To defend Obama, HuffPost Mocks Catholics For Attending 'Church' of 'Hitler Youth'

Voegelin said:

No, its not from the Obama campaign.

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Sorry, no, it's from Huffington Post.

The moral equivalency argument Obama used was to compare what his grandmother said to him in private to what Jeremiah Wright has preached for decades. Tim Graham in the OP compares the Pope to Wright. Same general theme we see used on this forum to excuse Wright. Everyone from Obama's grandmother to Jerry Falwell to the Pope is being used to minimize what Jeremiah Wright preaches.

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And well they should, because Obama never said he agreed with everything Wright said.

MachZer0 said:

Then that brings us back to my question:

If people don't think Wright's sermons are important, why did they go back week after week to hear them?

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It's possible for something to be important or worth hearing without it having a significant impact on the national political scene.

Patashu said:

It's possible for something to be important or worth hearing without it having a significant impact on the national political scene.

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So you're saying that Wright's sermons are important after all. there seems to be a lot of disagreement between our friends on the left over this

MachZer0 said:

Soundds like you're saying that the Catholic Church is the Great harlot in Revelation

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Mach, are you an intuitor in Meyer-Briggs typology? I am. We are infuriating to Sensors, our opposites because we are often right when we intuit. But when we are wrong we are really, really wrong. Like you were here, which is why i ask.

I don't believe Revelation refers to such things. it is primarily a metaphor for the Roman Empire. Any projection of its aspects to present or future reality is stretching it. The RCC is like all institutions imperfect. Ratzinger is the worst Pope we've had in 50 years. That's all.

Wright is an imperfect preacher, so is Ratzy. I'm more concerned about McCain's endorsements by Rod Parsley and John Hagee than anything Wright has done vis-a-vis his connection with Obama. Obama is his own man. Wright is retired and doesn't want anything from Obama except perhaps a kind word. Hagee is an agent for the Israeli Likud Party, a far-right apparatus, and Parsley is a minion of the religious right, the most destructive force operating politically in America today.

(I'm technically a Clinton supporter having voted H in the NY Primary and being a spouse and child of FOBs and FOHs but I hope Obama is the nominee now and nothing about Wright makes me want to change that.)

Everybody disagrees with their pastors and Obama's no exception. to illustrate how silly this whole Wright flap is, look on Huff Post for a screed by Barbara Ehrenreich-great writer for a leftist-about Clinton's connections to a right-wing women's Bible study on Capitol Hill to get some perspective. Bush attended a church with a female pastor, the wife of his former Chief of Staff Andrew Card, but those right-wingers who disdain female clergy didn't desert him over it.

Texas Lynn said:

Wright is an imperfect preacher, so is Ratzy. I'm more concerned about McCain's endorsements by Rod Parsley and John Hagee than anything Wright has done vis-a-vis his connection with Obama. Obama is his own man. Wright is retired and doesn't want anything from Obama except perhaps a kind word. Hagee is an agent for the Israeli Likud Party, a far-right apparatus, and Parsley is a minion of the religious right, the most destructive force operating politically in America today.

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Let me once againremind you that Obama didn't merely disagree with Wright, he vehemently condemned his sermons, and then put him on his campaign staff as a spiritual adviser.

By the way, I loved your comment

...the religious right, the most destructive force operating politically in America today

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Voegelin said:

Fine with me if the Democratic Party compares Wright to the Pope. Please encourage your fellow Democrats to make it a major part of your campaign this fall. Run ads telling everyone how Obama going to hear Jeremiah Wright is no different than Catholics going to Mass.

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Or McCain going to Liberty to kiss Jerry Falwell's ring.

Wright is less objectionable than Ratzy or Jerry on his worst days.

Texas Lynn said:

Or McCain going to Liberty to kiss Jerry Falwell's ring.

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Do you have a pic of McCain kissing Flalwell's ring? Or was that just hyperbole?

Wright is less objectionable than Ratzy or Jerry on his worst days.

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Wright indeed is less objectionable to the blame America first faction

Voegelin said:

The subtext is "ignore the seriousness of what Jeremiah Wright preaches". Let's all just laugh at it No big deal (but the teachings of Obama's church is a big deal and the left knows it).

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Enlighten us, O Voegely One!

If the American people are asked to choose between Jerry Wright and Jerry Falwell they aren't going to pick the obese white segregationist dead one.

Texas Lynn said:

Jeremiah Wright stands for justice despite not being palatable to scaredy cat white folks. Ratzinger stands for power, his own in particular. The comparison of villifying Obama for going to Wright's church versus those who go to RCC churches is apt and exact. The right wing does not like it because it shows their attacks on Obama for going to Wright's church as the guilt by association smear it was meant to be. It places it in the correct perspective and perspective blows up in their faces. The Huff Post blogger who wrote it was dead on. The Rightys don't like it because somebody exposed the game they were playing.

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The two are not parallel. There is a difference between being a regular attendee of a church, like Obama, where the pastor makes incendiary racist, and anti-American remarks, and merely stopping by a church where the pastor has not made racist remarks from the pulpit. Your feeble attempt to make the two parallel is identical to saying a square is the same as a triangle.

The two are not the same.

