Abortion: Is Making it Illegal All Christians Can Do?

Well put Mark!!!!1

According to the CDC, the woman most likely to have an abortion is unmarried, under the age of 25 and white. So according to your argument, there would be more white babies available for adoption IF all of those babies aborted were given up for adoption or even survived to full term.

Would these aborted babies automatically have homes? There are already children needing adoption in the U.S. who haven't been aborted but who *have* been waiting for a permanent home for years. No one is adopting them--no one wants to take them home.

According to CDC data from 1998, 56% of the nearly 900,000 abortions are from white women. That leaves nearly 400,000 non-white babies to flood the system and wait for adoption--and I doubt that there are half a million families out there who are waiting for the white children who have been aborted (in addition to the white babies out there right now.)

The answer to preventing abortion lies in educating and empowering women to make choices about birth control before they become pregnant.

--tibac

Originally posted by wildernesse
The answer to preventing abortion lies in educating and empowering women to make choices about birth control before they become pregnant.
--tibac

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How about showing self control and keeping your legs closed/pants zipped up till you can handle the responsibility?

Not impossible

Originally posted by ocean
Bringing unwanted babies into the world isn't going to help. The mother will probably abandon or abuse them, and they will spend their entire lives in the system. Abortion is necessary until people either stop getting pregnant or people start adopting.

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THis is one of the funniest/most ridiculous/most depressing things I've read lately. 

Do you really think that any woman who wouldn't have had an abortion would abuse there child? Do you really think that all those people who are survivors of child abuse/neglect would have been better to have never been born?

Originally posted by Force
How about showing self control and keeping your legs closed/pants zipped up till you can handle the responsibility?

Not impossible

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Not impossible, but improbable in most cases.

Is anyone truly ready for the responsibility to care for another human life? I doubt it.

Empowering and educating women is important. A woman who feels that she is in control of her life and can imagine possibilites beyond tomorrow is less likely to engage in irresponsible behavior--including risky sex.

A woman who understands her birth control options is in a better position to choose one that is highly effective and meets her needs--reducing the chance of pregnancy and thus the need to even consider abortion.

Telling people to have self-control just doesn't cut it. Abstinence education is no education at all. When you understand how your body works and functions AND about the responsibilities attendent to sexual activity, then and ONLY then are you in a position to make a good decision.

--tibac

Do you really think that any woman who wouldn't have had an abortion would abuse there child?

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If I understand this correctly, any woman who chooses to have a child and not an abortion will not abuse her child. This is ridiculous because mothers do abuse their children--even children that they willingly and lovingly brought into the world.

Do you really think that all those people who are survivors of child abuse/neglect would have been better to have never been born?

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If you could choose between not adopting a child and adopting a child knowing that you will abuse it, what's the best decision? Should you go ahead and adopt the child and abuse it because it will "get over" it?

--tibac

Originally posted by wildernesse
Not impossible, but improbable in most cases.

Is anyone truly ready for the responsibility to care for another human life? I doubt it. ]

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You may not know what to expect, but you can be ready for the responsibility sure.

[Empowering and educating women is important. A woman who feels that she is in control of her life and can imagine possibilites beyond tomorrow is less likely to engage in irresponsible behavior--including risky sex. ]

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All this is about is self confidence, teaching someone about birth control has nothing to do with this.

[A woman who understands her birth control options is in a better position to choose one that is highly effective and meets her needs--reducing the chance of pregnancy and thus the need to even consider abortion. ]

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Notice you used the word REDUCING, havent you seen Friends lately?

[Telling people to have self-control just doesn't cut it. Abstinence education is no education at all. When you understand how your body works and functions AND about the responsibilities attendent to sexual activity, then and ONLY then are you in a position to make a good decision. --tibac

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Who says you cant know how your body works and still teach abstinence?   Its should be about teaching kids self control and paying the consequences to your actions......THINK BEFORE DOING.  Instead of well your going to do it anyway so heck here is a form of birth control (see: false sense of security) just in case.  Besides kids arent stupid they know where to get birth control etc.  Why should MY tax money go to free anything, it should be towards teaching them integrity, responsibility, self control etc. not free lovin.

 

 

Wildernesse,
Picture this, you go to work and are told you are no longer needed and they let you go. Now you are on unemployment and no longer puting the money into the economy that you once were and in fact are now a liability on the rest of us. Times are hard, like they are now and you haven't found a job in over a month. Can I kill you? Why or why not? I mean, you not productive, your a burden on the rest of us since you can't even feed yourself without my tax help right?? So why not just kill you so I can turn my head and not worry about it anymore. I don't want to worry about you forclosing on your house and car along with credit card debt. Your just an account number anyway to everyone else.

Or should I do two things. First teach you abstinence and next pour out my love on you just because you are one of God's creations if for no other reason and try to do the best I can to support. WWJD?

