Where Is America In The Last Days ?

Josiah · Feb 7, 2002

Originally posted by Laverne3
Well now that makes sense. I had always been taught the 24 were the 12 apostles and the 12 tribes. The Bible is so interesting!

I re-read those verses and, really, my take seems shaky after reading the following:

Look at Chapter 5 Verse 8

"8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."

If the 24 elders are the church, who's prayers are they holding in the bowls???

Can anyone help with this?

JohnR7 · Feb 9, 2002

There are a few things to remember about end time events. One this is, that the Kingdoms of this world are going to become the Kingdoms of God. It is though us that God is going to accomplish that. So, we know that the biggest harvest ever is ahead of us. There are more people alive today, then have ever lived, so we know that in the years to come, more people are going to come to God, then have ever come to Him in the past.

Also we know that there is going to be more evil poured out on this world then ever before. Thus there is going to be more of the grace of God poured out than every before, to overcome the evil. We are heading into a time of greatness for the church, that it has never seen in the past. Even Moses know that the latter rain was greater than the early rain. The early rain is to get the seeds started, but the later rain is to bring the fruit to become mature for the harvest. We are going to see miracles and healing and a demonstration of the power of God like we never have before. Already this has begun in Africa.

Of course for those who are in the world, it is not going to be a very good time for them. Things will just get progressively worse. We have the divine power of God working in our lives. They have nothing but the natural to rely and depend upon.

celtic_crusader · Feb 9, 2002

THUNDER,
Could I ask a couple of questions concerning the "rapture" or catching away of the church, you seem like the person to ask????

These are genuine questions, based on me knowing the scriptures well but not knowing common church beliefs on the subject of prophesy, except the basics.

So, this is what I am curious about.

1. What scriptures show the stage of the tribulation were the rapture will occur??? (Or should I say,"what is this pre, post and mid trib. stuff??)

2. Isnt the rapture the "catching away of the church" or as Paul said, "caught up"

3. I get the impression from Paul that the catching away and the first resurrection of the dead will be as Christ returns to make war with the kings of the earth????

This is why I am asking about the pre, post and mid trib. beliefs and what they mean???

Hears what makes me think that it is all one event.

1 Thessalonians 4

14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Paul seems to have laid out the events all simultaneous to each other; he even says that the dead in Christ will rise "first".

So wouldnt the next advent be the raising of the dead of all those in Christ "first " before the catching away and the return of Jesus???

I get the impression that once Jesus catches the raised and the righteous up to him that he will return and make war with the kings of the earth.

Isaiah 66
15
For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16
For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

So, I am very interested in what scriptures place the tribulation period with the timing of the rapture???

Thanks

celtic

rollinTHUNDER · Feb 9, 2002

Hey celtic crusader,
This gets old if you keep answering the same questions over and over, but thank God for old threads. LOL.
Go to another thread that I already pulled up for you entitled "TRIBULATION". I'll try to answer any additional you may have there.
P.S : Try to keep them a little bit shorter please. Thanks Dude.

ClieGuy · Feb 9, 2002

Great message here!!!

I have always been of the impression that the USA doesn't play a big part in the tribulation. A lot of other folks like to think the USA is so powerful that it has to be a factor.

The message that God gave you really confirms the voice that I have been hearing.

Thanks for sharing this messageand may God bless you all of your days!!!!

sbbqb7n16 · Feb 10, 2002

Sorry so long since a post!!!!

Originally posted by WAMC_david
hmmm... HEllo.. first off all let me introduce myself, my names DAvid and im from California in the U.S .. im only 16 years old,,,, >> but after reading couple of these posts, cause i dont feel like reading all,,,, but i just believe that u kno we as christians arent suppose to even think about the end, it said in the bible to live our lifes like there is no tomorow, i just feel like we are kinda worrying...... well not worrying but, i dunoo just dont even think about that kinda stuff, cause of course we want god to come faster so it wouldnt really matter trying to put the worldy happening things w/ the bible, live ur life like no tomorw...

ps. dont look down at me cause im only 16! lols

god bless.

