Upvote
0
Trinity? No.
- Thread starter JereReagan
- Start date
- Status
"My dear friends,
do not believe all who claim to have the spirit, but test them to find out if the spirit they have comes from God. For many false prophets have gone out everywhere.
This is how you will be able to know whether it is God's Spirit: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus Christ CAME as a HUMAN BEING has the Spirit who comes from God. But anyone who DENIES this about Jesus does NOT have the Spirit of God. The spirit that he has is the ENEMY of Christ; you heard that it would come, and now it is here in the world already" (1 John 4:1-3 Today's English Version).
Trinitarians DENY that Jesus Christ CAME as a HUMAN being. They TEACH that Jesus Christ CAME as God who BECAME a MAN.
Do Trinitarians have the Spirit of God? The Bible says NO! Those who PERSECUTE the Iglesia Ni Cristo are TRINITARIANS. Should you believe them? The Bible says NO!
Ed
Upvote
0
Alpha and Omega
The Trinity: The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit
Is the Creedal Doctrine of Trinity Biblical
A brief declaration and vindication of the Trinity
The following links provide information regarding Iglesia ni Cristo, it's founder, their doctrine, who they state Jesus is?, what Salvation is according to their man-made doctrinal beliefs, the control they adminster to it's members, their deceptive practices, and the claims of the founder, Felix Manalo and his belief that he is spoken of in scripture as a messenger of God/The 5th angel.
There is a considerable amount of data that has been gathered on Iglesia ni Cristo, much of it from their own publications and former members.
I believe it is well worth the time reading over the information regarding Iglesia ni Cristo, indeed.
Examine Iglesia ni Cristi
http://members.tripod.com/insiders_inc/
http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/i00.html
http://www.letusreason.org/igleidir.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~janchung/table_of_contents.html
http://members.tripod.com/~janchung/false_messenger.html
http://members.tripod.com/xcrusaders/angeleast.html
http://www.adeptsys.com/chrysalis/Pages/info/iglesia.html
http://www.nossumus.net/iglesyanikristo/lesson11.html
http://www.examineiglesianicristo.com/honesty4.html
http://thebereans.net/qa-realname.shtml
Upvote
0
LouisBooth
Well-Known Member
"Does it? "
Yes, it does.
"common sense "
Actually its not comman sense, its your attempt to pervert the trinity docterine. Ed trinity docterine says there is but one God. Three in one and one in three.
"Any RATIONAL man can SEE that the Trinity doctrine is FALSE!"
No ed, any rational person can see you're in the wrong here. Trinity is fully backed up by the bible while your ideas are not. Christ is and was God and that's what the bible says.
Yes, it does.
"common sense "
Actually its not comman sense, its your attempt to pervert the trinity docterine. Ed trinity docterine says there is but one God. Three in one and one in three.
"Any RATIONAL man can SEE that the Trinity doctrine is FALSE!"
No ed, any rational person can see you're in the wrong here. Trinity is fully backed up by the bible while your ideas are not. Christ is and was God and that's what the bible says.
Upvote
0
What's "three in one and one in three" Louis. You say that the Trinity doctrine says there is but one God. What has "three in one and one in three" got to do with God being one?
Tell me HONESTLY Louis, did Jesus COME as a HUMAN being or as God?
Ed
Upvote
0
LouisBooth
Well-Known Member
"got to do with God being one? "
I guess you just don't want to understand it ed, or you can't. God is one Period. God is three, period. Now that's what the bible says.
"did Jesus COME as a HUMAN being or as God?"
Both, that's what incarnation docterine is ed.
I guess you just don't want to understand it ed, or you can't. God is one Period. God is three, period. Now that's what the bible says.
"did Jesus COME as a HUMAN being or as God?"
Both, that's what incarnation docterine is ed.
Upvote
0
Messenger
Simplicity of Life
I'm not in total agreement with the Trinity Doctrine but I'd also never be a member of a "church" that claims they are the only true ones the only ones who have salvation. I don't believe the Salvation question is "Who is God?" Rather who are we? Jesus died for us that we might pick up the cross and carry it following his teachings but we are stuck at arguing who He is?