From Encarta 2002. There are 46 million babies aborted a year. 20 million in countries where it is illegal. 26 million in countries with legalized abortion. I don't care how we save these babies, but we must start and we must start NOW.This is ridiculous!

I was born in 1965, I was a surprise baby, (or a love child as it would be called back that day.) i wonder if i was born after 1973 would i be alive today??

that all aside... abortion is only a symptom of a problem, and that is sexual sin. as long as we continue to see causual sex has something that is O.K., we will continue to have abortion weather its legal or not.

my thoughts on birth control have changed ever since i heard about what they do.  i don't remember the details...but what they do is in some way...an abortion.  not always, but some % of the time, it can be.  it's all based on how the birth control pill or whatever works inside your body.  so basically...don't take a gamble.

OR, there are natural ways to keep yourself from being pregnant, and if you just go to a crisis pregnancy center, they will be more than happy to help you (or whoever).  it's the body's natural clock, and it works.  but i'll find out about what birth control pills do and stuff like that do, and i'll post it here.

and to those that are wondering...

in NO situation whatsoever is abortion right.  even if it's rape/incest, or if the mother's life is in danger, or if the baby is gonna die anyways, or if the environments aren't safe......never.  did God ever give man the right to take someone's life?  do we have the right to decide that the mother's life is more important than the baby's?  isn't God in control?  doesn't He care for the plants...so why wouldn't He take care of a situation like that?  even if the baby is sick...God has a plan for EVERYBODY.  if the baby is gonna die...maybe God will heal the baby.  if not, God still works miracles in other ways.  not our preconceived way, but His way. 

anyways, i'm sure you guys know that, but so many other people make excuses of situations where abortion is right.  and there is none.

and about the abstinence.  i don't think it's possible without God.  people can do all the education of abstinence they want, but without God's help, we might as well preach to a wall.  i know that temptation is almost impossible to overcome for some people, but that is why we need to seek God for this.  not try to overcome the temptation by ourselves.

i don't want to seem like i'm coming down on anybody who has had an abortion, cuz i'm not.  i'm just stating what i know...but we need to remember that we all have faults.  abortion isn't worse than any other sin...so we shouldn't hate those who do them.

okay, this is what i found.  i'll try to translate a little, cuz i'm not sure if i'm allowed to have certain words on this board.  who knows...maybe i am allowed.  but just to be safe.

there are 3 steps to the birth control pill.  if the first one fails, it tries step number two, and so on.

step one, ovulation is stopped (can i say that word?).

step two, the woman's cycle is altered (can i say that?).  or another words, ovulation is delayed.

step three, if the woman does get pregnant, the body will reject the baby, and the baby will die before it is attached to the mother. 

basically, even if there aren't that many cases (or there might be), there are chances.  you shouldn't gamble with life.  but step three is called chemical abortion.

Bluesubmarine,

Good for you for wondering if there's more we can be doing about abortion, other than trying to make it illegal

In fact there is. We need to put our attention towards making abortion unthinkable. If we educate ourselves and fellow Christians to make a clear and consise case for the humanity of the unborn and th inhumanity of abortion - even within the secular square, whether or not abortion is legal, it may become entirely undesirable.


To break it down, here are five things every Christian can do to help stop the killings:

1. PRAY:
- For pregnant mothers who feel trapped into having abortions, that they might hear the truth and find the support they need to choose life.

- For Crisis Pregnancy Centres who give support to these mothers, that they might become known and receive the donations they need to exist.

- For women & men grieved by an abortion decision, that they may find healing.

- For our government, that God might lead them to do His will.

- For abortionists and clinic workers, that God might open their eyes to the evil they are involved in; and bring them to salvation.

- For church leaders, that they might preach against abortion and encourage their congregation to support life

- For Christians, that we might have the knowledge and courage to speak up.



2. PAY:
- Support Crisis Pregnancy Centres financially or with donations of maternity & baby items. Encourage others to do likewise.

- Support local pro-life educational efforts Consider them in your estate planning & yearly ministry support

 

3. SAY:
- Speak what you believe. Get informed on the risks and dangers of abortion, the facts of fetal development. Learn how to effectively respond to common arguments for abortionwith pro-life apologetics courses like the book/tape offered at http://www.str.org[/URL'>[url]http://www.str.org"]http://www.str.org[/URL[/URL]] called Pro-Life 101.

- Display a pro-life bumper sticker / wear pro-life pin to initiate conversation and be a visible pro-life presence in your community. Be salt & light (Matt. 5)

- carry pamphlets of a local CPC, and fetal development info with you at all times. 

 

4. OBEY:
- Jesus’ greatest commands to love God and to love our neighbours as we love ourselves. (Mark 12:29-34) The unborn are neighbours we must love.

