Should churches tithe?

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CindyisHis

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Hey Bob,

No problems, here's one last attempt from me:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tithing and Hebrews 7[/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](Commentary)[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]


[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hebrews 7 (AMP)[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem [and] priest of the Most High God, met Abraham as he returned from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]God gave Abraham a mighty victory. Not only did Abraham manage to defeat the four kings and their armies, he brought back all the goods and provisions of Sodom and Gomorrah, and also brought back his nephew Lot and his goods, as well as the women and people. (Genesis 14:8-16) [/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Then, as Abraham was returning from the slaughter of the kings, Melchizedek the king-priest met him and said: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Genesis 14:19-20 [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]19 "Blessed be Abram of God Most High, possessor of heaven and earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]20 And blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So we see Abraham greatly blessed. God gave him victory over his enemies and with that, the spoils of war. Mechizedek also brought out bread and wine (Genesis 14:18) and blessed Abraham.[/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What was Abraham's response to all this? What did he do? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2 And Abraham gave to him a tenth portion of all [the spoil]. He is primarily, as his name when translated indicates, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, which means king of peace.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Abraham tithed on the spoils of war to Melchizedek, whom I believe, is the pre-incarnate Christ. No one told Abraham to tithe. There was no law requiring Abraham to tithe. There was no sermon encouraging Abraham to tithe. So, why did he tithe?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The answer is simple: He tithed because he was blessed by God. He did not tithe to get blessed by God. He was blessed by God first, then he tithed out of the gratitude of his heart. His tithing was a response to God's grace and goodness. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Today, we tithe not to get blessed by God, but because we know that we are already greatly blessed by God. While we were yet sinners, God sent His beloved Son to die a cruel death for us. His Son took our sins on the cross, so that we can take His righteousness and be seated with Him in heavenly places at the right hand of the Father. Jesus took our beating, so that we can take His blessings.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So like Abraham, we tithe because God has blessed us with His Son, and with Him, every spiritual blessing and all good things to enjoy. Our tithing is therefore a response to God's grace -- His underserved, unmerited favour -- poured out onto us and into us.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And when we tithe with this spirit, God blesses us some more. Now, He does not bless us some more because we earned it by tithing, but because any good father would find every excuse to bless his children! God loves to bless us, and He has every reason and right to bless us because Jesus' perfect sacrifice has so pleased Him and opened the floodgates of His blessings. [/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Best of all, we have a blood-bought right to God's blessings because Christ has qualified us and made us joint-heirs with Him! He has clothed us with His very own righteousness, so that His Father who is now our Father, treats us the same way He treats His Son![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3 Without [record of] father or mother or ancestral line, neither with beginning of days nor ending of life, but, resembling the Son of God, he continues to be a priest without interruption and without successor.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mechizedek is desribed as "priest of the Most High God" (Genesis 14:18). He is also described as "king of righteousness" and "king of peace" (verse 2). He has no father or mother or ancestrial line, no birth or death, but continues to be a priest of God forever. While not everyone may agree that he is the pre-incarnate Christ, all can agree that he is a type of Christ.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Whether he is the pre-incarnate Christ or just a type of Christ, one should ask this question: Is he representative of the Christ who walked the earth (pre-cross), or of the Christ who is today ascended (post-cross)? In other words, did Abraham tithe to a pre- or post-cross Christ? Because if Abraham tithed to a post-cross Christ, then tithing is still applicable today.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The answer is obviously the second -- post-cross. For one, our High Priest, Jesus, who is at the Father's right hand today, is of the Mechizedek priesthood order that lasts forever (verse 17). [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Secondly, the bread and the wine, which represents the Holy Communion, speaks of the new covenant and the finished work of Christ. [/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thirdly, the title "king of righteousness" speaks of righteousness by faith which came through Christ, not by the law which came through Moses. Finally, the title "king of peace" speaks of the gospel of peace, which says that our sins are forgiven, and we have peace with God and the peace of God bequeathed to us by Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4 Now observe and consider how great [a personage] this was to whom even Abraham the patriarch gave a tenth [the topmost or the pick of the heap] of the spoils.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Melchizedek is considered a great man because Abraham -- the patriach whom the Jews greatly respect -- tithed to him. You don't tithe to someone unless you consider him greater than you. Also, Mechizedek blessed Abraham, showing us that he is greater than Abraham because the lesser is always blessed by the greater (verse 7).[/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So today, when you bring your tithe to Jesus, the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, you are acknowledging how great Jesus really is to you. You are not just paying lip service when you say: "How great thou art!" [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5 And it is true that those descendants of Levi who are charged with the priestly office are commanded in the Law to take tithes from the people--which means, from their brethren--though these have descended from Abraham.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6 But this person who has not their Levitical ancestry received tithes from Abraham [himself] and blessed him who possessed the promises [of God].[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In these two verses, Paul compares tithing under law (Levitical priesthood) with tithing before the law or under grace (Melchizedek priesthood). This is interesting because when anti-tithing folks are told that Abraham tithed pre-law or under grace, they will argue that it was not a proper tithe because Abraham tithed on the spoils of war and did it only once (there is no record of Abraham tithing again). [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In other words, they say that today, people get a salary, not spoils of war from some battle they fought and won with swords and clubs, so they cannot tithe on their salary because it is not the same as the spoils of war. They also say that Abraham did not tithe regularly, so his example cannot be used to support regular weekly or monthly tithing today. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Well, as far as Paul was concerned, Abraham's tithe was a proper tithe, otherwise, he would not have compared it to the Levitical tithe because he would then be comparing apples and oranges, so to speak. Paul even says that Levi payed tithes through Abraham because he was in Abraham's loins when the patriarch tithed to Melchizedek (verse 9-10). Should not the anti-tithing folks come against Paul and say, "Wait a minute Paul, how can you say all that since Abraham's tithe was not the same as Levi's tithe?"[/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So Paul shows us that a tithe is a tithe, whether it is the spoils of war (Abrahamic), livestock and grain (Levitical) or your salary in US dollars (modern). A tithe is a tithe, whether it is done once, weekly, monthly or yearly. It is really quite silly to say that tithing is not for today using the argument that the Bible does not talk about "salaries" or "US dollars", but only "spoils of war", and "livestock" and "grain". One might as well argue that preaching via the TV, radio or Internet today should not be done because the Bible does not talk about the early church preaching through those media![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]7 Yet it is beyond all contradiction that it is the lesser person who is blessed by the greater one.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]8 Furthermore, here [in the Levitical priesthood] tithes are received by men who are subject to death; while there [in the case of Melchizedek], they are received by one of whom it is testified that he lives [perpetually].[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Anti-tithing folks who keep saying that we are no longer under the Levitical tithe don't seem to understand that Christians who tithe are not tithing under the Levitical priesthood in the first place. They don't seem to understand that Christians who tithe are, like Abraham, doing it under the Melchizedek priesthood, which is the High Priesthood of the ascended Christ of the new covenant.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In verse 8, the phrase, "they are received by one of whom it is testified that he lives [perpetually]" is interesting. Who lives forever today? Is it not Christ who has risen from the grave, and who is alive today and forever? Is it not this immortal High Priest after the order of Melchizedek who receives our tithes today? We may tithe to our local church, where mortal men receive the tithes, but in truth, it is Christ who sees it and receives it from us.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So when we tithe to Him today, we are in effect, saying that He is alive! We are testifying that He lives! Forever![/FONT]
What a great post! :clap: What great teaching! You took a lot of time, and presented this so well. Thank you. You've blessed many in doing so, any who come here to read.

