The bible is full of general predictions that can apply to any circumstances. I challenge anyone to give me evidence that the Bible is able to predict accurately something that has happened.
How can the Bible predict the future?
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There are plenty of prophecies for example in the Old Testament that predicted the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus.
Micah 5:1-2 (NIV) Marshal your troops, O city of troops, for a siege is laid against us. They will strike Israel's ruler on the cheek with a rod. 2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."
Isaiah 11:2 (NIV) The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD--
Isaiah 61:1 (NIV) The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,
Isaiah 9:5-7 (NIV) Every warrior's boot used in battle and every garment rolled in blood will be destined for burning, will be fuel for the fire. 6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.
Genesis 3:15 (NIV) And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."
Isaiah 7:14 (NIV) Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
Jeremiah 31:15 (NIV) This is what the LORD says: "A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because her children are no more."
Zechariah 12:10 (NIV) "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
Psalms 22:16 (NIV) Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.
Psalms 34:20 (NIV) he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken.
Psalms 22:18 (NIV) They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.
John 19:24 (NIV) "Let's not tear it," they said to one another. "Let's decide by lot who will get it." This happened that the scripture might be fulfilled which said, "They divided my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing." So this is what the soldiers did.
Isaiah 53:9-10 (NIV) He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
Hosea 6:2 (NIV) After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.
There are many more - these are just a few....
Micah 5:1-2 (NIV) Marshal your troops, O city of troops, for a siege is laid against us. They will strike Israel's ruler on the cheek with a rod. 2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."
Isaiah 11:2 (NIV) The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD--
Isaiah 61:1 (NIV) The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,
Isaiah 9:5-7 (NIV) Every warrior's boot used in battle and every garment rolled in blood will be destined for burning, will be fuel for the fire. 6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.
Genesis 3:15 (NIV) And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."
Isaiah 7:14 (NIV) Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
Jeremiah 31:15 (NIV) This is what the LORD says: "A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because her children are no more."
Zechariah 12:10 (NIV) "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
Psalms 22:16 (NIV) Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.
Psalms 34:20 (NIV) he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken.
Psalms 22:18 (NIV) They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.
John 19:24 (NIV) "Let's not tear it," they said to one another. "Let's decide by lot who will get it." This happened that the scripture might be fulfilled which said, "They divided my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing." So this is what the soldiers did.
Isaiah 53:9-10 (NIV) He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
Hosea 6:2 (NIV) After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.
There are many more - these are just a few....
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The bible also predicted the dispersion of the Jews, and the return and formation of the nation of Israel.
The predictions are very accurate. It is beyond pure coincidence.
The predictions are very accurate. It is beyond pure coincidence.
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It's a circular argument - to believe that the prophecies from the Bible are true, you need to believe that the Bible is a book of fact, and not fiction. So far no one has given me a shred of evidence to support their argument yet.
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The creation of the state of Israel - the second time.
The prophet Isaiah wrote that the nation of Israel will be created a second time (this when the state of 1st State of Israel had not been wiped out by Babylon - ancient Iraq).
ISAIAH 11:11
In that day the Lord will reach our His hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Eqypt, from upper.... and from the islands of the sea. He will raise a banner for the nations and ... assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth."
Nowhere in human history has a nation been obliterated twice, had its people scattered throughout the world, and then to have them return to reform the ancient nation.
Israel was utterly destroyed by Rome 2000 years ago. (Before then it was wiped out by the ancient Iraqis) Its people were sold into slavery by the Romans and ended up thousands of miles away in various parts of the Middle East, Europe, Asia etc.. Who would have thought that the Israelites or Jews, would be able to maintain their cultural identity for 2000 years, without their homeland, and to come back to reform their state?
As you see they have returned from all over the world to recreate the state of Israel.
The prophet Isaiah wrote that the nation of Israel will be created a second time (this when the state of 1st State of Israel had not been wiped out by Babylon - ancient Iraq).
ISAIAH 11:11
In that day the Lord will reach our His hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Eqypt, from upper.... and from the islands of the sea. He will raise a banner for the nations and ... assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth."
Nowhere in human history has a nation been obliterated twice, had its people scattered throughout the world, and then to have them return to reform the ancient nation.
Israel was utterly destroyed by Rome 2000 years ago. (Before then it was wiped out by the ancient Iraqis) Its people were sold into slavery by the Romans and ended up thousands of miles away in various parts of the Middle East, Europe, Asia etc.. Who would have thought that the Israelites or Jews, would be able to maintain their cultural identity for 2000 years, without their homeland, and to come back to reform their state?
