How many guns?

How many guns do you own?

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waterwizard

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Originally posted by lambslove
Hunting. Okay.

Protection?
For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood people, but against the evil rulers and wicked authorities of the spiritual world, against those unseen forceful powers of darkness who rule this world, and against depraved spirits in the heavenly realms. Ephesians 6:12

That's all well and good, Lambslove, but a criminal doesn't care if you're holding a Bible if he intends to do you harm.  But have him look down the barrel of a gun, and he will have second thoughts.  Like I said before, most guns bought for protection are never fired.
 
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ZiSunka

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What's holding a Bible got to do with it?

I lived in innercity Cleveland for seven years, in a neighborhood that you wouldn't even ever want to visist, and I never had to resort to shooting anybody. In my whole life, I've never need to shoot anybody to save my own life.

None of my parents, grandparents or great grandparents ever had to shoot anybody to save their own lives. Killing in self defense is much rarer than you believe.

And if I had to choose between killing someone and saving my own life, well, I know where I'll go when I die, but I can't be sure about the man killing me. I would rather die myself than condemn someone else to hell.
 
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Force

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Originally posted by lambslove

And if I had to choose between killing someone and saving my own life, well, I know where I'll go when I die, but I can't be sure about the man killing me. I would rather die myself than condemn someone else to hell.

Your not condemning anyone...they have already made up their minds on where they are going.
 
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Force

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Originally posted by lambslove
They've come to rob you or rape you. That doesn't mean they have made a decision about what to do with Christ.

My point was YOUR not condemning them...they have made up their minds about what they have done and how they have lived their lives.........

And who says rob and rape...what if they came to kill you and your family...you would let evil stay loose in the world cause you think God will save you?

People go to hell!  Sad fact but it is their choice not yours...
 
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ZiSunka

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Originally posted by Force
My point was YOUR not condemning them...they have made up their minds about what they have done and how they have lived their lives.........

And who says rob and rape...what if they came to kill you and your family...you would let evil stay loose in the world cause you think God will save you?

People go to hell!  Sad fact but it is their choice not yours...

Salvation has nothing to do with how you've lived your life--you know that!

And even if they came to kill you, you're going to heaven. I look forward to being there, even though I'm not in any hurry to get there. God is quite capable of saving my life or the lives of my family. He has done so in many dangerous situations over many years. Every breath I've ever breathed was a gift from Him.

Evil is loose in the world whether or not I have a gun. If I kill one criminal, does that effectively diminsh the amount of evil in the world? No! It changes nothing! Evil is because evil is, and if there were only three people left in the whole world, it doesn't diminish the human propensity to commit evil. Each person has a natural ability to commit evil acts. Everyone.

People go to hell by their own choice, but I don't have to be in a rush to send them there! :(
 
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Force

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Originally posted by lambslove
Salvation has nothing to do with how you've lived your life--you know that!

And even if they came to kill you, you're going to heaven. I look forward to being there, even though I'm not in any hurry to get there. God is quite capable of saving my life or the lives of my family. He has done so in many dangerous situations over many years. Every breath I've ever breathed was a gift from Him.

Evil is loose in the world whether or not I have a gun. If I kill one criminal, does that effectively diminsh the amount of evil in the world? No! It changes nothing! Evil is because evil is, and if there were only three people left in the whole world, it doesn't diminish the human propensity to commit evil. Each person has a natural ability to commit evil acts. Everyone.

People go to hell by their own choice, but I don't have to be in a rush to send them there! :(

Well they seem to be in a rush to have you meet your maker is all I am saying....God gave me common sense enough to fight and defend.  Thats all Im saying.

No I dont think works determine salvation, but I dont think someone that is going to kill you is christian.  My point is they made their choice to not accept Christ already that has nothing to do with me at the slightest.

And I dont want evil to run rampant if I can do something to stop it either.......
 
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TheBear

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Originally posted by gunnysgt
Semper Fidelis!

Marine B-Day coming up real shortly, Bear!

Iwo+Jima.jpg


SEMPER FI, GUNNY! -- 227 YEARS OF HONOR!
 
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Zorobabel

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Originally posted by TheBear
Hmmmm. This sounds vaguely familiar. Oh, yeah! The German population's mindset under Hitler.

I knew if I came into a pro-gun argument Nazi insults would come, so I guess I'll just have to add some wisdom.

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."

-Hermann Goering, Nazi leader, at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II

Sounds familiar doesn't it?
 
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TheBear

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No insults, Zorobabel.

Just the stark reality of a case in point. If you would like, we could start an entire thread, dedicated to the psychological conditioning, and the purposefully slow and incremental implementation of agendas, for the purpose of complete control of the citizenry, and not just limited to Germany.

I hope I have not offended you. That was not my intention.

