People that try and prove creation through science
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Nathan Poe
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Originally posted by s0uljah
A common misunderstanding of scripture.
"Misunderstanding?"
Is there some alternate meaning of the word "maul" that we don't know about?
Or are you going to claim that the bears only "mauled" the children without actually killing them?
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JohnR7
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The word "maul" is from a "Modern" translaton. In the KJV the word "tare" is used, but it means to cleave or divine. It is the word David used when the Red Sea was divided into two. It could be argued that the she bears went though the middle of them, broke them up into two groups and sent them running.
They were after all, only children they were not teenagers yet. God does not usually deal very harshly with children. Under the Jewish faith they are not held accountable before the age of 13.
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Soul_Searcher
Contributor
Nice quote Nathan. Isn't that like saying God is jealous? What does God have to be jealous of? He's GOD, for God's sake, Creator of the Universe, omni* and all that, and he's jealous? Of us? Such a small God is that...
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jon1101
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Originally posted by s0uljah
A common misunderstanding of scripture.
How so? The 'kids' may have been young adults? Their mockery was not truely just making fun of the physical appearence, but mocking God himself?
I've heard those, I would still submit that the punishment for mockery ought not to be death. So some people who are brought up to believe that the Jewish God is foolish express this opinion in a childish way. I daresay reasoning with the mistaken would be more 'loving' and 'compassionate' than dismembering them.
-jon
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jon1101
Well-Known Member
Sounds like selective interpretation to me. The NIV says 'maul'; the NASB says 'tore up'; The Amplified Bible says 'ripped up'. Care to tell us why you choose the KJV, which isn't exactly the model of accuracy, over these three translations?
Furthermore, saying that "God does not usually deal very harshly with children" is circular, for it is that very statement that is being called into question in this instance. Even beyond that, I seem to recall of a few genocides that involved the butchery of children.
-jon
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Nathan Poe
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it "could be argued" that the bears snuck up behind them and gave them all atomic wedgies, but somehow I doubt that.
I seem to vaguely remember something in the Bible about God striking dead every first-born child in the entire nation of Egypt, children who personally did nothing to offend God or any of his prophets, but then again, I may be misreading it.
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Nathan Poe
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Very poetic and symbolic, but irrelevent. You claimed that God "does not usually deal very harshly with children." I think most people would find arbitrary genocide to be pretty harsh. Shall we take a poll?
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JohnR7
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There is nothing arbitrary about what God does. It sounds like you think that you can do a better job of running the universe than you think He can. I can tell you where that attitude come from, straight from the father of all liars. God is simply not going to take the blame for the mess you and satan have made out of this world. You will have to assume that blame yourself and not try and put it off on God.
You remind me a bit of one of the black sheeps in our family, Ambrose Bierce. He was involved in the mexico american war and got shot in the head and they had to put a metal plate in there. After that they say, he started to write books like The Devil's Dictionary and things like that.
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Nathan Poe
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Here we go, boys and girls, the "Shut Your Mouth and Do as You're Told" School of Theology is open for business.
My apologies in advance if this throws the thread off-topic
*RANT MODE ON*
Ok, fine. Slaughtering every first-born in Egypt was not arbitrary; there was a specific goal God had in mind which could only be accomplished through genocide. But you still haven't answered my original question: "Don't you consider it being harsh to children to strike them dead?"
The mess I and Satan have made? This world was a mess long before I got here. Don't you think God should take a little responsibility for the world he's left to rot?
It's really quite simple: Infinite power and wisdom + the claim of infinite love + a history of meddling in human affairs "for our own good" = Infinite accountability.
Can I do a better job? With omnipotence and omniscience, probably not. But I'd at least drop any pretext of "love." The Gods of ancient civilizations made no claims of love. It was a "worship me OR ELSE" scenario. At least it was honest.
If God is everything you claim he is, and if this is the best he can do, He owes us all an explanation. I cannot respect, let alone worship, omnipotence who throws up his hands and says, "Well, you know it's all your fault."
"They say"? Are we resorting to rumors now?
And what exactly are you implying? That rebellious thoughts can be attributed to head injuries? That people who disagree with God are somehow "not right in the head?" I thought it was caused by Satan. You can't have it both ways: either we are responsible for our own rebellious thoughts, or "the devil made us do it." Make up your mind.
*RANT MODE OFF*
My apologies in advance if this throws the thread off-topic
*RANT MODE ON*
Ok, fine. Slaughtering every first-born in Egypt was not arbitrary; there was a specific goal God had in mind which could only be accomplished through genocide. But you still haven't answered my original question: "Don't you consider it being harsh to children to strike them dead?"
The mess I and Satan have made? This world was a mess long before I got here. Don't you think God should take a little responsibility for the world he's left to rot?
It's really quite simple: Infinite power and wisdom + the claim of infinite love + a history of meddling in human affairs "for our own good" = Infinite accountability.
Can I do a better job? With omnipotence and omniscience, probably not. But I'd at least drop any pretext of "love." The Gods of ancient civilizations made no claims of love. It was a "worship me OR ELSE" scenario. At least it was honest.