I agree with you wholly. One thing that struck me as I was reading is not only the greatness of Melchizadek, which is obvious, but also the greatness of Abraham. He was a mighty man of his day, had an army of 318 that took on a great battle in which they were out-numbered, and won. And here is this great man tithing to a greater One. God dropped in my heart just then how we as kings and priests, more specifically kings, honor Him with the tithe. It is a very holy transaction occurring as we tithe. Not only is the tithe holy, but the tithing of it is.

My husband and I always take time to pray over our tithe at home. I refuse to plunk it in the bucket with a quickly breathed prayer, only said at Pastor' leading. As soon as I write the check, I'm looking for my husband to see when he is available to pray, and we lay hands on it, and present it to the Lord. Then we take it to church.

It is a joy to present it to the Lord. I want to do this as soon as possible. You know, I like God to speedily answer my prayers! I want to hurry up and give it to Him because I love Him. Come to think of it, I don't like to delay in anything when it comes to the Lord! I want to be quick to respond to every leading of the Spirit, and of course, obedience to the Word.

Sorry, I'm rambling a bit, getting off topic. What can I say, this DiscipleWhomJesus Loves has me charged! ^_^

Come to think of it, we have been slightly off topic anyway. It has been about tithes in general, which has been great. Lots of good stuff here!
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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What a great post! :clap: What great teaching! You took a lot of time, and presented this so well. Thank you. You've blessed many in doing so, any who come here to read.