We believe in one true God and God told us to love one another and God sent his only begotten son to die for our salvation We are to give our lives to Him and follow in his teaching. Say just for the sake of not arguing Jesus is "just a man". Even if he was "just a man" God sacrificed him for our sins and told us to follow in his teachings and called him His only begotten Son and God said every head shall bow and God raised him from the dead and put Jesus at his side.
Let's look at it as if Jesus is not God but Jesus is God's Son and God tells us we must love Him. So we are lost because we are to have but one God and having Jesus also be God makes us have 2 Gods....NO! If I have an oreo cookie and you have an oreo cookie we have 2 oreo's yet one type of cookie. They are the same yet separate. Jesus does the will of his Father. If you love the Son you love the Father and if you love the Father you love the Son cause the substance, the purpose, the point, the "cream filling" is essentially the same. Now is my oreo/twinkie explaination worth making into a doctrine..No! I don't believe it comes close to the justice God or Jesus deserve and that is my belief on the trinity doctrine. I don't care for people calling God 3 in one and trinity. I don't need to figure God out. I need to do as I am told and be humble and follow in the teachings.
Jesus was the greatest teacher ever. Jesus did exactly what his Father wanted. Jesus was NEVER "JUST A MAN". Jesus obeyed his father and didn't sin and was placed beside his father. And just a man doesn't come even close to a discription for the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. NO....NO... ABSOLUTELY NO....JESUS WASN'T NOR IS HE JUST A MAN!!! I believe if it is either trinity or Jesus being JUST a MAN that God would prefer trinity. But I am glad those are not the only 2 chooses. I can choose to say I don't exactly know 1 or 3 being 1 or 3 but I do know 3 are for 1 purpose and if I worship 3 I am definately worshiping the 1 true God. Some churches have priest preachers elders what ever high members...you listen and learn from them but not because they are your God but because their messages come from God through the Bible. Jesus didn't speak against God the Father he spoke for God and the Holy Spirit does the same. Anything more than what I know isn't necessarily a lie but if I claimed to believe it in order to be accepted by other Christians I'd be a liar.
Love and God Bless.
Peace be with you and yours and to God be the Glory!
We believe in one true God and God told us to love one another and God sent his only begotten son to die for our salvation We are to give our lives to Him and follow in his teaching. Say just for the sake of not arguing Jesus is "just a man". Even if he was "just a man" God sacrificed him for our sins and told us to follow in his teachings and called him His only begotten Son and God said every head shall bow and God raised him from the dead and put Jesus at his side.
Let's look at it as if Jesus is not God but Jesus is God's Son and God tells us we must love Him. So we are lost because we are to have but one God and having Jesus also be God makes us have 2 Gods....NO! If I have an oreo cookie and you have an oreo cookie we have 2 oreo's yet one type of cookie. They are the same yet separate. Jesus does the will of his Father. If you love the Son you love the Father and if you love the Father you love the Son cause the substance, the purpose, the point, the "cream filling" is essentially the same. Now is my oreo/twinkie explaination worth making into a doctrine..No! I don't believe it comes close to the justice God or Jesus deserve and that is my belief on the trinity doctrine. I don't care for people calling God 3 in one and trinity. I don't need to figure God out. I need to do as I am told and be humble and follow in the teachings.
Jesus was the greatest teacher ever. Jesus did exactly what his Father wanted. Jesus was NEVER "JUST A MAN". Jesus obeyed his father and didn't sin and was placed beside his father. And just a man doesn't come even close to a discription for the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. NO....NO... ABSOLUTELY NO....JESUS WASN'T NOR IS HE JUST A MAN!!! I believe if it is either trinity or Jesus being JUST a MAN that God would prefer trinity. But I am glad those are not the only 2 chooses. I can choose to say I don't exactly know 1 or 3 being 1 or 3 but I do know 3 are for 1 purpose and if I worship 3 I am definately worshiping the 1 true God. Some churches have priest preachers elders what ever high members...you listen and learn from them but not because they are your God but because their messages come from God through the Bible. Jesus didn't speak against God the Father he spoke for God and the Holy Spirit does the same. Anything more than what I know isn't necessarily a lie but if I claimed to believe it in order to be accepted by other Christians I'd be a liar.
Love and God Bless.
Peace be with you and yours and to God be the Glory!