- your conscience when you vote. If you believe that protecting human life is more important than tax cuts or foreign affairs, then vote like it.

- God’s word which commands us to “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves” (Proverbs 31:8) & Proverbs 24:11-12

 

5. ACT TODAY:
- over 4,000 unborn Americans and over 315 unborn Canadians will die today from abortion. (1 in every 3 or 4 conceived)  Every day we do nothing is one day more before abortion is history - and  thousands of children killed that one more day

-Do what you can today, so that perhaps fewer will have to die tomorrow.--

. Kristine Kruszelnicki

anyone know how to get rid of those ridiculous meta tags that show up in the text when you post something from your web-page or from a Word document?  You can't see them in edit, and no amount of deleting before and after the lines seems to help. grrr

You can paste the whole text into notepad or other program that is text only, then copy it again before placing it into the post.

Thanks it looks much better now.  Except for the URL, but I can't be bothered to go back and try to fix that again.  Good enough

I have a detailed list of ideas that families and individuals of all ages can do to make a pro-life difference in their community.  (putting into practice the five points I mentioned)

I'll try to hunt for it, and hopefully post it later on.

K

Abortion is a sin, no two ways about it, right?

I agree with the above statement.  I also agree with the statement below.

Abortion should be legal.

Making abortion illegal is actually only a way to aggravate the problem.  The only way to stop abortions and spread the pro-life message effectively, lovingly, and compassionately is if you do not use violence to keep it from happening.  This means that pro-life evangelism is the only way.  I believe that making abortion illegal should not be a part of the pro-life agenda.  Instead, I think pro-lifers should focus on making alternatives such as adoption easier and more profitable for the one giving up the baby.  Maybe allowing mothers to sell their babies on the free market rather than the complex system of adoption agencies would help.  Who's going to pay for an abortion when they can get paid a couple grand to have the baby and give it to someone else who can't have a baby?

That said, I don't think the government should subsidize abortions (it is particularly cruel to make people who believe abortion is evil pay for other people's abortions) and I think it is immoral for insurance companies to pay for abortions.

Originally posted by caley
Abortion is a sin, no two ways about it, right?

I agree with the above statement.  I also agree with the statement below.

Abortion should be legal.

Making abortion illegal is actually only a way to aggravate the problem. 

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Try these one on for size:

Rape is a sin
Rape should be legal

Child abuse is a sin
Child abuse should be legal

Someone steeling your TV is a sin
Someone steeling your TV should be legal

Random sniper shootings are a sin
Random sniper shooting should be legal.


Sound ridiculous?  That's because it is!

Are you seriously going to tell us that you believe that abortion is the violent killing of another human being, but that these killings should be legal, and good Christians should not try to stop the law from allowing such injustice?

Where in the Bible do you find a backing for such a contradictory mandate?

Certainly not in the same Bible that tells us to "Rescue those being led away to death, and hold back those staggering towards slaughter." (Prov. 31:8)

Or the bible that tells us about how "the Lord looked and was displeased that there was no justice, but He was appalled that there was no one to intervene." (Jeremiah 59)

By all means, work towards better adoption laws, build better options for mothers who choose to keep their babies - they most certainly are needed and would make it easier for some women to not choose abortion.   But it doesn't have to be an either/or scenario here.  You can help build a more mother-friendly world at the same time as you cut off the evil alternative at its legal source.

In fact we must do this.  Polls that were done of hundreds of women who aborted, found that abortion's legality had a lot to do with how they viewed the act, and with their decision to abort.  Most didn't really consider adoption or any other option because abortion was legal and available to them.   'Abortion is legal = morality acceptable' is a common mentality ("if it was wrong it wouldn't be legal") .  In countries like Poland, where abortion was recently rendered illegal, support and interest in abortion (including the number of women seeking illegal abortions in neighbouring countries has drastically dropped!   Never underestimate the power of societal stigma. 

Furthermore, Crisis Pregnancy Centers exist in most cities across North America.  But every day thousands of women blow right past them into the Planned Parenthoods and Abortion Clinics.  Increasing resources for women may serve as encouragement to some, but there are many, who despite knowing full-well there are options through a tough pregnancy, really don't want help getting through their pregnancy -they want help getting out of it.   Making abortion illegal sends the strong message that abortion is not a reasonable solution, and certainly not one that our government should legally endorse!

Finally, as Martin Luther once said "The law can't make the white man love me, but it can stop him from lynching me."  We might not change everyone's heart by making abortion illegal, but we can make it harder and less encourageable for them to perform this evil act. 

I'm quite sure you would find it absurd to make rape legal and merely focus instead on resources to help men find sexual escape elsewhere (since after all, rape is still going to happen even when it's illegal).   If you really believe the unborn are human beings, like potential rape victims are, then you can no more justify tolerating a legal sanction of evil against them, than you can against those women. 

Kristine