OK it knows pretty much what the conservatives and fundies and all that lot would say about such things but it bes really curious what the self-defined "liberal" Christians have to say concerning this subject. At what point bes one doomed for eternity? Doomed as in the other "d" word which might get reported or censored and which means "judged & condemned". Maybe we should break the topic down a bit:
i'll try to take a stab at it. been awhile since i've taken the initiative with such topics.
- Bes it possible for any living person to exist in a state of irreparable fall from grace (never mind how for now)?
don't know how to answer this one. if we have the ability to rise up from that fallen state, than does the fallen state exist or is it just a state of mind that a person holds, and nothing of a real spiritual truth about the state of mankind?
- If so, what sort of thing would you consider to put a person there? E.g. what type of sin or how often repeated that sin or whatever?
honestly, i would imagine sin wouldn't be issue if we can get out of whatever "fallen state" we're supposed to be in. i mean, if the fallen state is defined by sin, and if that fallen state doesn't exist or is no more, the next assumption would be, that sin would be non-issue.
- What signs or symptoms would be recognizable by that person to himself or herself so they would know that bes the case?
- What signs or symptoms might be recognizable IN that person by OTHERS tipping THEM off that this bes the case?
a peace of mind that they don't have to worry about doing wrong, evil, sin is all that i can imagine. recognizable to others? i can't answer that one because i'm not good at judging the state of others so i really don't know.
- Would being in such a state automatically include demonic inhabitation or control or possession or whatever you wish to call it? (Those that don't believe in such things or in demons at all naturally need not answer this)
for the sake of the discussion, going with the idea that demons are real and affecting us, how could they enter in our lives if we have conquered the fallen state, or if that fallen state is nothing more than an illusion?
- IF -- or rather, "given" -- a situation where someone bes in that state, would God keep others ignorant to the fact and/or "conspire" (so to speak) with others to DELIBERATELY keep or stop them from solidly confirming this reality to the one IN that state?
- If so, why would He do this, keep solid confirmation of that truth, away from one living in it?? For example, as a method of attempting to restrain what evil they might prove capable of performing with that knowledge??? as a form of mercy to the one who literally has no hope?? or what?
i'm curious about this one myself. i don't know how that would work, but lets look at the Bible with some of this.
Jesus appearing before women in the bible after the resurrection. during a time that the women were not thought high of, and not taken serious, what logical sense does it make to appear to the outcast of society only and not to the people that can make initial changes for the movement. i mean its fine and dandy for a romantic mythological story but it makes no sense to perform a miralce that would sustain the movement , show it to the outcasted believers, the down and trotted only and not the people that need it as much as the believers needed it, ie the Pharisees, the Roman Empire, the people of power.
all the times Jesus told people to not tell about the miralces he does. why? why would the Son of God make an attempt to hold back this state that He is in that can enrich the lives of everyone to bring healing, understanding, enlightenment? i mean if it is mere based upon the lines that he is trying to be meek and humble to fullfill the predictions of because that is how he is, that's ridiculous reasoning as far as i'm concerned.
so i find it odd that we see a couple of major beyond human altered states, states would rightly assume is not fallen, but yet, it seems like it is meant to be hidden from most, and seen and believed by the already biased believers.
so with this case that you ask in the question i would have to guess that yes, it would be hidden from the majority of the world. and that the only people that would know is that person that is out of that "fallen state" and whoever buys his story.
Would be curious to see how you all "tick" upstairs ... how you parse questions and ideas like these. C'mon sharpen that wetware & get posting!! Bonus respect for those that use Scripture; after all we bes talksy from them Xtian perspective on this stuffs.
well hopefully i added good contribution to discussion and hopefully i stayed on topic.
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