How is Militant Islam as large a threat as Hitler or stalin.

oldbetang said:

I seriously doubt that Scandinavian countries have greater press freedom, citizen rights, freedom of speech, etc.. If the leftists in the US have their way (they have been pushing) then we'll see it. Canada is already there , with the Human rights commisions and all, but Americans have a significant degree of libertarianism. Not to mention , the First and Second Amendments.

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Hm. I am afraid you are wrong OB.
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=24025

Iceland and Norway on a shared first in press freedom.
Finland and Sweden comes fifth. Denmark 8th. The US
The United States comes in at 48th place.

Then have a look at privacy rights:
http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd[347]=x-347-559597

You are really not that free in the US OB. Nowhere near as free as you seem to think you are. The US may have held first place on that area some time ago - but it seems you have forgotten that time changes things. And Bush pulls things down. He pulled you from 17th place in regards to press freedom to 53rd in 2006.

faith guardian said:

Hm. I am afraid you are wrong OB.
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=24025

Iceland and Norway on a shared first in press freedom.
Finland and Sweden comes fifth. Denmark 8th. The US
The United States comes in at 48th place.

Then have a look at privacy rights:
http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd[347]=x-347-559597

You are really not that free in the US OB. Nowhere near as free as you seem to think you are. The US may have held first place on that area some time ago - but it seems you have forgotten that time changes things. And Bush pulls things down. He pulled you from 17th place in regards to press freedom to 53rd in 2006.

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Sweden placed 8th and aren't they the country that sends Christian Pastors to prison if they offend homosexuals?

Belgium? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImdNLRqZ8SU

All the top countries on there are NOTORIOUS for silencing anti-Islam people. The UK as 24 is a joke, there is a arrest warrant out for LionHeart for being Anti-Islam. Norway included.

TheNewWorldMan said:

Again, while I concede the 18 year-old age of consent idea is modern, and marriages usually occurred at earlier ages in preindustrial times, a man in his forties who rapes a nine year old girl is a pedophile, Q.E.D. There's no way Aisha was sexually mature at nine. Mohammed had sex with a child. That's pedophilia.

This is one of the reasons I believe Islam is incompatible with Western civilization. Apparently under Islam it's appropriate for a middle-aged man to have sex with pre-pubescent girls. Here in the West, that idea is abhorrent.

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You are wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precocious_puberty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina

faith guardian said:

Hm. I am afraid you are wrong OB.
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=24025

Iceland and Norway on a shared first in press freedom.
Finland and Sweden comes fifth. Denmark 8th. The US
The United States comes in at 48th place.

Then have a look at privacy rights:
http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd[347]=x-347-559597

You are really not that free in the US OB. Nowhere near as free as you seem to think you are. The US may have held first place on that area some time ago - but it seems you have forgotten that time changes things. And Bush pulls things down. He pulled you from 17th place in regards to press freedom to 53rd in 2006.

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The fact that both of those groups are subsidized by Soros raises seriously doubt as to their objectivity regarding the US. In addition, Privacy International also receives funding from the ACLU, which is pretty selective of what rights it deems worthy of defending. Having said that, there are many other issues of freedom besides the two mentioned. Freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of religion, property rights, and gun ownership rights, to name a few.

perplexed said:

Can anyone outline a situation were militant Islam results in the deaths of more than 20 million people?

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I don't have numbers, but the Jihad during which the followers of Muhammed attempted to conquer the world (and did conquer a large part of it) certainly marks those people as militants on par with Napoleon, if not Hitler or Stalin.

oldbetang said:

The fact that both of those groups are subsidized by Soros raises seriously doubt as to their objectivity regarding the US. In addition, Privacy International also receives funding from the ACLU, which is pretty selective of what rights it deems worthy of defending. Having said that, there are many other issues of freedom besides the two mentioned. Freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of religion, property rights, and gun ownership rights, to name a few.

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so because an organization has bias we should reject all information from it. So you are telling us that we should never watch any news?

484 said:

I don't have numbers, but the Jihad during which the followers of Muhammed attempted to conquer the world (and did conquer a large part of it) certainly marks those people as militants on par with Napoleon, if not Hitler or Stalin.

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We are talking about militant Islam not imperialistic Islam.

celticfan83 said:

We are talking about militant Islam not imperialistic Islam.

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The one often involves the other. Imperialistic Islam certainly involves military Islam. And military Islam often involves imperialistic Islam.

And it's been both since Muhammed's followers became many enough. The man was a mass murderer. That much is known.
I don't trust Islam at all. I don't trust Åsatru either, as it holds much of the same potential, what with dying in battle giving you a ticket to eternal partying in Åsgard and all.
I believe that in our post modern society we often forget that there is such a thing as an evil - or potentially evil - ideology. Even if it is held by millions of people. Sometimes we make things a little greyscale when they aren't necesarily. Oh, I know nothing is black and white. But there are still ideologies, religions and philosophies to avoid. And I honestly think Islam is one such thing. I know it's dreadfully politically incorrect and insensitive of me to say so, but that is my impression after reading the Koran, and doing some (albeit light) studying of the religion. It seems-to me- that it is obviously not a religion one is to expect to be peaceful or conformist.

celticfan83 said:

so because an organization has bias we should reject all information from it. So you are telling us that we should never watch any news?