MachZer0 said:

Do you have a pic of McCain kissing Flalwell's ring? Or was that just hyperbole?

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It is a standard practice among our Catholic brethern when meeting an Archbishop and above to literally kiss his ring. The term is frequently applied to certain persons' meetings with powerful people, e.g., Don Corleone, Dick Cheney, Jerry Falwell....it does not mean he literally did it (indeed the Baptist, homophobic Falwell would have been aghast had he attempted it) but is a metaphor meaning he showed the necessary subservience.

Wright indeed is less objectionable to the blame America first faction

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Than Ratzinger or Falwell....? But the "blame America first faction" consists of those who seek to harm its most vulnerable citizens and send its young troops off to die in foreign lands for corrupt corporations.

MachZer0 said:

Then that brings us back to my question:

If people don't think Wright's sermons are important, why did they go back week after week to hear them?

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Can I take a guess? They agree with his teachings?

How silly is it to think anything else?

If a man went to KKK meetings every week would you believe him if he said he didn't agree with KKK teachings, he was only there because they did some really good work in the community? (many may not know this but in the old south they did acts of service in the local communities, sure it was only to white people but the parallel works here in this case)

eldermike said:

Can I take a guess? They agree with his teachings?

How silly is it to think anything else?

If a man went to KKK meetings every week would you believe him if he said he didn't agree with KKK teachings, he was only there because they did some really good work in the community? (many may not know this but in the old south they did acts of service in the local communities, sure it was only to white people but the parallel works here in this case)

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Well, I understand the point you are making but I am not quite sure the example is a good one in making it. Unless Obama's pastor preaches this rhetoric, on a daily and regular basis, thereby constituting as a general message/belief, and it forms the foundation of the church's existence, then the church, and Obama's regular attendance, is not parallel to an individual who regularly attends KKK meetings.

Texas Lynn said:

It is a standard practice among our Catholic brethern when meeting an Archbishop and above to literally kiss his ring. The term is frequently applied to certain persons' meetings with powerful people, e.g., Don Corleone, Dick Cheney, Jerry Falwell....it does not mean he literally did it (indeed the Baptist, homophobic Falwell would have been aghast had he attempted it) but is a metaphor meaning he showed the necessary subservience.

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So it was hyperbole!!

Than Ratzinger or Falwell....?

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Exactly

But the "blame America first faction" consists of those who seek to harm its most vulnerable citizens and send its young troops off to die in foreign lands for corrupt corporations.

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More hyperbole?

eldermike said:

Can I take a guess? They agree with his teachings?

How silly is it to think anything else?

If a man went to KKK meetings every week would you believe him if he said he didn't agree with KKK teachings, he was only there because they did some really good work in the community? (many may not know this but in the old south they did acts of service in the local communities, sure it was only to white people but the parallel works here in this case)

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Exactly. Obama can't shake the vitriol from Wright off just by saying he disagreed with him. Especially in light of the fact that he remained a member of the church, contributed in excess of $22,000 in a single year to that church, and then put the vitriolic pastor on his campaign staff.

MachZer0 said:

So you're saying that Wright's sermons are important after all. there seems to be a lot of disagreement between our friends on the left over this

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No, none of us have disagreed. Stop being purposefully disingenuous, MachZer0. We all agree that while Wright's sermons are undoubtedly important to his congregation and hold spiritual value, they matter not a whit to the national political scene. We've said this many times over.

Good try, though.

NotreDame said:

The two are not parallel. There is a difference between being a regular attendee of a church, like Obama, where the pastor makes incendiary racist, and anti-American remarks,

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Okay, let's stop here. There are some who are contending that Wright has made "anti-American" remarks. That's nonsense. Yes, he's said "God damn America," but in context it was simply a criticism of the way America has handled thing. That's not anti-American. That's trying to make your country a better place. If that's what you think anti-American talk is, you really need to get outside more. You've been deluded.

Dannager said:

No, none of us have disagreed. Stop being purposefully disingenuous, MachZer0. We all agree that while Wright's sermons are undoubtedly important to his congregation and hold spiritual value, they matter not a whit to the national political scene. We've said this many times over.

Good try, though.

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Let me remind you of exactly what was said previously

Ringo84 said:

The only people who think that Wright's sermons are important are Republicans who know that they will lose this election handily and need a diversion from their candidate.
Ringo

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So indeed there does seem to be disagreement on this point between our friends on the left

MachZer0 said:

Let me remind you of exactly what was said previously

So indeed there does seem to be disagreement on this point between our friends on the left

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And, as I pointed out in my follow-up post, Ringo meant important in the sense of importance with regard to the national political scene. Did you miss that?

Ringo84 said:

The only people who think that Wright's sermons are important are Republicans who know that they will lose this election handily and need a diversion from their candidate.
Ringo

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It is certainly true that this year the Republicans are employing the "kitchen sink" strategy.

I guess we could counter by saying McCain had sex with Jane Fonda when she visited him in his POW camp...well, how do you know he didn't!

Texas Lynn said:

Or McCain going to Liberty to kiss Jerry Falwell's ring.

Wright is less objectionable than Ratzy or Jerry on his worst days.

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So you chose racism over Gods word. Crazy.