We are not to hurt anyone for any reason.
- Thread starter Giver
- Start date
- Status
- Sep 12, 2005
- 5,991
- 249
- 89
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Politics
- US-Others
Please you are using Old Testament Jesus came and completed that Word. Are you trying to tell us we are to obey what David told his people instead of what Jesus told his?
The one verse from Timothy: Provision? Wow! Are you ever stretching for an excuse to not obey Jesus Word. You know as well as I do that Paul was talking about; food, clothing, and shelter. Paul would never contradict Gods Word.
(Matthew 5:44) But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;
(Matthew 5:39) You have learnt how it was said: Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.
(Luke 6:30-35) Give to everyone who asks you, and do not ask for your property back from the man who robs you. Treat others, as you would like them to treat you. If you love those who love you, what thanks can you expect? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what thanks can you expect? For even sinners do that much. And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive what thanks can you expect? Even sinners lend to sinners to get back the same amount. Instead, love your enemies and do good, and lend without any hope of return. You will have a great reward, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.
Upvote
0
- Mar 9, 2006
- 11,279
- 1,082
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Are you saying that the OT isn't God inspired? Jesus came to fulfill the law, not complete it. The law may be dead to us in Christ, but nevertheless it still exists.
Paul doesn't contradict God's word. God never says we are to allow real danger to come to ourselves and our families
Love involves correction and rebuke, does it not? To whom is your love greater, your family or the man climbing in your window with the intention to harm your family?
If you'd read the first part of this passage, it gives the basis of what the second part is about. eye for eye speaks of retribution/vengeance.
Unless you consider your family property, then I don't see how this passage applies. It tells us the right way to live, dealing with possessions, to not hold things against people, even if it is rightfully owed us. By doing so our reward is in heaven.
Upvote
0
- Sep 12, 2005
- 5,991
- 249
- 89
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Politics
- US-Others
That was to show you that the verse you quoted from Exodus 22:2-3, no longer applies.
Upvote
0
- Mar 9, 2006
- 11,279
- 1,082
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
It no longer applies in regards to our judgement. However that does not have anything to do with whether it is still existant. Why not throw the 10 commandments out while your at it?
Upvote
0
- Sep 12, 2005
- 5,991
- 249
- 89
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Politics
- US-Others
I am not throwing anything out. Just pointing out some of the Words of God that Jesus completed.
Upvote
0
- Sep 12, 2005
- 5,991
- 249
- 89
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Politics
- US-Others
(Hebrews 8:7-13) If that first covenant had been without a fault, there would have been no need for a second one to replace it. And in fact God does find fault with them; he says: See, the days are coming-it is the Lord who speaks-when I will establish a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah, but not a covenant like the one I made with their ancestors on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. They abandoned that covenant of mine, and so I on my side deserted them. It is the Lord who speaks. No, this is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel when those days arrive-it is the Lord who speaks. I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts. Then I will be their God and they shall be my people. There will be no further need for neighbour to try to teach neighbour, or brother to say to brother, Learn to know the Lord. No, they will all know me, the least no less than the greatest, since I will forgive their iniquities and never call their sins to mind. By speaking of a new covenant, he implies that the first one is already old. Now anything old only gets more antiquated until in the end it disappears.
Upvote
0
The Problem here is context. You take a few verses that agree with your point of view, and isolate them from the context of the entirety of reveled scripture, and you can make them say whatever you want them to say. You are correct when you say 'Our duty is to obey God'. But God's commands - as the WHOLE of scripture testifies to - are neuansed (I'm sure i spelled that wrong, my verbal vocab is better than my spelling) in that one thing may be right in one situation and that SAME thing can be wrong in another situation. Hence - Jesus says "turn the other Cheek" an yet he lets his followers (even his closest disciples) carry weapons desired to kill humans. Obviously, as someone pointed out earlier -'there is a time to kill and a time to die'. And there will be times where EACH of us may have to decide -"does God want me to kill here, or die here".
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Sep 12, 2005
- 5,991
- 249
- 89
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Politics
- US-Others
You just used a classic excuse not to obey what Jesus told us to do. I havent overlooked any of scripture. I didnt just pick out the verses that agreed with my opinion.
Jesus is God right? That makes him our boss. Well our boss told us: (Matthew 5:39) You have learnt how it was said: Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.
You say the disciples carried swords to kill people. Now all you know for sure is that some carried swords, and as far as you know the worst thing that was done with a sword was that, some ones ear was cut off. Jesus even healed that. Jesus also said to put away the sword, that to live by the sword is to die by the sword. After Jesus sent his Holy Spirit to his people they obeyed Jesus Word. Remember the Holy Spirit came to teach them everything. Until Satan through Constantine blinded the Christian Church; Christians were not allowed to serve in an armed force by the Church.
I know Im right, because Jesus personally told me that we were not to hurt/harm anyone for any reason. Also the written Word tells us that. People, who hear his Word, will be judge by the Word on the last day. I just wonder how it will be received when those people that killed try to explain their excuses to Jesus?