First, to DiscipleWhomJesusLoves, I want to agree with Cindy here. This was an excellent post. I am reading it and digesting it :yum:. I have much to agree with in your post, and much to comment on (you knew that, though, didn't you? ;) )

Second, Cindy:
My husband and I always take time to pray over our tithe at home. I refuse to plunk it in the bucket with a quickly breathed prayer, only said at Pastor' leading. As soon as I write the check, I'm looking for my husband to see when he is available to pray, and we lay hands on it, and present it to the Lord. Then we take it to church.

It is a joy to present it to the Lord.
This is wonderful !! Everyone should read and re-read this quote until it sinks in.

Whether you believe in the mandatory tithe, or you believe that it isn't 10% but generous giving, you should always, always, always write that check at home and pray over it. Never, never, never respond to a preacher or a visiting evangelist/teacher's emotional plea for money. Any giving (tithe or otherwise) should always be thought out and prayed over. Look for the Lord's leading (not that you are asking Him for a number, but rather a leading in how you should give).

Whether we agree in the nature of the giving, Cindy, I can see that you joyously give to the Lord and that blesses my heart tremendously.

In His Love
Bob

ps: DWJL I will be back shortly. I'm sure you're overjoyed. :swoon:
 
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{ My husband and I always take time to pray over our tithe at home. I refuse to plunk it in the bucket with a quickly breathed prayer, only said at Pastor' leading. As soon as I write the check, I'm looking for my husband to see when he is available to pray, and we lay hands on it, and present it to the Lord. Then we take it to church.}

Thanks Cindy, I'm glad you caught the 'spirit' of it. I think sometimes it's more impt to see what the spirit of a message is (rather than split hairs on the nitty-gritty). Is the message you are hearing Christ-exalting? Does it promote Christ and His finished work at the cross? Is it wisdom from above that is pure and easy to entreat. Or is it man-exalting? Does it bring fear, bondage etc.

And yes, it's wonderful that you and your husband pray over your tithes b4 you put them into the box. I do pray over my tithe before I drop it in the box, but, usu. on my own and not with my wife. :)
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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Hebrews 7

ok. I've digested what you wrote. I thought that overall it was well stated, but misapplied. Even if I were a tithe supporter, I would cry foul here.

Hebrews 7 is not about the tithe anymore than Genesis 1 is about "firmament" (it's mentioned in that short chapter 7 times).

Hebrews 7 is about the priesthood and the shadow that it was to Jesus, who is our High Priest. In your commentary you progress as if this is a storyline of Abraham meeting Melchizedek. If that were the case, then the last half of the chapter is out of place. In fact, chapters 5, 6, last half of 7, 8 and 9 would all be out of place. (Remember that Hebrews is a letter that was written without chapter and verse references. It must all flow together where there is consistency of topic, such as chapter 5-10 of Hebrews.)


But if we take scripture in context, chapter 5 talks of the priest and how he offers sacrifices for sins. It is part of what the tithe was all about: 10% of the Israelite harvest was to go to the Levite priests; they in turn tithed 10% to Aaron, the High Priest (see Num 18:21-28). And Christ was made Hight Priest by the Father according to the order of Melchizedek.
Hebrews 6:19
which enters the Presence behind the veil, 20where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
So in chapter 6 we see that Jesus was the High Priest, who could enter into the Holy of Holies. This He did to forgive our sins. This is all about priesthood.


Then we move into chapter 7.
Hebrews 7:1
Melchizedek is the king of Salem, a priest (not of the order of Levi)

Melchizedek is king of Salem, a priest. Abraham (then Abram) honored him as a king (not as a god). This was common in his day if you study Jewish history.
Hebrews 7:8
8Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.

Since importunity made reference to "receive" being present tense, I'll touch on it here. Simply that God (Jesus) receives them, the portion that ultimately was sacrificed (and wasn't food for the priest). Further, "recieve" is indeed present tense in the Greek. Present tense (in Paul's day--see next paragraph), active voice (the men --Levites--did the receiving) and indicative mood (meaning it is a statement of fact); Juxtapose that with Matt 18:5 here:
Matthew 18:4-5
4"Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5"Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.
In Matt 18:5 the word receives is aorist tense (voice:middle deponent - pretty much means active; mood:subjunctive - means possibility) which is what Paul would have used in Hebrews is the receiving was going on today; aorist tense, which there is no direct English equivalent, can be best thought of as being without regard for past, present or future. It is like a picture from which you could not tell when it was taken. Greek present tense, though, used in Hebrews 7:8 means that it is present at the time of the speaker, Paul. Note that this alone does not mean that it could not be for today; but especially given the context of the priesthood being left behind, the aorist tense would have been the correct choice if that phrase was to be understood to stand out and carry forward.

