Are Mormons Christian? (Moved from General Theology)

Are Mormons Christian?

  • Yes, Mormons are Christian.

  • No, Mormons are not Christian.

  • Not sure/Other/I don't know


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dragoniatiegre

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Thanks dragoniatiegre, I feel like I have learned something tonight. :)

I however will tell you though that I don't believe in the Mormon Bible and all of it's books. I have read the story and think...well, I don't want to offend you dso I will keep my personal opinion here to myself.
You wouldn't offend me. You've discussed the matter politely, and have maintained an open mind. I couldn't ask for more.

Thank you!
 
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Philothei

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You cannot be christian and pray to saints. You must pray to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. Worshipping saints is a pagan practice. Thus you cannot claim chrisitanity
This is according to who? We do not worship saints.... we ask them to intercede... and we are not pagans. Pagans are those who worship idols....we do not. We pray "with" icons.....we do pray in the name of the Trinity. Icons has been used in worship since the first icon that was a written by ST. Luke....

Asking for the intercesion of the saints is ancient...christian practice as the percecuted Christians had the "eucharist' on the tombstones of the martyrs... in the catacombs... studying history would help a little.. you know....


God bless,
Philothei
 
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Philothei

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Yes, He was Jehovah, the great I AM. He is the Son of God, existing before this world was. Jesus has always been the Christ, always been God.

As for Jesus and Satain being brothers, try to see it from our point of view; Jesus is the Only Begotten, the Son of God. Everyone else (Lucifer included) are God's creations. Since we view ourselves (all mankind) as God's children, albeit created, we see Christ as our Elder Brother. Since Lucifer was created by God (or under God's direction), he was our brother at one point as well. Then he decided to rebell, and lost that status when he and the 1/3 were cast out of heaven.

The "brother" connection is only in relation to the creator-createe status, and Christ's status as God's Only Begotten.
Christ was not created since he preexisted... in Heaven together with the Fahter and ...he was not the brother of Lucifer.... what a folly that is .... no where in the scripture one can find proof for such claims.....That is polytheism.... too.


You are way into the Arian heressy.....
 
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dragoniatiegre

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Christ was not created since he preexisted... in Heaven together with the Fahter and ...he was not the brother of Lucifer.... what a folly that is .... no where in the scripture one can find proof for such claims.....That is polytheism.... too.


You are way into the Arian heressy.....
I never said He was created. In fact, I said that He was the One Being Who wasn't created. And actually, the Bible supports the explanation that I gave. We just take the understanding a bit further. And I fail to see the polythesim.
 
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christianmomof3

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And who made you judge over my church's teachings?
I am not the judge over the teachings of your church.
The teachings of your church do not agree with the teachings of Christianity. That is not merely my idea, but one that is accepted by almost all of Christianity. There are many many books written and websites that explain the differences in the teachings of Momonism and Christianity and why the Mormon religion is not considered Christian. I am sure that many of these points have been brought out in this thread. Here is one such article http://www.beliefnet.com/story/101/story_10106_1.html
and a quote from it:

But none of this alters the fact that Mormonism is an entirely different religion. For instance, Mormonism believes in many gods, not just one. Christians believe that God is eternal and is a spirit. Mormons believe that the god of this universe -- like other gods in other universes -- was once as we are. God "progressed" in knowledge and became divine, but retained his body. God is married to a being the Mormons call "the Mother." The "Mother" is not the same person as Mary, who Mormons believe was impregnated by God physically. For Mormons, Jesus is God's son in a very different sense than that taught by Christianity.
here is another http://www.afcministry.com/Are_Mormons_Christians.htm
and http://www.carm.org/lds/lds_christian.htm
I do believe, however that there may be people within the Mormon church who are saved, regenerated Christians who are members of the Body of Christ. Only God knows our hearts and only He knows who are those who are saved.
 
