The water wasn't clean?

I don't think you will find any takers on this, because the premise you are challenging is completely unsubstantiated and has been formed for the purpose of defending a legalistic belief and promulgating the adherence of believers to said belief.

It is unfounded biblically and historically, therefore it is a doctrine of men and should be treated as such - with wariness at best and most likely with disdain.

I'm not exactly sure what you are looking for. "The water isn't clean" theory is obviously not a very good explanation. However, the Bible repeatedly speaks out against drunkenness (Galatians 5:19, Isaiah 5:22, Proverb 23:20,21, Romans 13:13, Ephesians 5:18), and it teaches that the sins of the Father can be passed to the son. So, in current American society 90% of the problems can be traced back to irresponsible parenting. Its fine to drink wine as long as never get drunk and make sure you don't pass alcoholism on to your kids.

I recall that drinking weak wine, beer, mead, etc was common because the alcohol killed bacteria and prevented people from getting sick. Around the 17th Century, coffee and tea began to replace alcoholic beverages because the boiling water also killed bacteria. The danger of contaminated water can still be seen today when we are advised to only drink purified water when we are in foreign countries.

Originally posted by ZooMom
I can't tell you how many times I have seen this claim come up whenever the topic of alcohol in biblical times comes up. "They only drank wine/spirits because the water back then wasn't clean." Can anyone substantiate this? What made the water unclean? What did they wash in? What did their herds drink? Why would anyone build/establish communities around an unclean water supply? I could be mistaken, but I thought that a fresh water supply was THE prime consideration when establishing a settlement. Not just in biblical times, but anywhere in the world at any time.

Any help with this?

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The water was unclean probably because it was from a well or something which was mixed with all sorts of impurities. Washing yourself in such water would be acceptable as you're not taking it into your system. Building communities around that supply would be perhaps - its the ONLY water supply around for miles; i.e. they had no choice.

The danger of contaminated water can still be seen today when we are advised to only drink purified water when we are in foreign countries.

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You can drink water right out of the taps in Singapore. I don't know about foreign countries but hey, I drink them all the time when there's no alternative.

Jag

i too had heard about the impurity of the water supply.. Actually that makes sense.....they bathed in open pools.....after 100's of plp bathing in the same water it's got to be nasty. They did not have any kind of purification systems back then.....ha, no technology?

I'll take a crack at this one, as a civil engineer, I know a little about water, and the purification process. 

 

While I don't know of any biblical reference, I can promise you that water quality was an issue.  Look at any 3rd world country today.  In some areas of Africa, infant mortality is as high as 30%, and the main cause of death is dissentery from untreated water.  The list of diseases that can be passed through contaminated water is long and deadly.  the water that comes out of your tap has gone through INCREDIBLE amounts of treatment to keep you from getting sick. 

 

The unclean water explanation is more of a historical assumption than a biblical fact.  The bible does offer that a bit of wine is OK, but addiction or drunkeness is a sin.  The use of it to get a buzz would be a sin as the bible tells us quite often to be sober minded.  We are told that a little wine is good for the stomach and we have learned in modern times that a bit of wine is also good for the heart.

Due to lack of refridgeration in those days fruit juice would spoil.  Wine, since it has been properly fermented would last longer and travel better.  This is not written in the bible, it is more a matter of common sense.  Therefore it would travel better than juice and the alcohol would keep bacteria from growing as might happen with water carried in travels.

This is just my 2 cents.  The only thing i couyld back up with scripture would be the sin involved in it's abuse and a little wine is good for the stomach.

Originally posted by I can eat 50 eggs
I'll take a crack at this one, as a civil engineer, I know a little about water, and the purification process. 

 

While I don't know of any biblical reference, I can promise you that water quality was an issue.  Look at any 3rd world country today.  In some areas of Africa, infant mortality is as high as 30%, and the main cause of death is dissentery from untreated water.  The list of diseases that can be passed through contaminated water is long and deadly.  the water that comes out of your tap has gone through INCREDIBLE amounts of treatment to keep you from getting sick. 

