Too much of Mary and too little of ......

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Annabel Lee

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Paula, what are you babbling on about? If you knew anything about the Catholic Church you would realize that Jesus is the focus.

You might want to take a moment and read the rules of One Bread One Body Forum.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/20790.html
 
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jukesk9

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2. Those with disagreements or issues about Catholic faith and doctrine are asked to post respectfully and politely; you may "agree to disagree", but you may not disparage, denegrate, or libel Catholicism, nor may you post links to anti-Catholic sites, pictures, etc. Die-hard anti-catholics are firmly asked to take such material elsewhere; this is a discussion forum, not a debate forum. Feel free to ask questions; but do not slam Catholics, Catholicism, or the Catholic Church.

Hello Paula and let me be the first to welcome you to the One Bread, One Body forum of Christian Forums.  Please familiarize yourself with the rules before you post again in this forum.  Also, take time to learn about something before you post. 

In no way shape or form does any Catholic here believe that Mary is capable of saving anyone.  We believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins and arose from the dead.  Hence, the center of our worship is the Eucharist, which has nothing to do with Mary and  everything to do with Jesus Christ.  I will remind you of Acts 4:12, which Catholics believe wholeheartedly:

 "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved"

<!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist-->That name is Jesus--the Lamb of God who indeed takes away the sins of the world.&nbsp; I edited your post in the form of a question.&nbsp; Since you have under 50 posts, I would caution you to take to heart the rule prohibiting trolling.&nbsp; Thank you and God bless you.&nbsp;
 
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sklippstein

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hello Paula and welcome! No, Mary doesn't save you.....Jesus does. I think that many non catholics don't quite understand the catholic faith. We do not worship Mary......we worship our Lord and Savior, Jesus. Mary can intercede in prayer on our behave as can the Saints. So, yes we do ask Mary for help (intercessory prayer).......i hope that clears it up for u.
 
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panterapat

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Dear Paula,

Every time we say "Hail Mary", Mary says "Hail Jesus". She magnifies our prayers and increases their merit. As she said to her cousin Elizabeth, "My soul magnifies the Lord."

The words of the Hail Mary are purely scriptural. Who else but Catholics fulfill Mary's prophecy of: "All generations shall call me blessed."

Mary is a creature of God, a perfect creature of God. She is our example of how we should live. She is our advocate in heaven. We ask her to interceed for us to her Son Jesus. It would be blasphamy to honor Mary as God. We pray through Mary who always leads us to Jesus.

In Christ through Mary, Patrick
 
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Mary is a creature of God, a perfect creature of God. She is our example of how we should live.

I must ask that you show me where this is taught in the Bible. Jesus Christ is our example os how to live no one else. No one else is perfect.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

This includes Mary. While she was blessed to be the Earthly mother of Jesus, that is all she was. She still had sin and still had to trust in Jesus to go to Heaven.
 
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kern

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Originally posted by g_1933
I must ask that you show me where this is taught in the Bible.

This is the Catholic section of the boards, so we don't really have to respond to "chapter and verse" challenges. Anyway, I'm sure any verses we provided would be interpreted differently by you. Most of the Mary stuff comes from Sacred Tradition anyway.


She still had sin


No


and still had to trust in Jesus to go to Heaven.

Yes

(hint: Her salvation was applied "retroactively" as a direct act of God to "prepare" her, so to speak, to bear Jesus.)

-Chris
 
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So God did not know what He meant when He said that ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. He meant ALL except Mary?

In that case, Jesus is saying He is not righteous either, so He is contradicting your statement that Jesus is our perfect example.

I think not! God says, "There is none righteous" but God is righteous, there is no fault in him, therefore God is speaking of man and since Jesus is more than just a man He is not speaking of Himself.

This is the Catholic section of the boards, so we don't really have to respond to "chapter and verse" challenges. Anyway, I'm sure any verses we provided would be interpreted differently by you. Most of the Mary stuff comes from Sacred Tradition anyway.