Upvote
0
Your belief regarding membership in a CHURCH is WRONG Messenger. Christ WILL save ONLY the CHURCH that he BUILT (Matt. 16:18; cf. Eph. 5:23). And NOT all CHURCHES today, were BUILT by Christ. Christ BUILT only ONE Church which he called "MY church."
By the SIMPLE process of elimination, ONLY a CHURCH that MAKES the claim that it is the ONLY true CHURCH where one may be SAVED, may be CONSIDERED for further evaluation as indeed the TRUE church of Christ.
To my simple thinking, a CHURCH that does NOT think itself as the one and only true church that Christ will save (Eph. 5:23) is NOT even worth mentioning.
Your belief that "the salvation question is NOT "Who is God?" but rather "Who are we?" is also WRONG. Why don't you go over to "Who will NOT be Saved?" thread and SEE for yourself what are involved in salvation.
FYI, when Jesus comes again, he will PUNISH those who do NOT know God and do NOT obey the gospel of Jesus (2 Thes. 1:8-9). Thus, it is IMPERATIVE that one KNOWS who God is and in the process, FOLLOW the teachings of Christ.
quote]We believe in one true God and God told us to love one another and God sent his only begotten son to die for our salvation We are to give our lives to Him and follow in his teaching. Say just for the sake of not arguing Jesus is "just a man". Even if he was "just a man" God sacrificed him for our sins and told us to follow in his teachings and called him His only begotten Son and God said every head shall bow and God raised him from the dead and put Jesus at his side.
[/quote]
You keep saying "follow Jesus' teaching." Jesus TAUGHT that he is a MAN and the FATHER is the ONLY true God. You can start FOLLOWING Jesus' teaching from here Messenger.
God and Jesus are NOT of the SAME type of Oreo cookies. In FACT, they are NOT even the SAME type of Oreos. ONE is God and the OTHER is MAN. ONE is spirit in state of being and the OTHER is flesh and bones.
Nobody can fault you for NOT caring whether people call God 3 in one and one in three. But if you are truly desirous of following Jesus' teaching, then be "humble" and ACCEPT Jesus' teaching that he is a MAN and the Father is the ONLY true God.
This would make you in direct confrontation with Trinitarians who believe that Jesus is ALSO God IN ADDITION to the Father.
[uote]Jesus was the greatest teacher ever. Jesus did exactly what his Father wanted. Jesus was NEVER "JUST A MAN".
[/quote]
What do you mean by "NEVER JUST A MAN?" Do you mean by this that Jesus was God IN ADDITION to being a MAN? This I DON'T agree with at all.
But if what you mean by this is Jesus was NEVER an ORDINARY man like you and me, I totally AGREE with you 100%.
God will NOT take kindly on people who ADDS to or SUBTRACTS from His word (Deut. 12:32; Rev. 22:18-19). God COMMANDED Jesus to SAY (John 12:49-50) that he is a MAN and the Father is the ONLY true God. Anybody who DISOBEYS God will NOT be saved.
Do their messages really come from God just because they read the Bible? For example, if these pastors deliver the message "that Jesus is God" because he said (and they quote the Bible), "I and the Father are one," is the message, "Jesus is God" fTRULY from God? Absolutely NOT! Jesus DELIVERED the CLEAR and SELF-EXPLANATORY message FROM God that: "he is a MAN and the FATHER alone is the ONLY true God." Any OTHER message CONTRADICTING this, is NOT a message that comes FROM God.
I honestly don't know what you mean. I recall that a while back, you INTIMATED to me that you DON'T believe the Trinity doctrine. Why the change of heart Messenger?
Ed
Upvote
0
Messenger
Simplicity of Life
I'm not good at this quoting stuff so I will put my response in Indigo
You keep saying "follow Jesus' teaching." Jesus TAUGHT that he is a MAN and the FATHER is the ONLY true God. You can start FOLLOWING Jesus' teaching from here Messenger.
Ok Jesus said his Father is the Only true God. But how do you Follow that???? I believe what Jesus said to be true. The TEACHINGS are how to live to give glory to God to love one another AND NOT TO JUDGE OR CONDEMN!