As you see they have returned from all over the world to recreate the state of Israel.
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You believe the Bible is a book of fiction and not a book of fact and so you refuse to believe any of the prophecies. Look who's got a circular argument!
Give us a shred of evidence to support your argument!
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There's a book called "A Ready Defense" by Josh McDowell. It speaks about many of the predictions in the Old Testament and how they were fulfilled.
The book uses historical evidence found even recently through archeology that show the fulfillment and accuracy of the Old and New Testament.
The book uses historical evidence found even recently through archeology that show the fulfillment and accuracy of the Old and New Testament.
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The bible is a historically accurate account of the past. If it weren't, don't you think that other writing from those time periods would reflect a rebuttal?? Do you actually think the Romans or the Jews would allow accounts of Jesus death and resurrection to go unanswered if it weren't true? Bring it to today, If a miracle were to happen, let's say, water turning to blood, with several hundred witnesses, do you think that hostile witnesses, if there were any, would allow their side of the story to go unheard? Can you explain why there are no such writings to speak of from the same time period Jesus lived?
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Actually, in the Gospels, it is reported that the authorities did try to offer a rebuttal. They bribed the guards at Jesus tomb and told them to say that the disciples stole the body away at night. Not particularly convincing though. Because the guards would have been executed or imprisoned if they had actually allowed the deed to occur. Moreover, the disciples were not of the heroic types (pre-Pentecost of course) as evidenced by their actions when Jesus was captured and later led away to be crucified.
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by foo:
You believe the Bible is a book of fiction and not a book of fact and so you refuse to believe any of the prophecies. Look who's got a circular argument!
Give us a shred of evidence to support your argument!</font>
Give me some evidence to prove that the Bible is fact! All the history books that I have read are lies and propaganda - the accounts of history are written by the winners of wars, and are not accurate!
I am asking for scientific proof. So far I have seen none.
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We have already - the re-creation of the state of Israel for the 2nd time.
It is too cynical and unrealistic to say that history is an account written by winners. The Bible, written by Jews, is an account of losers - refugees, persecuted minorities etc.. The Jews are a small ethnic minority who get persecuted, killed, massacred throughout history by the Eqyptians, Philistines, Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans, and in recent years - the Nazis. But eventually, by God's grace, they survive and overcome.
Since this is Christmas, you can consider the birth of Jesus and the rather ridiculous odds of him becoming a religious figure. He's born in a farm shed, his mother conceives before the wedding day and claims he was born of God (you can imagine the village gossipers having a field day with that one). Practically all of Jesus' followers run away when he is captured and crucified. His best disciple denies him three times. And when their movement starts to grow, the face of the opposition of the Roman Empire who like to torture and crucify people they don't like.
And when the last book of the bible was written, they were still "losers".
It is too cynical and unrealistic to say that history is an account written by winners. The Bible, written by Jews, is an account of losers - refugees, persecuted minorities etc.. The Jews are a small ethnic minority who get persecuted, killed, massacred throughout history by the Eqyptians, Philistines, Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans, and in recent years - the Nazis. But eventually, by God's grace, they survive and overcome.
Since this is Christmas, you can consider the birth of Jesus and the rather ridiculous odds of him becoming a religious figure. He's born in a farm shed, his mother conceives before the wedding day and claims he was born of God (you can imagine the village gossipers having a field day with that one). Practically all of Jesus' followers run away when he is captured and crucified. His best disciple denies him three times. And when their movement starts to grow, the face of the opposition of the Roman Empire who like to torture and crucify people they don't like.
And when the last book of the bible was written, they were still "losers".
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1 Cor 1:21
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
(KJV)
1 Cor 1:25
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
(KJV)
1 Cor 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(KJV)
You see Mr. Skeptic that God makes it so first things must be first. That is you must come to hime by FAITH. Not faith based on nothing but faith based on facts. The facts are out there it is up to you to apprehend them and accept them. The first fact you need to accept is the fact that Jesus is the only hope for you. You can not rely on yourself for salvation you need a savior that has given himself as a living sacrifice for your sins and through him you can come to a relationship with God that has eternal rewards. Based not on anything you have done but on what he has done.
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Oh Sceptic >>> The truth is hidden for those who really seek it. You must have spiritual eyes to see and understand. This will come if your heart is right towards God; and if you really want the answers. Might I be correct in assuming that your intentions are not right and you only wish to challenge us?