 

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Can you really eat 50 eggs?

never tried, it's from the movie "cool hand luke" which I usually use as a screen name, but someone already had it here.

Originally posted by ZooMom
I can't tell you how many times I have seen this claim come up whenever the topic of alcohol in biblical times comes up. "They only drank wine/spirits because the water back then wasn't clean." Can anyone substantiate this? What made the water unclean? What did they wash in? What did their herds drink? Why would anyone build/establish communities around an unclean water supply? I could be mistaken, but I thought that a fresh water supply was THE prime consideration when establishing a settlement. Not just in biblical times, but anywhere in the world at any time.

Any help with this?

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Agricultural and urban developments can quickly pollute surface and groundwater. And any cities upstream would pollutet he water for everyone down stream. Clean water was a continuing problem for people in the middle east, as it still is to this day. The Romans and Jews built huge cisterns to store rainwater to supply the needs of most of the towns. Some of these cisterns still exist and still hold water, thousands of CF of it. And the surface water in the middle east is prone to contain human parasites that will make you quite sick.

It only takes one barn full of animals to make a stream undrinkable to everyone downstream.

In Africa today, I have a friend who is building drinking water systems to make clean water available because so many diseases are caused by drinking the wter.

Originally posted by JagSayon
The water was unclean probably because it was from a well or something which was mixed with all sorts of impurities. Washing yourself in such water would be acceptable as you're not taking it into your system. Building communities around that supply would be perhaps - its the ONLY water supply around for miles; i.e. they had no choice.



You can drink water right out of the taps in Singapore. I don't know about foreign countries but hey, I drink them all the time when there's no alternative.

Jag

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Off hand, I can think of a couple of times where the water was drank. 

Once when the servant went looking for a bride for Issac, he asked the women for a drink and she offered to give to him and his camels.

Also, Jesus with the woman at the well.  He asked her for a drink of water.

I'm sure there is more but that's what popped into my head immediately.  So the water being impure, I don't think is a good answer.

My personal opinion:  In this country I believe it to be a poor witness to drink alcohol.  We don't have impure water, and it generally is not a part of our culture.  And, scripture, while I don't know that it says it is sin, I believe it does lead to the conclusion of it being unwise.

I personally choose not to drink even when I go to the home of Russian friends.   I explained to them that God has told me (He has) not to drink and they understand.  I have yet to see them offended over it.

That was well water. In a lot of places in the ME, there are no wells available, they have to drink surface water.

But, that doesn't mean that I think drinking wine is sinful. Drinking too much and going home to beat your wife and kids is sinful. Drinking and driving is sinful. But having a glass of chablis with dinner, I don't see how that could be sinful.

Originally posted by lambslove
But, that doesn't mean that I think drinking wine is sinful. Drinking too much and going home to beat your wife and kids is sinful. Drinking and driving is sinful. But having a glass of chablis with dinner, I don't see how that could be sinful.

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It depends on what God has told YOU!

Since God has told me not to drink, for me to drink, would be sin.  

Since it seems to be an activity of question, we must each ask God what would be most pleasing to Him.  Then after He's told us, to do anything other than what He said would be sin.  Whether it's to drink or not to drink.

As a whole, I don't believe it's sinfull.  However, I also believe it to be a poor witness.  I believe it to be a stumbling block to a weaker believer.  I don't look down on anyone if they do or don't. That's just my opinion.

 

How did God tell you not to drink?

YOu can wash your hands in non-potable water. Your stomach is very sensitive compared to your hands!

Think about the adage you've always heard about travelling in third world places: Don't drink the water.

When we went to Saint Lucia, we were told not to drink the tap water, as it is kept in an unsealed cistern and would make us sick. Not even the locals would drink the tap water. But it was fine for showering and washing. We had to buy bottled water for drinking. It was imported from Canada.

And, if you read the book of Job, the oldest book of the Bible, soap has been around almost as long as fire. It's a matter of mixing wood ashes, animal fat and water and boiling it down into soap. A very old, very primative, yet still useful invention of early man. Scientists have found soap recipes and soap fragments dating to 16,000 BC.