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I'm not saying that. But we do have to be vigilant and ask ourselves , what was the purpose of the study and do the researchers and financiers of the study have an agenda?

oldbetang said:

I'm not saying that. But we do have to be vigilant and ask ourselves , what was the purpose of the study and do the researchers and financiers of the study have an agenda?

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That is contrary to what you said your pervious post. You rejected the study based on one name who is only tastily link to the study. and Soros might not even known that the study was taking place or even published. If you are going to say that he his personally responsible then show that link don't just assume.
That would fall under the category of "being vigilant" right?

faith guardian said:

The one often involves the other. Imperialistic Islam certainly involves military Islam. And military Islam often involves imperialistic Islam.

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Sure all empires have armies. But the army exists to protect and defend the empire.
Many on this thread(and forum at large) operate under the notion Muslims that take up arms do so for violence sake.
No matter how much you, I, or the next person reject their goals. We can not discount them or allow them to be part of the human collective of ideas. We know the result of trying to silence their ideas it is not pretty it never will until we divorce ourselves from the notion that there must be some sort of societal hegemony over other peoples and other ideas.

TuxThePenguin said:

You are wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precocious_puberty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina

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Outliers. The fact is the vast majority of girls do not pass through puberty at or before the age of nine. The fact that there are a handful of exceptions--like less than 2%--does not allow anyone to assert that Aisha was one of these exceptions. There was no reference in the Hadith to Aisha having early menses. There was a reference to her playing with dolls.

celticfan83 said:

That is contrary to what you said your pervious post. You rejected the study based on one name who is only tastily link to the study.

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You've read it wrong. I never rejected the studies. I merely pointed out that the Soros subsidization raises doubt as to their objectivity regarding the US.

Hey there celtic fan... you know alot about what goes on in islamic led countries?

You ever had anyone try to kill you before?? Do you think that a "militant islamic" guy wants you to die by his hand because he doesn't like the western influence in the world? Do you think they'll stop if you beg for mercy and forgiveness and conceed to their way of thinking? Well, if you do conceed, if you do bow down to allah, then yes... you're ok. If not... well then you'd better be glad there are folks out there who are williing to stand in between that islamic militant and yourself.

If you're at all interested... read up on what happened at that russian school that was attacked by "islamic militants." The Beslan school hostage crisis on sep 1 2004. That'll give you an idea of what they want to do to your kids. Mabye... you should read up on whats going on in Sudan. Or... you could just volunteer yourself to go stand in between that militant and people like yourself, so that you can better understand exactly what it is that they want to do.

oldbetang said:

You've read it wrong. I never rejected the studies. I merely pointed out that the Soros subsidization raises doubt as to their objectivity regarding the US.

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So your point?
I mean I could find a study from ASU(Arizona State University) Which was funded by this sub-group of Soros. The study would more than likely have bias directed to the group of professors which are going to grade it and less of Soros's. Why because the author is more foucsed on passing rather than supporting the money. If you are going to say:
Soros=bias=bad
then prove Soros was directly linked to the study, otherwise there are so many other filters which that study went though that a discussion about Soros is 110% pointless.

fieldsofwind said:

Hey there celtic fan... you know alot about what goes on in islamic led countries?

You ever had anyone try to kill you before?? Do you think that a "militant islamic" guy wants you to die by his hand because he doesn't like the western influence in the world? Do you think they'll stop if you beg for mercy and forgiveness and conceed to their way of thinking? Well, if you do conceed, if you do bow down to allah, then yes... you're ok. If not... well then you'd better be glad there are folks out there who are williing to stand in between that islamic militant and yourself.

If you're at all interested... read up on what happened at that russian school that was attacked by "islamic militants." The Beslan school hostage crisis on sep 1 2004. That'll give you an idea of what they want to do to your kids. Mabye... you should read up on whats going on in Sudan. Or... you could just volunteer yourself to go stand in between that militant and people like yourself, so that you can better understand exactly what it is that they want to do.

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I'm saying there is a conflict between societies. Societies when left devoid of the other have and do value things like education, dialog an other similar ideals. The difference is the prism in which these values are viewed. Less time should be spent in both societies demonizing the other and more time accepting there is more than one way to live.
So In a way I'm doing exactly your charge, expect instead of picking up a gun or a bible. I talk about what is truly important, because as much as there is a struggle between the two societies, there is an even more important war with the two societies against those elements which demonize and marginalize other human beings.

"because as much as there is a struggle between the two societies, there is an even more important war with the two societies against those elements which demonize and marginalize other human beings."

agreed. However... you said earlier, I believe on page one, that militant islam wasn't much of a threat.

That is simply a statement made from a lack of understanding and compassion for those who have suffered greatly at the hands of militant islam.

Furthermore... if no one is there to pick up that gun, and go put themselves in between those who would do others harm and the others that would be harmed, then a equally great evil has occured. The evil of the cowardice and indifference of a society simply because the call for help requires an immeasurable sacrifice and honest self evaluation.

I'm sorry... it was page three that you said:

"about as much of a threat as a box of kittens"

fieldsofwind said:

agreed. However... you said earlier, I believe on page one, that militant islam wasn't much of a threat.

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It is not, imperial Islam is, and is the response to the American Empire, which is just as treating to them as it is to you and I