Caution >>> We serve a Lord that it patient and longsuffering. He is also a God of justice. Be careful.
Caution >>> We serve a Lord that it patient and longsuffering. He is also a God of justice. Be careful.
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Dear Sceptic,
I am sorry that the examples listed by my fellow believers seem empty to you.
I could only pray that your heart be opened to God and your eyes be opened to see the fulfillment of scripture.
Matthew 25 is playing out before our very eyes, but if you cannot see it then I could only pray that blindness be removed from you.
At some point you would have to choose, 'do I believe in this book called the Bible or do I lean unto my own understanding about my destiny?'
It is not whether people are able to convince you or not that the Bible is indeed a book of facts, no one has that responsibilty placed on them except yourself.
It is your choice. Believe what you want, if the truth is the truth then it will be the truth whether you believe it or not.
Jesus cares for you.
[This message has been edited by MarkS (edited 04 January 2002).]
I am sorry that the examples listed by my fellow believers seem empty to you.
I could only pray that your heart be opened to God and your eyes be opened to see the fulfillment of scripture.
Matthew 25 is playing out before our very eyes, but if you cannot see it then I could only pray that blindness be removed from you.
At some point you would have to choose, 'do I believe in this book called the Bible or do I lean unto my own understanding about my destiny?'
It is not whether people are able to convince you or not that the Bible is indeed a book of facts, no one has that responsibilty placed on them except yourself.
It is your choice. Believe what you want, if the truth is the truth then it will be the truth whether you believe it or not.
Jesus cares for you.
[This message has been edited by MarkS (edited 04 January 2002).]
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MizDoulos
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Sceptic, since you've put out a challenge to us, may I offer a challenge to you? I recommend you read, "The Case for Faith," by Lee Strobel. You will read many scholars on various topics of the Bible that may cause you to rethink your position.
It is one of the best apologetics for the faith I have read in a long time. Strobel also wrote, "The Case for Christ."
This is my challenge to you, Sceptic. Read it and then come back and tell us what you think.
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redstang281
Active Member
Ezekiel 30:13
and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt
You can confirm from this website below that from 343BC until 1951AD no egyptian royalty ever ruled Egypt - just as the bible predicts.
http://touregypt.net/kings.htm
------------------
Jason
24/M
Protestant Christian, YEC, Computer Specialist, Martial Arts guru, and Ford Mustang Enthusiast
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unfortunatly for all skeptics within 100 or so years they will have there proof, too late then.
but nevertheless skeptics can have proof, if they really want it.
believe in God+diligently seek him=your proof "the reward"
my eternity is secure in Christ Jesus.my site
but nevertheless skeptics can have proof, if they really want it.
God requires faith first.
believe in God+diligently seek him=your proof "the reward"
my eternity is secure in Christ Jesus.my site
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Sceptic~
I believe the others have said it plainly...without faith and without the discernment of God's Holy Spirit you will never be able to understand the Word of God. Nothing we could say to you would prove it, even if we had massive documentation (which, I might add, we do) that would prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. In the Old Testament, there are over 100 prophecies of the Messiah that would come to save Israel. Statisticians have said time and time again that the odds of one man meeting all the discretions of these prophecies was basically zilch. Jesus did, however, and this is documented throughout the entire New Testament. Then take the gospels, who were written by different people at different times at different places. Do you think these guys had a meeting one day and said "Ooh lets all write these books, and we'll make them all coincide with one another so it will trick people into believing in Jesus"??? I don't think so. These gospels were written over a span of 35 years, Matthew, then Luke, then Mark, then John (most likely in this order, althought Mark and Luke may be interchangeable). Statistics prove that Jesus had to be the Messiah. I'm not positive on the exact number, but it was one in a billion something or other. Hmm. We must pray for you, Sceptic, even as I am now, that the Spirit would open the eyes of your heart, that the scales should be removed from your eyes and you will see that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. I must tell you that I was a proclaimed and devout atheist up to the moment I realized that Jesus was real. He is the only one who opened my eyes. Nothing else would have ever convinced me, because I have been exactly where you are. Nothing anyone said could ever convince me that this was truly the way. I will pray for you, Sceptic.