BTW, Welcome to Christian Forums! :wave:


John
 
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aaron

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Originally posted by lambslove
And even if they came to kill you, you're going to heaven. I look forward to being there, even though I'm not in any hurry to get there. God is quite capable of saving my life or the lives of my family. He has done so in many dangerous situations over many years. Every breath I've ever breathed was a gift from Him. 

Where you say God is quite capable of saving my life or the lives of my family, I have a couple of things to add to this. First, He is. Second, 


1 Co 3:16     Know ye not that ye are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Co 3:17     If any man destroyeth the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, and such are ye.

Here God is saying that we are God's temple. We are to protect it. It does not mention let any man destroyeth the temple of God but do NOT. If someone is to kill us (not saying that it happens often), is that not harming the temple. So shouldn't we obey God and protect ourself and those around us, whether we are Christian or not.



You also say "God is quite capable of saving my life or the lives of my family." It says in Luke:


Luke 4:9     And he led him to Jerusalem, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou art the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
Luke 4:10   for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee, to guard thee:
Luke 4:11   and, On their hands they shall bear thee up, Lest haply thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Luke 4:12   And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not make trial of the Lord thy God.

So you see God can save you. But it also mentions, "Thou shalt not make trial of the Lord thy God." And yes He has saved others in the past. But dont just test God. God gave man a brain above any other living thing on this earth. With this brain man is to further knowledge and to serve Him. Use what he has given you. Don't push it aside and wait for God. For all you know the gun is God's way of "saving my life or the lives of my family."

There is this joke or might I say a parable relating to this.

There is this woman in her house. It rains real hard and start to flood. The woman retreats to the second floor, but the rains keep coming and the water keeps rising. It rises to the point where she has to go up onto the roof. So the woman, being religious, begins to pray to God for safety. This boat ends up coming along and asks if she would like to get in. She says, "No thank you, God is going to save me." So the man continues. This happens again with the same response as before. With the water almost to her she prays again asking the Lord, "Lord please save me." So another boat comes along with the same response from the woman. The water rises more and she drowns. When she gets to Heaven she asks God, "Why didn't you save me, Lord?" God replies, "I tried; I sent three boats to you and you refused."

Ok, you may be saying that this doesn't relate, but it does. God doesn't always perform a miracle that is right there with thunder and everything. He sent man made things to save her. Yes, the woman was stupid not to get in the boat, and is unrelistic. But, isn't it just as stupid not to use the gun to protect God's temple? :confused: So use what God allows man to create.
 
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juiblex

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Study the Era of Prohibition in the USA. Alcohol was criminalized, and the crime rate soared by over 300% during that time.

true enough, however, this piece of mere prediction here does not agree with the raw data i have given you, and considering you have given me nothing to show me otherwise in return, i believe your statement is meaningless and not worth arguing.

Considering you have not replied to any other section of my post indicates that you have nothing left to say that you can back up with facts. I spent a lot of time doing that research, and im always disappointed when people do not appreciate the time i have taken to do it and dont post anything other than assertions.

Therefore, unless you wish to back up your claims and continue this discussion, i dont see the point of me spending what little free time i have being the only person willing to do some research on it in the pursuit of intelligent conversation. My mistake, i wont bother you again.

A criminal will get a gun, regardless of whatever law is on the books. All the gun control laws in the world will not alter that fact.

I dont believe this means we shouldnt try. By this logic we should abandon all law, because people are still going to break it regardless.
 
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aaron

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Originally posted by juiblex
I dont believe this means we shouldnt try. By this logic we should abandon all law, because people are still going to break it regardless.

I don't think this is so. I would like there to have to be only 10 laws (the ten commandments). Unfortunately that would not work. Instead we need a million, most are either common sense or covered by the ten commandments. We shouldn't however, have and excessive amount.
 
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juiblex

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I don't think this is so. I would like there to have to be only 10 laws (the ten commandments). Unfortunately that would not work. Instead we need a million, most are either common sense or covered by the ten commandments. We shouldn't however, have and excessive amount.

you appear to have missed my point Aaron. I apologise, i should make it more clear. My point was, just because we cannot eliminate something, doesnt mean we shouldnt try to at least improve the situation. For example sin, we may not be able to eliminate it, but shouldnt we try to anyway? Im sure Jesus wouldnt want us to just give up.
 
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caley

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Originally posted by aaron
I don't think this is so. I would like there to have to be only 10 laws (the ten commandments). Unfortunately that would not work. Instead we need a million, most are either common sense or covered by the ten commandments. We shouldn't however, have and excessive amount.

There are only three laws that can be enforced with logical/moral consistency.  The only three crimes that can truly be considered crimes are:

Fraud/theft

Assault/murder

Tresspassing

Any other true crime can be fit into one of these categories.  If you want to be truly consistent, I would say that the first two could even fit as subcategories of the third.
 
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