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Philothei

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Beg pardon?
Restoration, Ensign (CR), May 1995, p.84).
"Let there be no confusion—God, our Heavenly Father is the Father of our spirits. He is also the Father of the spirit of Jesus. The Holy Trinity is not a blur, but rather three separate and distinct personages. Heavenly Father gave to His Son those of His children who would take upon themselves the name of His Son, demonstrating faith in Him by repenting of their sins and entering the holy waters of baptism and then going forth steadfastly in His kingdom forever.
Each member of this trinity is called God, and together they constitute the Godhead. As indicated, they are three separate beings, but they are one in purpose, and Jesus repeatedly testified of the unity existing among the three." (President N. Eldon Tanner, A Basis for Faith in the Living God, Ensign, November 1978, p.46).



This doctrine is not right... You believe that the Holy Trinity is "dinstict" thus separate ... thus you believe in Three separate Gods... and that FAhter created the Son... This is not Christian... that is not the teaching of Chirst.

Philothei
 
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dragoniatiegre

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Restoration, Ensign (CR), May 1995, p.84).
"Let there be no confusion—God, our Heavenly Father is the Father of our spirits. He is also the Father of the spirit of Jesus. The Holy Trinity is not a blur, but rather three separate and distinct personages. Heavenly Father gave to His Son those of His children who would take upon themselves the name of His Son, demonstrating faith in Him by repenting of their sins and entering the holy waters of baptism and then going forth steadfastly in His kingdom forever.
Each member of this trinity is called God, and together they constitute the Godhead. As indicated, they are three separate beings, but they are one in purpose, and Jesus repeatedly testified of the unity existing among the three." (President N. Eldon Tanner, A Basis for Faith in the Living God, Ensign, November 1978, p.46).



This doctrine is not right... You believe that the Holy Trinity is "dinstict" thus separate ... thus you believe in Three separate Gods... and that FAhter created the Son... This is not Christian... that is not the teaching of Chirst.

Philothei
Ummm, we don't believe that Christ was created, nor do we believe in three seperate Gods; Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost act as one. Our beliefs are fully backed up by the Bible.
 
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dragoniatiegre

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I am not the judge over the teachings of your church.
The teachings of your church do not agree with the teachings of Christianity. That is not merely my idea, but one that is accepted by almost all of Christianity. There are many many books written and websites that explain the differences in the teachings of Momonism and Christianity and why the Mormon religion is not considered Christian. I am sure that many of these points have been brought out in this thread. Here is one such article http://www.beliefnet.com/story/101/story_10106_1.html
and a quote from it:


here is another http://www.afcministry.com/Are_Mormons_Christians.htm
and http://www.carm.org/lds/lds_christian.htm
I do believe, however that there may be people within the Mormon church who are saved, regenerated Christians who are members of the Body of Christ. Only God knows our hearts and only He knows who are those who are saved.
Well, if you're getting your information from sites like that, no wonder you don't see any similarities. The quote you gave is a complete distortion of our actual beliefs.

These "countless" sites that you mention are mostly drivel, with no actual merit. They attempt to dissuade anyone from the Church by any means necessary, including a distortion of the truth.
 
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simonthezealot

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You decide, here is what they preach of the Messiah.

Jesus is a separate God from the Father (elohim) He was created as a spirit child by the Father and Mother in heaven, and is the "elder brother" of all men and spirit beings. His body was created through sexual union between Elohim and Mary. Jesus was married. His death on the cross does not provide full atonement for all sin, but does provide everyone with resurrection.
 