God and Jesus are NOT of the SAME type of Oreo cookies. In FACT, they are NOT even the SAME type of Oreos. ONE is God and the OTHER is MAN. ONE is spirit in state of being and the OTHER is flesh and bones. If that is the Case WHY are you concerned with what church you go to??? If Jesus is "just a Man" then who cares that the "man" made a church??? What you say appears so foolish!JESUS IS NOT JUST A MAN....JESUS IS LORD SAVIOR AND THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER ACCEPT BY THE SON. YOU DISGRACE THE SON YOU DISGRACE THE FATHER YOU CONDEMN GOD'S CHILDREN YOU WILL BE CONDEMNED! WISEN UP BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. PRAY FOR FORGIVENESS AND ASK FOR WISDOM BECAUSE THE CHURCH THAT YOU BELIEVE TO BE THE ONE IS BLINDING YOU TO THE TRUTH!
Nobody can fault you for NOT caring whether people call God 3 in one and one in three. But if you are truly desirous of following Jesus' teaching, then be "humble" and ACCEPT Jesus' teaching that he is a MAN and the Father is the ONLY true God. I DO ACCEPT THAT JESUS IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD BUT GOD RASIED JESUS FROM THE DEAD AND TOLD US NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER ACCEPT THROUGH THE SON. TRINITY SAYS JESUS IS THE SAME AS GOD AND YOU SAY JESUS IS ONLY A MAN WHAT IF THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND? IF JESUS IS "JUST A MAN" THEN WHY WOULD WE FOLLOW IN HIS TEACHINGS? JESUS WAS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. THAT IS A LOT MORE THAN "JUST A MAN" AND CALLING JESUS JUST A MAN IS LUDICROUS.
This would make you in direct confrontation with Trinitarians who believe that Jesus is ALSO God IN ADDITION to the Father. No wrong again Ed. I don't believe Jesus is God. I believe Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God. I'm not accepted by either of the groups. I'm not a trinitarian and I'm not whatever you wish to call yourself.
[uote]Jesus was the greatest teacher ever. Jesus did exactly what his Father wanted. Jesus was NEVER "JUST A MAN".
[/quote]
What do you mean by "NEVER JUST A MAN?" Do you mean by this that Jesus was God IN ADDITION to being a MAN? This I DON'T agree with at all. Are we God in addition to Man? If we ask for Jesus to Save us and we receive the Holy Spirit are we in addition to man God also....I Say NO! Can we ever become Jesus or better than Jesus?? I say NO....Jesus Is God the father's ONLY Begotten Son....this is more than Just a man. A prince is a son of a King is a Prince just a boy...in my opinion yes but in wordly thinking and according to the King the boy is a PRINCE. To say Jesus is Just a man...NO Jesus is the Only Begotten Son Jesus is Lord, Savior....If Jesus wants to be humble and say he is "just a man" that is different than me saying Yes he is just a man....NO JESUS IS MY LORD AND SAVIOR AND JUST A MAN IS NOT!
But if what you mean by this is Jesus was NEVER an ORDINARY man like you and me, I totally AGREE with you 100%. oops....I missed this part 
God will NOT take kindly on people who ADDS to or SUBTRACTS from His word (Deut. 12:32; Rev. 22:18-19). God COMMANDED Jesus to SAY (John 12:49-50) that he is a MAN and the Father is the ONLY true God. Anybody who DISOBEYS God will NOT be saved. I agree! But I believe the commands are to love not to figure out exactly what they consist of. Jesus is one with the Father in spirit and truth. Jesus is above me. I don't believe I need to totally figure out the rankings of the Father and Son they are both to be worshiped and glorified. The Holy Spirit guides us but all comes from the Father. But the Father placed Jesus at his side.
Do their messages really come from God just because they read the Bible? For example, if these pastors deliver the message "that Jesus is God" because he said (and they quote the Bible), "I and the Father are one," is the message, "Jesus is God" fTRULY from God? Absolutely NOT! Jesus DELIVERED the CLEAR and SELF-EXPLANATORY message FROM God that: "he is a MAN and the FATHER alone is the ONLY true God." Any OTHER message CONTRADICTING this, is NOT a message that comes FROM God. Agree. What I was trying to say is that some messages from church leaders are correct and from God. I belong to a non-denomination church and we can interpret scriptures ourselves. We don't have all the doctrines or paperwork stating we are the ONE True Church. One true church and one true God. Is your church only one building or many? Angels are not God but they are one with God. Jesus in that sence is one with God. We can worship the son and know by that we are loving the father. I believe salvation is in the heart and not the mind. Accepting Trinity doctrine and believing it is a mindful figuring out but loving Jesus and accepting Him is in the heart.