Hebrews 7:14-17
14For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. 15And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. 17For He testifies: "You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek."
Our Lord arose from Judah, not a tribe through which the priesthood came. Jesus was in the likeness of Melchizedek, (Melchizedek is not Jesus -- this is similar to how we were made in the likeness of God, but we are not God). Jesus is High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek, meaning He is not of the Levitical priesthood which verse 11 tells us does not lead to perfection.​



Again, the chapter continues in a subject of priesthood. It talks of what the duty of the priest was, in taking the tithe, but the focus is on the sacrifice that was made from the given sacrificial items. All pointing to the cross and the sacrifice that our High Priest made there.
Hebrews 7:22-27
Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant. 23Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. 24But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. 26For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.​
So we see that Jesus has an unchangeable priesthood (again with priesthood), He makes intercession and does not need to sacrifice daily, as the shadow did. This chapter is ALL about the priesthood, its duties, and its abolishment since we now have a High Priest who no longer does those duties daily.


Then this spills over into chapter 8
Hebrews 8:12
12"For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."
with the ulitmate declaration that our sins are washed away, never to be remembered, never to have to be atoned by another sacrifice. The requirements (all of them) are gone. It is now a Gospel of Grace, not one of works and requirements.

Jesus is merciful to ... [our] sins and He will remember no more. Now if the holy portion of the tithe was a daily sacrifice for the sins of the people, what sacrifice need be made any longer? Your sins are gone. There is no longer a sacrifice necessary. Jesus paid that price once and for all. The purpose of the tithe is complete.


And on into chapter 9 the context continues:
Hebrews 9:11-14
11But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Christ is the High Priest. The sacrifices, which were the holy portion of the tithe, was paid for by the blood of Christ. You can "cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God". You no longer have to perform the dead works of bringing the livestock to be sacrificed.

In context we see that from chapter 5 through 9 is all about the priesthood, the requirements of that priesthood, how Christ did away with all that and is now our High Priest. Chapter 10 is the fulfillment of the atonement and how the shadow of the goats and altars on earth were there in Heaven for Jesus to complete the atonement once and for all.

Then in chapter 11 we turn full attention to faith, and that by Grace. Requirements and sacrifice both are gone. It is the full Gospel of Grace.

In His Love
Bob
 
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It's ok ABlessedMan,

As I've said, it was my last attempt to convince you. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Once your mind is set on "tithing is not new covenant", then whatever I post, you will simply find ways to refute it. (I've posted here for years and that seems to be the way it goes *L*)

As I've said, tithing is a heart thing. It comes by revelation, not analysis. :)

Years ago, after I got turned on to Jesus, I felt an inner leading to tithe. I don't know why, I just had it in my heart to do so. Since I was a Christian from childhood, I never tithed, never had the desire, didn't know what it was all about.

But when I got turned on to Jesus, this desire was just written on my heart. At that point I still didn't know what tithing was all about, I just had this inner prompting/desire. But there was a problem: I didn't have enough money becos I had an expensive Harley to maintain. Yes, it was my dream bike and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I praise God for the gift and all the cool rides I had and how He kept me alive!

But I was willing to sell it so that I could begin tithing. No one put a gun to my head to 'sacrifice' my dream bike so that I could tithe. No one said, "Tithe or God will curse you!" I just wanted to do it. So I sold my bike (without tears) and began tithing happily.

At about the same time, I heard a cassette message from a pastor (now my pastor) about the benefits of tithing. (No, it wasn't those tithe or you'll be cursed msgs but tithe becos God has your best interests at heart msg) I don't think it was coincidence, but a divine confirmation that I was on the right track.

So pls don't think that I tithe becos some pro-tithing preacher told me I had to or becos I read some book on tithing. The prompting and desire came first, then the details and confirmation. :)
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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It's ok ABlessedMan,

As I've said, it was my last attempt to convince you. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Once your mind is set on "tithing is not new covenant", then whatever I post, you will simply find ways to refute it. (I've posted here for years and that seems to be the way it goes *L*)
That's fine. But tht mind set thing is true on both sides of the issue. I have thousands of posts in other forums; one such forum I debate with Reformed Calvinists and Arminian-leaning people, some with degrees in theology. These people are quite anti-Word/Faith, even to the point of calling men like Copeland and Hagin heretics.