Hey Dave,
I'm also 16 but from Texas. So you don't have to worry about me looking down at you. Even though it does(don't know verse but I think it does....) say in the Bible to live like there's no tomorrow, BUT it also tells us to look for the signs of His coming. When He was talking to the pharesees (sp?) in the synagogue, He told them "you can tell the weather by the signs in the heavens, but you can't even tell the signs of the coming of the Son of Man." (no idea what verse here either) I know original intent was for them to know that He was the Messiah, but it teaches that you should look for and be prepared for Jesus's return. In this forum, we are just speculating about possible outcomes in America's future as we see the possibility arise for these prophecies fulfilled. Plus I've always had trouble dealing with "don't worry about tomorrow for today will have enough trouble of it's own." This is something I definitly need to work on myself. But nonetheless, we should always look for the return of Jesus.

"When these things come to pass, look up, lift up your heads for you redemption draweth nigh."-Luke 21:28

Holycanaan · Feb 10, 2002

Hi Sbbqb7n16,

I just had to reply to your response to the other 16 year old. I am a Grandmother of 15 grandchildren. It does my heart good to know that there are some very wise younger generation out there after all. I pray that Our Precious Lord Jesus will continue to bless and reveal more of Himself to you!! Jesus is the ONLY way, especially now days! Yes, I truly do believe that we are now living in the last days. So many prophecies are taking place right before our eyes. I agree with you totally, that we are not to be ignorant of what is happening all around us but to keep our eyes open for His soon return. There are many verses in the Bible where it tells us that we must keep an eye on the signs of Jesus' return.
Your Sister In Christ, <><

rollinTHUNDER · Feb 13, 2002

Originally posted by ClieGuy
Great message here!!!

I have always been of the impression that the USA doesn't play a big part in the tribulation. A lot of other folks like to think the USA is so powerful that it has to be a factor.

Thanks for sharing this messageand may God bless you all of your days!!!!

Hello ClieGuy,
Welcome to the forum and thanks for your kind words. I can't see the U.S. playing a major role for very much longer. A lot of people are losing their jobs now, and boy is this war against the terrorists ever expensive. Our economy is already on shaky ground. The rapture will definately be the straw that breaks this camels back. But, I also believe that the rapture will only be the beginning. Judgment day is coming soon after that, and I'm sure glad we won't have to go through that. I wouldn't want to even think about that, and the Lord didn't even mention any of that, but this land will surely be judged. I've heard it said - that if God didn't judge America, then He would have to apoligize to Sodom and Gomorah. It would be hard to argue against this, because we have some awful sinful things going on here in these last days, and not only that, but they practicly told God to take a hike. I sure am glad that He is going to remove the ones He loves first.

Joseph Swann · Feb 15, 2002

America is siding with israel until that one spark hits.. and soon Israel will be all by themself and peace will appear to come by way of the anti christ..

all i know is my bags is pacted.. and i know some people have diffrent views of when the rapture will happen.. some people think it will be right before the tribulation some people think it will be in the end and some think in the middle.. me i hope its before.. but when ever it is im ready

stratman44 · Feb 16, 2002

Hi everybody and praise the Lord!

In reference to "Behold, I shew you a mystery". These are the correct verses for this, but please, please pay close attention to the trumpet part.....

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump : for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Do we all agree that this will be on the "last trump"? read that again. It reads "the last trump ".

Ok, now read these verses and once again pay close attention to the trumpet part.....

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet , and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

If we are indeed to be taken away at the last trump then that means the last trump . Notice the trumpet in these verses of Mathew. If the last trump signals our departure as the Body of Christ in 1 Cor 15:52 then there would be no more trumpets to sound, correct? This is the same trumpet as in these verses of Mathew. Please think about this carefully. Last trump means last trump. No more trumps after this. nadda.

Come on gang let's help these poor lost souls through the tribulation like God has planned. He'll protect us just like he protected our 3 brothers in the firey furnace and Daniel in the lions den. Just imagine the multitude of souls that will be ripe for harvest during these times.