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Mormon Theology
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, known as the Mormon church, is a well organized, highly-controlling, aggressive religious movement that is out to convince the world that they have a corner on "the truth" about God. They use door-to-door missionaries, friendship evangelism, and slick TV advertising to promote their world view, as well as the Book of Mormon as "another testament of Jesus Christ." Some of their distinctive doctrines include the following:

1Men have the potential to become gods with their own worlds to rule
2Joseph Smith, not Jesus, holds the keys to the last dispensation
3People have existed eternally
4Adam was given conflicting commandments in the Garden of Eden and was suppose to fall
5The Holy Ghost is spirit, but God the Father and Jesus both have bodies of flesh
6Lucifer was the "spirit brother" of Jesus
7Christ’s death brought "universal resurrection" to all, but each man must now earn his place in heaven
8Couples married in a Mormon temple ceremony are married forever
9The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the one true church

A few things have been said that I would … reword a bit. If you want theology for the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (CoJCoLDS – I do not like to be called a Mormon), please go here. Click on any topic you want, and you will get a short paragraph on what we believe. I will cut and paste a bit out of it.

Very quickly:

1Men have the potential to become gods with their own worlds to rule

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
(Old Testament | Psalms82:6)
if you want more, please read here

2Joseph Smith, not Jesus, holds the keys to the last dispensation

We are the Church of Jesus Christ, not the Church of Joseph smith. Heavenly Father and Jesus came to Earth and restored the keys in this dispensation. Joseph Smith was just the first person they handed the keys to.
As a young boy in 1820, Joseph Smith wanted to know which church was true. As he searched the Bible for help, he read that he should ask of God. Acting on this counsel, Joseph went into the woods near his home and prayed. Suddenly, a light shone above him and Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him. When Joseph asked which church he should join, the Savior told him to join none of the churches then in existence because they were teaching incorrect doctrines. Through this experience and many others that followed, the Lord chose Joseph to be His prophet and to restore the gospel of Jesus Christ and His Church to the earth.

from Joseph Smith topic

3People have existed eternally

Immortality: A state of endless life beyond the power of death, which is obtained following the Resurrection. All mortal souls will eventually become immortal through the power of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.


Immortal / eternal means no beginning and no end. If God created everything, then God created evil. God did not create evil…. I do not understand how anyone could believe in a Loving merciful just God if they also believe in a God who created everything. I believe in a pre-existence.

controversy stems from the King Follett sermon. Not usually something to send investigators or non-members to read, but it is on LDS.org so I do not feel bad in posting the link to it. The start discusses the immortal intelligence.

4Adam was given conflicting commandments in the Garden of Eden and was suppose to fall

no – not conflicting commandments:

Genesis2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not [freely] eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

He did not say “Don’t eat it” He said “be warned, it’s not free – this fruit comes with a price – the price is your life.”

from here
Procreation was not possible for them in their immortal state (see 2 Ne. 2:22–25), yet Heavenly Father would not rob them of their agency by making the choice for them. President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Lord said to Adam that if he wished to remain as he was in the garden, then he was not to eat the fruit, but if he desired to eat it and partake of death he was at liberty to do so.” 19 In essence the Lord told Adam that there were two directions to go, each with its unique consequences—and that Adam was to choose which one.
.......
In contrast to most readers of the Bible, we believe that Adam and Eve both should be commended for what they did to bring about the Fall. We understand that without the Fall none of us could have come to the earth and the whole plan of salvation would have been frustrated (see 2 Ne. 2:25). Adam said: “Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God” (Moses 5:10). Eve likewise rejoiced: “Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient” (Moses 5:11).


I am grateful that Adam and Eve sacrificed their life for us - if they had not eaten the fruit, we would not have been born. - from another thread...

I will post in multiple threads - sorry such a long read :(
 
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5The Holy Ghost is spirit, but God the Father and Jesus both have bodies of flesh

We are made in His image. God is not some scary weird formless alien entity.
God is our Heavenly Father. We are created in His image – tells us what image He has.

from a recent general conference talk

“In the year a.d. 325 the Roman emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea to address—among other things—the growing issue of God’s alleged “trinity in unity.” What emerged from the heated contentions of churchmen, philosophers, and ecclesiastical dignitaries came to be known (after another 125 years and three more major councils)4 as the Nicene Creed, with later reformulations such as the Athanasian Creed. These various evolutions and iterations of creeds—and others to come over the centuries—declared the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to be abstract, absolute, transcendent, imminent, consubstantial, coeternal, and unknowable, without body, parts, or passions and dwelling outside space and time. In such creeds all three members are separate persons, but they are a single being, the oft-noted “mystery of the trinity.” They are three distinct persons, yet not three Gods but one. All three persons are incomprehensible, yet it is one God who is incomprehensible.