I have found that forums like this will hardly ever cause anyone to change their mind on the spot. But I do find that the discussions shed light in areas for study that some people haven't been to. The other benefit is what Cindy refered to as a "lurker", or what I call a "casual reader" -- those who visit and read and never post. For the benefit of these people discussions like what you and I just went through are important: they can then see both sides, see where the logic faults are, and with prayer and the help of the Holy Spirit discern scripture and the truth therein.

As I've said, tithing is a heart thing. It comes by revelation, not analysis. :)
I partially disagree with your final statement. If it were totally true we could throw out the Bible and let revelation rule. But God gave us the Bible for a reason:
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
I'm sure you mean just this and I'm reading something into your statement that wasn't intended; but I've come across people who attempt to live totally by revelation, and some of the oddest doctrine comes from these people. You've already proven yourself to be able to comment from scripture.

Years ago, after I got turned on to Jesus, I felt an inner leading to tithe. I don't know why, I just had it in my heart to do so. Since I was a Christian from childhood, I never tithed, never had the desire, didn't know what it was all about.
Such "inner leadings", or any revelation, need to be backed by scripture or it may be nothing more than the "burning in the bosom" that the Mormons teach. Again, this isn't a dismissal of your leading, and there is certainly enough scripture to quote regarding the tithe, so I won't fault your decision.

At about the same time, I heard a cassette message from a pastor (now my pastor) about the benefits of tithing. (No, it wasn't those tithe or you'll be cursed msgs but tithe becos God has your best interests at heart msg) I don't think it was coincidence, but a divine confirmation that I was on the right track.

So pls don't think that I tithe becos some pro-tithing preacher told me I had to or becos I read some book on tithing. The prompting and desire came first, then the details and confirmation. :)
No, I don't think that you would follow just anyone; you've proven that.

So the details and confirmation came from the Word and associated preaching. This is more along the line of what I'm talking about. Yes, revelation but the Word has to back it up; yes, Word but the Holy Spirit has to lead in truthful understanding.

I take you at your word that this is all true for you; you would have to take me at my word that it is true for me also. So given that, then why would one Christian be led to tithe and another not be led? With exception, the churches that grew out of the charismatic movement teach tithing; with exception, the mainstream traditional churches don't seem to teach tithing. Why?

Again, I don't think that anyone will change their worldview from a chat forum; I just think that these concepts are worth discussing so that we really know what we think we know. Steel sharpens steel.

I do appreciate your comments.

In His Love
Bob
 
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[I partially disagree with your final statement. If it were totally true we could throw out the Bible and let revelation rule. But God gave us the Bible for a reason:
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is
profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
I'm sure you mean just this and I'm reading something into your statement that wasn't intended; but I've come across people who attempt to live totally by revelation, and some of the oddest doctrine comes from these people. You've already proven yourself to be able to comment from scripture.]
Yes, of course, you need both: The Spirit + the Word. As they say, "All Word you dry up; all Spirit you blow up, but when you have both, you grow up." Or "The Spirit is like a powerful train moving, but the Word is the track."

The Pharisees, like Paul, were all Word, I mean to be a top-trained pharisee like Paul, you start memorising scriptures every day at 7. But it was all head knowledge and no revelation, no Spirit. But when he had the Spirit, the scriptures came alive, and he was able to draw new covenant truths from the Old Testament stories, like how Hagar and Sarah represents law vs grace, Mt Sinai vs Mt Zion, etc.

My point is that the Bible says that we are to be led by the Spirit. It never says that we are to be led by the Word. Of cse, I'm not saying that we throw out the Bible, but isn't it interesting that it says led by the Spirit, walk by faith, rather than led by scriptures or walk by scriptures?

The Bible also talks about the annointing within us -- the Spirit's guidance. It doesn't say the Word within us will guide us into all truth. And don't forget the early Christians didn't have Bibles. They may have had the writings of the prophets and Moses, but I doubt they carried those huge humongous heavy scrolls where ever they went.

So I'm simply saying that sometimes it's more a heart thing (I'm not talking about personal emotions, mood swings and biases, but the Spirit's genuine leading, promptings, the desires that God writes in ours hearts under the New Covenant admministration) than a Word thing.

Too many people are trying to use scriptures (debating, analysing, splitting hairs etc) to arrive at the truth. No one here seems to talk about what the annointing within them says, isn't that interesting?
 
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{ I take you at your word that this is all true for you; you would have to take me at my word that it is true for me also. }

I always believe that as long as you really believe that this is what God has told you to do, and you faithfully do it, then whether you are sincerely right or wrong doesn't really matter.

We all should walk according to the light we believe we've received. At least there's honesty, sincerity and not hypocrisy there. And one day we will all see clearly when our Savior returns. :)
 
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