If God is everything you claim he is, and if this is the best he can do, He owes us all an explanation. I cannot respect, let alone worship, omnipotence who throws up his hands and says, "Well, you know it's all your fault."
"They say"? Are we resorting to rumors now?
And what exactly are you implying? That rebellious thoughts can be attributed to head injuries? That people who disagree with God are somehow "not right in the head?" I thought it was caused by Satan. You can't have it both ways: either we are responsible for our own rebellious thoughts, or "the devil made us do it." Make up your mind.
*RANT MODE OFF*
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JohnR7
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What part of: God is not going to take responsability for the mess you and satan have made out of things, so you not understand?
You can rant, you can rave, you can yell, kick and scream. Throw a tantram if you want to. But your still responsible not God.
He is not going to take the blame for the mess that you have made out of things here on planet earth.
Either God is your Father, or the Devil is your father. There is no third option. It is one or the other.
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
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Nathan Poe
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If I had something stronger than Rant Mode, I'd be using it now
Not to burst your bubble, but don't you mean "The mess WE made here on planet Earth?" Or does being saved absolve you of responsibility as it does God?
Those are my only two choices? Won't Mom be surprised....
Fine, my dad's the devil, I'm a sinner and I'll rot in hell. But does this have anything to do with the business at hand?
Is slaughtering the first-born children of Egypt not "dealing very harshly"?
Doesn't God have a history of cruelty and atrocity that would give Freddy Krueger nightmares, but the Bible whitewashes it because the victims were all "wicked" by His standards?
Read Leviticus 20:14, 21:9, and 26:14-22, Deuteronomy 7:20-21, 28:15-28, and 32:17-25, Psalms 2:8, Numbers 11:1, 24:8, Isaiah 49:26, Jeremiah 42:15-17, Ezekiel 5:11-13, Hosea 13:16, and Acts 12:23 and 13:8-11, but don't do it on a full stomach.
(Special thanks to Landover Baptist's "God's Favorite Ways to Kill" quiz for the quick reference)
Call my father the devil if it pleases you. He'd probably take it as a compliment. I know I would.
"An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
"One can dream of something more terrible than a hell where one suffers; it's a hell where one would get bored."
(Thanks to Victor Hugo for both quotes. I couldn't decide which one to use. )
Not to burst your bubble, but don't you mean "The mess WE made here on planet Earth?" Or does being saved absolve you of responsibility as it does God?
Those are my only two choices? Won't Mom be surprised....
Fine, my dad's the devil, I'm a sinner and I'll rot in hell. But does this have anything to do with the business at hand?
Is slaughtering the first-born children of Egypt not "dealing very harshly"?
Doesn't God have a history of cruelty and atrocity that would give Freddy Krueger nightmares, but the Bible whitewashes it because the victims were all "wicked" by His standards?
Read Leviticus 20:14, 21:9, and 26:14-22, Deuteronomy 7:20-21, 28:15-28, and 32:17-25, Psalms 2:8, Numbers 11:1, 24:8, Isaiah 49:26, Jeremiah 42:15-17, Ezekiel 5:11-13, Hosea 13:16, and Acts 12:23 and 13:8-11, but don't do it on a full stomach.
(Special thanks to Landover Baptist's "God's Favorite Ways to Kill" quiz for the quick reference)
Call my father the devil if it pleases you. He'd probably take it as a compliment. I know I would.
"An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
"One can dream of something more terrible than a hell where one suffers; it's a hell where one would get bored."
(Thanks to Victor Hugo for both quotes. I couldn't decide which one to use.
)
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JohnR7
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In the flesh Adam is your father, and he sold the human race out to the devil. Jesus came to redeem mankind. All who are in Adam will die, but all who are in Christ and conformed to His image, will live.
1 Cor. 15:21-22 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. [22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
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JohnR7
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Exodus 4:22-23 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: [23] And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.
As men deal with Gods people, let them expect so to be dealt with. Isreal was not only a servant to God, but also a son to him.
God demanded that Pharaoh should: Let my son go; For Isreal was not only a servant, that Pharaoh had no right to detain, but a son. God was saying that Isreal was: my son that serves me, and therefore must be spared, must be pleaded for. In case of refusal I will slay thy son, even thy first-born. As men deal with Gods people, let them expect so to be dealt with.
It is not God that is harsh, but sin. The law of God is good & just, proper and true. But the law of God exposes sin and the consequences of sin. The wages of sin is death and the natural result of sin is as cruel as the grave.
Are you really wanting to have a Bible study? I am ready anytime, anywhere to study the Bible with anyone who honestly wants to come to a better knowledge of the word of God.
God is a God of Justice, absolute and righteous Justice. But He is also a God of love, mercy, grace and truth. So, How can HE be a God of love, mercy, grace, and forgiveness. Yet still be a God of absolute and perfect justice? That is a good question and I would be more than glad to have a Bible study with you on this, if that is what your interested in doing.
Everything your doing is leading up to showing that the world was in need of a Saviour, and that Jesus was sent to do just that. To save the world from sin, and the consequances of sin.
1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Don't blame God that all die in Adam. He sent Christ so that all who believe in Him, shall live. Jesus is life and health and healing. He is the new and the living way.
You father the devil is death and destruction and out to destroy as many as he can.
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