Uncanonized Writings

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ydouxist

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I think we all would agree that the 66 books in our bible is the word of God.
What about some books that were not canonized?
The Apostle John did say


Jhn 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down,
I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

What do you think?




 
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Katana

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The Mormons use that one, and it doesn't mean that there are a million other books of Jesus that are legitimate. There are no more except what is in the Bible passed down to us directly from the Apostles.

However, books like the Book of Enoch, or Jasper, or other scriptures that appear to be referenced from the Bible itself, these ones should be legitimately wondered at. Ofcourse, I would not trust them, as it appears they were not as wonderfully preserved as the rest of scripture. But to be studied and considered, I think that would be fine.
 
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steven07

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This is a very interesting topic and it's too bad that there are not more responses.. but really I think it's good to wonder..

I think we're left with what we have for a reason.. I agree with brother katana above.. we shouldn't take them as heavily as the other books in the bible.. but I think they should be considered and studied!:)
 
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CatholicFlame

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Well I just would say that catholics have more books in our bibles only because of the seven removed during the reformation.

But as a side note, there are many many books that the church had to look at when it put together the canon in the year 396 AD. Of course when I say that tthe church did this, I mean, naturally, by the working of the Holy Spirit through it.

I will just offer this here
 
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Svt4Him

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Brothers and sisters..

Let's just remember this though.. when we get to heaven there will be no Bible;)

Really? Jesus said heaven and earth will pass away but the word of the Lord will stand. I tend to think there will be, and we'll all be amazed at how little we understood.

If every one of them were written down,

Notice the IF? They were not written down, but if they were, there would be a lot to talk about.
 
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steven07

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Really? Jesus said heaven and earth will pass away but the word of the Lord will stand. I tend to think there will be, and we'll all be amazed at how little we understood.

If every one of them were written down,

Notice the IF? They were not written down, but if they were, there would be a lot to talk about.
Brother..
Do you really think we'll be studying the scriptures when Jesus said the scriptures pointed to Him? I'm not saying this in a harsh way at all! I'm just saying.. why would we substitute the good for the best? If Jesus is the Word we have no need for the bible.. we can just talk to Paul ourselves or just ask Jesus about anything..! Now THAT'S something to look forward to!:)
 
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cyberlizard

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for a really good reference point, many catholic and orthodox bibles contain the apocrypha or deuterocanonical works, though most protestant bibles do not.

most of the time we like to think that someone our book (particularly the NT) simply fell out of the sky. Many know Jude quotes the book of Enoch, but what about other quotes and allusions in the NT (particularly Paul's writings which are loaded with them).

I will give one example only, in ephesians Paul speak of the weapons of our warfare. Where do we think he got this idea.

If you have a copy of the apocrypha turn to the book of wisdom, chapter 5 and start reading - prepare to be bown away, as he practically cites it word for word.


Steve

p.s. there are loads of these, there are others in corinthians were he quotes the Mishna to argue his case (for those who do not know, the Mishna is the book of the oral law), and the book of Hebrews is bursting at the seems.

The New Testament is a thoroughly Jewish book. Salvation is of the Jews and he is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah.
 
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Jesusong

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cyberlizard said:
I will give one example only, in ephesians Paul speak of the weapons of our warfare. Where do we think he got this idea.

If you have a copy of the apocrypha turn to the book of wisdom, chapter 5 and start reading - prepare to be bown away, as he practically cites it word for word.

I looked up Wisdom 5 and saw nothing remotely matching what Paul was stating in Eph 6:14-17

14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.
16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
NIV

The OT reference is found in Isaiah

Isa 59:17
17 He put on righteousness as his breastplate, and the helmet of salvation on his head; he put on the garments of vengeance and wrapped himself in zeal as in a cloak.
NIV

As far as the apocrypha, the early church fathers never accepted them as canonical.
 
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cyberlizard

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I looked up Wisdom 5 and saw nothing remotely matching what Paul was stating in Eph 6:14-17

14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.
16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
NIV

The OT reference is found in Isaiah

Isa 59:17
17 He put on righteousness as his breastplate, and the helmet of salvation on his head; he put on the garments of vengeance and wrapped himself in zeal as in a cloak.
NIV

As far as the apocrypha, the early church fathers never accepted them as canonical.

checklist

belt - isaiah (no), wisdom (no)
breastplate - isaiah (yes), wisdom (yes)
shoes, isaiah (no), wisdom (no)
shield - isaiah (no), wisdom (yes)
helmet - isaiah (yes), wisdom (yes)
sword - isaiah (no), wisdom (yes)

as for the canon, it depends on your tradition somewhat as to whether they are accepted.

here's the quote from wisdom [FONT=&quot]{5:16} Therefore shall they receive a glorious kingdom, and a beautiful crown from the Lord’s hand: for with his right hand shall he cover them, and with his arm shall he protect them. {5:17} He shall take to him his jealousy for complete armour, and make the creature his weapon for the revenge of his enemies. {5:18} He shall put on righteousness as a breastplate, and true judgment instead of an helmet. {5:19} He shall take holiness for an invincible shield. {5:20} His severe wrath shall he sharpen for a sword, and the world shall fight with him against the unwise. {5:21} Then shall the right aiming thunderbolts go abroad; and from the clouds, as from a well drawn bow, shall they fly to the mark.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]covers more than the isaiah verse (so Paul could have been alluding to both).
[/FONT]
 
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HephzibahBenJudah

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I think we all would agree that the 66 books in our bible is the word of God.
What about some books that were not canonized?
The Apostle John did say


Jhn 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down,
I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

What do you think?




I think some are ok for history of the period..but they weren't included in the 66 we have and the few I've read I can see why...let's just leave it at that.

IMHO if we get what's in the 66 books we do have and pactice being doers and not just heareers we will have more than enough to keep us busy for millenia to come.
 
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ydouxist

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Some books I've read that were considered by the early church are pretty bazaar, they were no brainers.
On the other hand you have the DSS. It's pretty obvious what the 1st century church read.
Multiple copies of Enoch {1st 20 chapters}and Jubilees were found.
Should they have been included??? I'm not sure, but they sure fill in a lot of blanks.
 
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steven07

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I think some are ok for history of the period..but they weren't included in the 66 we have and the few I've read I can see why...let's just leave it at that.

IMHO if we get what's in the 66 books we do have and pactice being doers and not just heareers we will have more than enough to keep us busy for millenia to come.
I agree with what you say here sister.. and this might be along the same lines but I think that we have enough of what's just in the GOSPELS to keep us going for the rest of our lives.. I think we put to much emphasis on the word and not enough on the one who wrote it.. but that's just what I think and I'm just a kid:p;)
 
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ydouxist

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If every one of them were written down,

Notice the IF? They were not written down, but if they were, there would be a lot to talk about.

I thought the same thing.
If
the biggest little word there is.
 
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