God bless you all
Your brother in Christ
Steven

46mech · Feb 16, 2002

rollinThunder,

Well, I guess I'll be the one who voices his concern about this "prophesy," and I'm sure I'll get more than enough flaming from this post.
I'm not a scholar of the scriptures and I don't pretend to have too much of a grasp on end times prophesies, so I'm only speaking from my gut on this.
You told us that God told you these things, and while you didn't give a specific date, you did give a specific timeline. Hence, you might be misleading Christians into expecting the rapture within ten years. This would be opposite of what the scriptures tell us about not knowing the day or the hour, does it not?
I don't know if you meant to present yourself as a prophet, but based on the content of your first two postings, that was my impression.......that you were relaying a prophesy and not just a theory.
I'm just a man who really loves the Lord and am concerned whenever I hear/read something that seems to contradict what I have come to understand from the scriptures. So if I have misunderstood your post please forgive me.

rollinTHUNDER · Feb 16, 2002

Hello stratman44,
I see what you are saying here about the last trumpet. But, I have never been one to say that we will be called up on the last trump, nor do I believe that. I see others here, trying to make a case for it, but I'm not one of them. I don't have time for any discussion now, maybe Monday.

stratman44 · Feb 16, 2002

Hi brother rollinTHUNDER,

Sorry if my post seemed like an attack. You did quote 1 Cor 15:51 and went on to say that the church would be raptured before the Great Tribulation.

I should have also mentioned that I do believe you heard from God. Especially concerning the economic crash of the United States. I believe it will be for other reasons though than the Body of Christ being taken away. I do believe it will be from continued terrorist attacks. They've proven to themselves that the US financial system can indeed be shaken with these kind of attacks. Does anyone honestly believe they won't continue? If you were a group of madmen and you just scored such a devastating blow to a world superpower with only a handful of men would you stop?

By the way I don't claim to be a prophet just as rollinTHUNDER never has officially claimed to be a prophet here either. Even though I think he's probably a prophet in the makings. All gifts have to be brought to maturity. Usually through trial and error.

Check out the link on my signature. Thomas S Gibson does claim to be a prophet. What rollinTHUNDER has roughly outlined here is somewhat along the lines of the prophesies of Gibson. Especially concerning the economy of the US crashing big time.

I believe God was clueing you that we will see the return of Jesus in our lifetime. But this pre-trib rapture deception that has been plaguing the Church has been confusing even the elect. Why on earth would God take the Church away when so many millions of souls will be in desperate need of people to lead them to salvation? Would Jesus leave all these lost souls to perish? I believe He would stay. I believe we are to be like Jesus?

God bless this forum and all who participate! And don't be afraid of the times ahead! God is about to show His glory to the world through His Church bigger than He ever has before. Remember, Psa 91:7 "A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee." This verse will become a reality to many of us in these last days.

Your brother in Christ,
Steven

Holycanaan · Feb 16, 2002

Originally posted by stratman44
.

Why on earth would God take the Church away when so many millions of souls will be in desperate need of people to lead them to salvation? Would Jesus leave all these lost souls to perish? I believe He would stay. I believe we are to be like Jesus?

What about the 144,000 from Revelations 7 God will send 144,000 Jewish witnesses filled with the Holy Spirit. God will go to the most extreme measures in all of history during the final days of man's life on earth to bring a massive number of souls to faith in Him so multitudes of people may enjoy the blessings He has prepared for their eternal future.

Also, the two Witnesses of Revelation 11 ~~

As a special climax to God's ministry of salvation, Revelation 7:9 indicates that during the first part of tribulation the greatest soul harvest in all history will take place. More people will accept Christ during the early months of the tribulation, before the anti-christ really has a chance to consolidate his one-world government and set up his one-world religion of self-worship (Rev. 13:5-7), than have been converted in the entire 1900 + years of church age.

EVEN THE ANGELS ARE COMING TO PREACH TO THE PEOPLE THAT WERE NOT RAPTURED:

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation. and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, fear God, and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgement is come: and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the foundations of water.

So we have the 144,000 right along with the two witnesses and an angel to preach the gospel.

stratman44 · Feb 16, 2002

Did you read my prior post Holycanaan?

Please read my first post to this thread.