Noelle
**"Only the fool says in his heart there is no God" Psalm 14:1**
I believe the others have said it plainly...without faith and without the discernment of God's Holy Spirit you will never be able to understand the Word of God. Nothing we could say to you would prove it, even if we had massive documentation (which, I might add, we do) that would prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. In the Old Testament, there are over 100 prophecies of the Messiah that would come to save Israel. Statisticians have said time and time again that the odds of one man meeting all the discretions of these prophecies was basically zilch. Jesus did, however, and this is documented throughout the entire New Testament. Then take the gospels, who were written by different people at different times at different places. Do you think these guys had a meeting one day and said "Ooh lets all write these books, and we'll make them all coincide with one another so it will trick people into believing in Jesus"??? I don't think so. These gospels were written over a span of 35 years, Matthew, then Luke, then Mark, then John (most likely in this order, althought Mark and Luke may be interchangeable). Statistics prove that Jesus had to be the Messiah. I'm not positive on the exact number, but it was one in a billion something or other. Hmm. We must pray for you, Sceptic, even as I am now, that the Spirit would open the eyes of your heart, that the scales should be removed from your eyes and you will see that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. I must tell you that I was a proclaimed and devout atheist up to the moment I realized that Jesus was real. He is the only one who opened my eyes. Nothing else would have ever convinced me, because I have been exactly where you are. Nothing anyone said could ever convince me that this was truly the way. I will pray for you, Sceptic.
Noelle
**"Only the fool says in his heart there is no God" Psalm 14:1**
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The fact is there are many prophecies in the Bible that have come to pass. You have to believe to believe. I believe in God and his word. Nobody has ever had to give me evidence to believe. Just look at the world around us then start reading. It's called FAITH!! As far as scientific proof, it's out there.
Duet 4:29
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find [him], if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
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Well you asked for it, do not flame me nor hate me for the information I shall give you.
There is 1/3 of the truth missing from the "Word of God", that 1/3 of 3/3 of the full truth is in Heaven "Holy Place."
If you expect to learn and know everything from Scriptures and from what people say your beliefs are off.
The Holy Bible "Word of God" clearly states that no one human shall fully know the whole truth from any Scriptures just enough to know what is the truth, for you shall fully understand the other 1/3 of 3/3 when you are with Jesus the Christ in Heaven "Holy Place" when you get a chance to talk with Jesus face to face.
For someone to say they fully understand everything is to say thay are like God which is fasle, a human will only understand 2/3 of the truth which is meant, for how can you understand everything, are you with God or do you see what goes on in heaven and everything on earth?
Do not take this as an insult or a threat of knowledge but as advice to Holiness, do not look at the world and what it says is Holiness for you should know by common sense what is good and what is bad, yes the Bible is Holy for it is the "Word of God", I do not believe in other books of the things they claim for they let worldly things into it and say it is okay, also to say we will be gods of worlds is the same act as Lucifer the Fallen angel made so beware what you read from other books, the Fallen angel Lucifer and the others that fallowed his ways can transform into Angels and fool people, the "Word of God" (The Holy Bible) says by no means will you pray to an Angel nor ask an Angel what is right or wrong or what you can or can't do.
Mark 3:29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is quilty of an eternal sin - 30 because they were saying, "He has an unclean Spirit."
Nearly one third of The Holy Bible is prophecy! No less than 10,385 verse in the Bible are prohpetic! No other book on Earth even comes close! All of God's prophecies can be proven accurate to the smallest detail. As of 2000 Anno Domini, over 90% of all 2,000 prophecies of God in the Bible have come true. Less than 10% remain to be fulfilled because the rest are for the future! With a track record like that, how could anyone doubt that The Holy Bible is God's Word?
Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin, and Greek. The chief priests of the Jews protested to Pilate, "Do not write 'The King of the Jews,' but that this man claimed to be king of the Jews." Pilate answered, "What I have written, I have written." John 19:19 - 22 Those who refuse to abandon their fasle religion and choose to cling to their worthless idols forfeit the grace of God that could be theirs in Christ. Jesus Christ, Saint Peter said, is the only name given to us by God for salvation. Therefore, anyone who does not come into this name cannot be saved. All who refuse to convert to Christianity are refusing the only name of salvation that God has given to the world. All who refuse to convert to Christianity are rejecting God's grace in favor for their fasle religion and their worthless idols!
A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God. Romans 2:28 - 29
In Romans 2, God's Word tells us that all Christians are Jews. It is by God's Spirit that our hearts are circumcised. In
2 Timothy 3:16, God teaches us that all Scripture is God-breathed. It is by Divine Revelation that Scripture we gain knowledge of The Testimony of Jesus. It is our faith in this Testimony of Jesus that allows God's Spirit to circumcise our hearts.
Oh and by the way they did find the Ark and the place where Moses crossed the Red Sea.
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