diagram timeline shows John the Baptist appearing as the Lord’s ‘messenger/angel’ preparing the way from the wilderness, which represents more of Adam's testifying about “The Light” of Genesis 1:3 and John 1:4-9. However, Israel did not recognize John the Baptist as their father Adam, OR Jesus Christ as the Lord God (Matt 17:12) who formed him (Son of God forming “His” son of God), so that both must come again to restore all things. Jesus Christ received the Holy Spirit (tree of life) from John the Baptist (Adam) in the Jordan River (Matt 3:15-16) representing the “First Veil” of the Tabernacle of Adam/David (diagram) dividing the wilderness (water witness) from the Promised Land (blood and spirit witnesses combined). God has to restore the ‘heavenly’ counterparts to the Kingdom of God “on earth AS IT IS in heaven” (Matt. 6:10), before He can even think about Elijah coming to restore any ‘earthly’ Kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7) during the “times and epochs” period that START (1Thes. 5:1-2) the 1000 Year Day of the Lord. Dr Whitcomb is attempting to cram his END of the Age prophecy fulfillments into final years of this “Dispensation of God’s Grace” contained within the “2000 Year Mystery Time” shown in red in all of my Mystery Diagrams, because he (like practically all professing Bible experts) has the “water” (Kingdom) and “blood” (Grace = Christ came in both) aspects of the New Testament mixed together without any veils (First and Second) appearing anywhere in his errant interpretations.Dr. John Whitcomb >> The reason why this will happen during the first half of the seventieth week is that "in the middle of the week,” He [the Antichrist] shall bring an end to sacrifice [zevach = bloody sacrifices] and offering [minchah = non-bloody sacrifices]" (Dan. 9:27). As J. Dwight Pentecost explains, "This expression refers to the entire Levitical system, which suggests that Israel will have restored that system in the first half of the 70th 'seven.'"[2] Antichrist will replace the legitimate, God-honoring Jewish worship system, which only the two witnesses can inaugurate, with his own system, namely, the abomination of desolation (cf. Dan. 9:27b, 12:11; Matt. 24:15; 2 Thess. 2:4; Rev. 13:14-15). But the Antichrist cannot do this until the 1,260 days of ministry allotted by God to the two witnesses has been completed (cf. Rev. 11:7)."
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