We agree with our critics on at least that point—that such a formulation for divinity is truly incomprehensible. With such a confusing definition of God being imposed upon the church, little wonder that a fourth-century monk cried out,

“Woe is me! They have taken my God away from me, … and I know not whom to adore or to address.”5

How are we to trust, love, worship, to say nothing of strive to be like, One who is incomprehensible and unknowable? What of Jesus’s prayer to His Father in Heaven that “this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”?6

The following scriptures attest to the fact that God has a body of flesh and blood

Luke24:39 – 43
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

John14:9..he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;

God has a face
Genesis32:30 …I have seen God face to face
Exodus33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

A mouth Num. 12:8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth

God has feet
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone
(Old Testament | Exodus24:10)

fingers
Ex. 31:18 (Deut. 9:10) written with the finger of God

hands
Acts 7:56 the Son of man standing on the right hand of God

A back
Exodus33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

A body
Philippians3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
 
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6Lucifer was the "spirit brother" of Jesus

Isaiah14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Revelation12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

This is what the war was about and how Lucifer became fallen
Pearl of Great Price | Moses4:1 - 4
1 AND I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

What would it take to "save" all mankind? It would require taking away our free agency. To take away our free agency we can be saved from ourself, but we cannot be glorified. Heavenly Father wanted something more than robots, puppets, mindless slaves... God was not willing to take away our free agency. Satan was. If you are now living here on this Earth it is because you have chosen to come here


– we do not remember it, but we have all fought for our free agency, and chosen to be on God’s side.

Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting:
The Soul that rises with us, our life’s Star,
Hath had elsewhere its setting,
And cometh from afar:
Not in entire forgetfulness,
And not in utter nakedness,
But trailing clouds of glory do we come
From God, who is our home:
Heaven lies about us in our infancy!

-William Wordsworth, “Ode: Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood,” in The Oxford Book of English Verse: 1250–1900, ed. Arthur Quiller-Couch (1939), 628.
 
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7Christ’s death brought "universal resurrection" to all, but each man must now earn his place in heaven

Faith without works is dead. Our glory comes from being able to stand on our own two feet – however we would not be able to do this without our Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. We believe in Faith AND works – BOTH together, not one or the other.

8Couples married in a Mormon temple ceremony are married forever

Marriage is a covenant of unconditional Love – until death do you part… love is conditional on death… some people see eternal marriage as a beautiful thing. If you do not, you do not understand Love.

9TheChurch of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the one true church

Would you go to a church that did not claim to be true??!!??
As for salvation, it should be noted that we do proxy baptisms for the dead so that all mankind – in this life or in the next – has the opportunity to dwell eternally with God. We recognize others have found truths, live righteously, and seek to follow Jesus as we do. We do not see others as having the fullness of the restored gospel though.


One more comment – there are worlds without number…
Pearl of Great PriceMoses1:33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

Please
just go to LDS.org or Mormon.org with questions and do not just trust information you get from chat rooms...
 
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Melbelle

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Ummm, we don't believe that Christ was created, nor do we believe in three seperate Gods; Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost act as one. Our beliefs are fully backed up by the Bible.
The Holy bible or the Mormon bible?
 
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Reminder: The guidelines of the Theology forums are clear that Nicene Christianity is the framework for discussions here.

If you wish to debate LDS doctrine, you may do so in the Non-Nicene Theology forum. Thank you.

Thread closed for staff review.

 
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