God bless,
Steven

Holycanaan · Feb 17, 2002

~~stratman44~~

Yes, I read your first post. You appear to believe in either the mid or post tribulation. I have something for you to think on. One of the many reasons that I believe in the pre tribulation is because the Rapture is a secret thing. A sudden snatching out of this world of the believers. The Glorious Appearing Jesus second coming, will not be secret but well known. Just food for thought. <><

Willis Deal · Feb 17, 2002

---------QUOTE: You told us that God told you these things, and while you didn't give a specific date, you did give a specific timeline. Hence, you might be misleading Christians into expecting the rapture within ten years. This would be opposite of what the scriptures tell us about not knowing the day or the hour, does it not?--------------

I'm sure that thunder gets a little weary with all the questions so I'll take a shot at this one. Many have gotten around this verse by saying that it doesn't teach that we won't know the year or the month. This has been supported by a study of prophecy. Once you understand the timeline of prophecy you'll see that once the seven year tribulation period begins you'll know pretty close when Jesus will return on the white horse.

I believe that God has revealed exactly when these things will take place, but with His sense of humor He's also made it impossible to correlate to a modern calendar.

stratman44 · Feb 17, 2002

>>>>>>>Holycanaan

You are so correct about the "rapture" being a secret, but scripture tells us the "2nd coming of Jesus" is a secret as well.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

We also have definite scripture that tells us these things will both happen "after" the tribulation.

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation , the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Praise the Lord! In these hours of darkness the Body of Christ will experience the fullness of the Holy Spirit like it never has before! Father let the latter rains fall! Hallelujah! Then will we indeed be the true shining light we were called to be unto a lost and dying world!

Your brother in Christ,
Steven

Debbie · Feb 18, 2002

Holy cannan, In reference to you rpost above, (#74), you quoted REV. 7:9( same as 5:9) & Rev. 14.
What you said is true, so it follows that you would believe in mid trib rapture at least. For the folks you mentioned in post ARE ALL DEAD. They are the trib saints, & they are in heaven around the throne.
Rev. 20:4-5: in summary says they are around the throne, they can judge, JOhn saw their souls, they were beheaded for witness of Jesus, word of God, not worshipping beast or his image, not taking the markON THEIR FOREHEAD OR HANDS, AND THEY LIVED & REIGNED WITH CHRIST A THOUSAND YEARS. 5- "bUT THE REST OF THE DEAD LIVED NOT AGAIN UNTIL THE THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION." !!!!!!!!!!!!!
6-they shall reign with CHrist a thousand years.

How can the trib saints reign with Christ a thousand years if the dead in Christ(1st resurrection)/rapture of dead in Christ, occurred BEFORE the tribulation began?
The people who become Christians AFTER the rapture will not be resurrected until the final judgment day, after the 1000 year reign of Christ. AGREE?
How can the trib saints reign with Christ a thousand years if the rapture occurs before the trib starts?

rollinTHUNDER · Feb 18, 2002

Originally posted by stratman44
>>>>>>>Holycanaan

You are so correct about the "rapture" being a secret, but scripture tells us the "2nd coming of Jesus" is a secret as well.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Praise the Lord! In these hours of darkness the Body of Christ will experience the fullness of the Holy Spirit like it never has before! Father let the latter rains fall! Hallelujah! Then will we indeed be the true shining light we were called to be unto a lost and dying world!

Your brother in Christ,
Steven

Hello stratman44,
It would appear that we are all in agreement that the rapture will be in secret, but I wouldn't agree that the second coming will be a secret. I believe the scritures make it quite clear.
Rev. 1:7 - "Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him."
I hear a lot of people saying that we will all be able to see his coming because of the invention of television, but I think the whole world will be so dark, that every eye that can see, will be able to see His coming. Jesus is the light of the world, and they will see Him coming in all His glory. And we will be coming with Him, dressed in bright white. So when the King comes, millions of christians and the angels of heaven will also come. Also we will be on white horses. The world won't be able to miss it. I can sort of picture it as, looking up into the dark sky, and seeing a HUGE white cloud of the citizens of heaven coming with the King of Glory.
The time of the second coming can't be known at this time, but after the rapture, you could calculate the day, or at least know when you start to see the darkness.

Where Is America In The Last Days ?

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