Upvote
0
Listen, if you feel you have a direct line of communication with the savior that noone else on this board apparently has, and that he has revealed truths to you that go beyond teachings using Sola Sciptura principles I have nothing else to say to you. I would not try to convince someone who believes God spoke something directly to them of something different. it's a waste of my time whether you actually did here God's voice or your delusional. Either way, I will NEVER convi9nce you that you are wrong. Can I ask something though about the swords? Why carry swords if you do not intend to use it? from my experience, holding a weapon you don't intend to EVER use in any circumstances is just asking for trouble - Esculation.
Upvote
0
Actually, that's exactly what you did. You harp on one single verse of Scripture over and over and over again without any apparent understanding of the principle being taught or the context, and you use that verse to beat everyone over the head with, talking to people as if all the rest of Christendom is just rebellious and spiritually obtuse. But sorry--no one is impressed.
Upvote
0
- Sep 12, 2005
- 5,991
- 249
- 89
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Politics
- US-Others
Jesus said those verses I am using, and no one has been able to show any reasonable reason to invalidate his Words. I am not trying to impress you. First I am just doing what Jesus told me to do. I also hope that my work will help heal the Christian Church.
Upvote
0
- Sep 12, 2005
- 5,991
- 249
- 89
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Politics
- US-Others
(John 10:16) And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd. (John 10:27) The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.
You cant show me any evidence that any of the apostles carried a sword after Jesus sent his Holy Spirit to them.
Jesus has been teaching me for over thirty years, and at times has talked to me audibly. He has sat next to me and had me open the Bible. He directed me to verses and explained them to me.
I am not a teacher nor am I an evangelist, my concern isnt to make people believe me, that is Gods job. I am just sharing as Jesus told me to do.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
GenemZ
Well-Known Member
- Mar 1, 2004
- 22,141
- 1,372
- 73
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
Interesting point.
Jesus almost always said throughout the Gospels the same one thing...
"It is written."
But?
What does Jesus say in Matthew 5:38-39?
"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."
He spoke of men's rules. Traditions of men. The Jews had been following an abuse of the Law which was transformed and distorted into a tradition to justify what their human nature desired.
He put and end to what they heard! Not, to what was written!
An end, what was said by men. The traditions of men!
You can verify it in Scripture yourself. Throughout the of the Gospels, Jesus was quoted to have said... "it is written." That is,when he was pertaining directly to the Law of Moses.
Jesus did not come to change the Law of Moses... (it is written)!
He came to check certain traditions of men (you heard it was said).
Jesus said we are not to change one comma, nor period (jot, nor tittle) in the Law!
For?
One word mis-used, can change the entire intent and meaning of the Law.
He did not come to change the Law.
He came to set right the bad traditions of men!
.
..
Upvote
0
Fair enough. I can't prove that the disciples carried weapons AFTER Jesus' Crucifixion. However, it has been demonstrated quite clearly, that his disciples carried weapons in Jesus' presence when he was in the flesh (and they we not used for hunting) and when asked about weapons directly, he did not say "throw away all your weapons" he said 'one is enough' for self defense.
Again, I understand that you have been hearing voices telling you the 'truth' that you have expressed so at this point I am not trying to convince you of anything either. Coming on to a debate forum like this and pronouncing that one has heard the definitive, uncontravertible word of God on a particular topic seems rather pointless though. It's about as productive as 2 kids arguing about whose daddy can beat up who. Once you say something like - 'God told me' the conversation , the learning through give and take, is pretty much over.
Upvote
0
- Mar 9, 2006
- 11,279
- 1,082
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
And you've yet to prove that Jesus told us not to defend ourselves. All you keep quoting over and over is the "turn the other cheek" which doesn't address self defense at all. Oh and the "eye for an eye" passage which deals mostly with misuse of the laws by the pharisees. It's documented that the pharisee's applied these laws to individual interactions when they were intended for the governing authority as a means of punishment.
It's good to have a relationship with Christ, but I hope you can verify you are hearing Christ and not the false one, as what Christ tells you will be completely and utterly verifiable through scripture. In doing so, it should also be verifiable by the context of the passages in which you base it against. If you are just looking through all of scripture for anything remotely relating to your subject, you can justify nearly anything.
Upvote
0
Times they do change.
Christ comes back with a Sword and if you are not with Him you are Against Him.
Rev. 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great.
19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
19:20 And the beast was taken, and with it the false prophet that wrought miracles before it, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped its image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone (sulphur).
19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which [sword] proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the Day cometh, that shall burn like an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts, that it shall leave of them neither root nor branch (nothing).
4:2 But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in The Day that I shall do [this], saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts.
4:4 Remember ye and return to The Law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the Statutes and Judgments.
4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the Prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the "I AM":
4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Believing lies leads to the fire.
Are you with Christ or against Him and going to the fire?
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Sep 12, 2005
- 5,991
- 249
- 89
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Politics
- US-Others
Yes Jesus will punish all evildoers. Jesus is God and God is the Lawgiver and enforcer. People are not his instruments of enforcement. His angles will be called on to do his enforcement. You quote Revelations and it is shown very clearly what his angels will do.
(Matthew 26:51-54) At that, one of the followers of Jesus grasped his sword and drew it; he struck out at the high priests servant, and cut off his ear. Jesus then said: put you sword back, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father who would promptly send more than twelve legions of angels to my defense?
You notice he didnt say he would have his followers protect him.
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