Thank you, this answered my question as I did not think this was taught in God's Word. Also this is a disscussion on Catholic beliefs forum and I am just wondering where these beliefs come from.
 
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KC Catholic

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Originally posted by g_1933
Thank you, this answered my question as I did not think this was taught in God's Word. Also this is a disscussion on Catholic beliefs forum and I am just wondering where these beliefs come from.

Since this is not a debate forum...I would suggest a visit to the Catholic FAQ's at the top of our forum. There you will have many, many questions answered about the Catholic faith without the need for a debate.

&nbsp;

Thanks!
 
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dignitized

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G 1933:

are you forgetting that the scriptures call Job a righteous man? Or Enoch? Or Elijah? They were all named righteous by the scriptures. Paul's point in that statement is that NONE are righteous of their own will or volition. If a man is righteous it is because GOD chose to make them so. Mary is righteous and necessarily so. How could SHE be tainted and be the mother of the UNTAINTED Lord? Or do you believe that she played no part what ever in His conception?

I do believe it is recorded in scripture that : ALL GENERATIONS WILL CALL ME [Mary] BLESSED. Refuse her the honour due her and you are doubly in disobedience to the scriptures :)

Rom:13:7: Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
 
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Wolseley

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I think g_1933's reaction is common for many non-Catholic Christians who don't have a very deep understanding of Catholic teaching regarding Mary; they think that paying honor to Mary detracts from the honor due to God.

Catholic teaching, however, clearly indicates that any honor payed to Mary is conduited through her to God; He is the vine, she is a branch. No honor is taken away from God by honoring Mary. To quote from Vatican II:

"The Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix. This, however, is so understood that it neither takes away anything from, nor adds anything to the dignity and efficacy of Christ, the one Mediator.

No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.

The Church does not hesitate to profess this subordinate role of Mary, which it constantly experiences and recommends to the heartfelt attention of the faithful, so that encouraged by this maternal help they may the more closely adhere to the Mediator and Redeemer." (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Chapter VIII, Section III, Paragraph 62, emphasis mine.)

Mary can at times seem to be overblown in Catholic devotional literature, but that is devotional literature, which is not to be confused with dogma or doctrine.
 
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Originally posted by g_1933
So God did not know what He meant when He said that ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. He meant ALL except Mary?



I think not! God says, "There is none righteous" but God is righteous, there is no fault in him, therefore God is speaking of man and since Jesus is more than just a man He is not speaking of Himself.



Thank you, this answered my question as I did not think this was taught in God's Word. Also this is a disscussion on Catholic beliefs forum and I am just wondering where these beliefs come from.

Jesus was 100% man, and 100% God.&nbsp; Thus, when He said none are righteous, He was speaking literally, He was speaking in general, else He is calling Himself a sinner!
 
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Wolseley,
My comments are based on the comment that Mary was a perfect creature of God. This statement is a false teaching and I am simply pointing it out as such. I don't care how much honor you give someone as long as it does not take away from the worship due to God who saved you.(if you are really saved) You seem to think I am misunderstanding the Catholic viewpoint but that is not the case.

I do believe it is recorded in scripture that : ALL GENERATIONS WILL CALL ME [Mary] BLESSED. Refuse her the honour due her and you are doubly in disobedience to the scriptures

I totally agree that Mary was blessed above all women, but I would never get on my knees and pray to her! I can go directly to God through Jesus Christ, why try to invent an extra step? My whole issue is with the statement that Mary was somehow sinless and this being taught as truth when it is not found in God's Word which is the only source of truth.
 
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Caedmon

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Originally posted by g_1933
This statement is a false teaching and I am simply pointing it out as such.

Errrr, you mean you interpret it as false.

(if you are really saved)

:eek:

I totally agree that Mary was blessed above all women, but I would never get on my knees and pray to her!

That's a shame. I grieve that you choose not to experience her intensely compassionate and tender mother's love. :(
 
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