I honestly don't know what you mean. I recall that a while back, you INTIMATED to me that you DON'T believe the Trinity doctrine. Why the change of heart Messenger?
I don't believe in doctrines but I also don't believe in condemning those who do. Only they know if they are following God or the teachings of man. I can learn from others but my best teacher comes when I pray to understand and give my life to Jesus. Trinity doctrine is full of ? marks made to be absolutes and in my opinion not the whole truth. If you look up trinity doctrine you will find many and find that they change. I also do not believe in ONE True Church in the sence that you do. What if one never attends church but worships God through reading the Bible, prayer, giving one another out of love and compassion, visiting the elderly, sick and imprissioned...according to your "true church" do they not have salvation? I fear what your church teaches but I don't have the time or desire to check it out at this point I don't condemn your church I just question it's condemntion of others. Ed [/QUOTE]
Hello Bear
Originally posted by edpobre
Your belief regarding membership in a CHURCH is WRONG Messenger. Christ WILL save ONLY the CHURCH that he BUILT (Matt. 16:18; cf. Eph. 5:23). And NOT all CHURCHES today, were BUILT by Christ. Christ BUILT only ONE Church which he called "MY church."
No I'm not ....Your wrong!!!
By the SIMPLE process of elimination, ONLY a CHURCH that MAKES the claim that it is the ONLY true CHURCH where one may be SAVED, may be CONSIDERED for further evaluation as indeed the TRUE church of Christ.
They can talk the talk But can they walk the walk???No they can claim to be but they are a CULT. I am learning a few things.
To my simple thinking, a CHURCH that does NOT think itself as the one and only true church that Christ will save (Eph. 5:23) is NOT even worth mentioning.
I am going to write a Doctrine for you that shows a Trinity of Churches...except maybe trinity is the wrong wording. In my doctrine I will include Baptist, Luthern , Catholics, Non denomination, and anyone who will love and share the love in Christ. But NO demonic church which claims the church saves will I include. Churches are made up of people. Christ didn't make ONE church....okay so now you want to claim it to be Your Church??? I belong to a non-denominational church guess we burn in Hell according to Your Church! My lord and savior died for all who accepted him and LOVE ONE ANOTHER. WHERE'S THE LOVE??? You church is a building with man made doctrines my church is in my heart and soul I share the love of God with others and we come together to save not to condemn. We show others through love not hatred and claiming to be the ONE! I partially find it comical that anyone could believe that they have to have a particular denomination or a particular building for salvation but this is real and that saddens me because I fear you do not know Jesus and He will not know you.
Your belief that "the salvation question is NOT "Who is God?" but rather "Who are we?" is also WRONG. Why don't you go over to "Who will NOT be Saved?" thread and SEE for yourself what are involved in salvation. A thread won't give me the answers. If you are truely saved the answers come within from the Holy Spirit. Through prayer the impossible is made possible. God is love....God is all powerful...has all the answers...We are to love God and worship God we don't have to totally figure out the deminsions of God. Who we are is important....as far as are we good or bad....if we are bad we are not doing what it takes for salvation following the teachings loving being humble and letting the holy spirit guide us if we are "good" the goodness comes from God not us. We are all sinners but the ones who have salvation are the ones who accept Jesus as their Lord and savior and pick up the cross and follow.
FYI, when Jesus comes again, he will PUNISH those who do NOT know God and do NOT obey the gospel of Jesus (2 Thes. 1:8-9). Thus, it is IMPERATIVE that one KNOWS who God is and in the process, FOLLOW the teachings of Christ.
quote]We believe in one true God and God told us to love one another and God sent his only begotten son to die for our salvation We are to give our lives to Him and follow in his teaching. Say just for the sake of not arguing Jesus is "just a man". Even if he was "just a man" God sacrificed him for our sins and told us to follow in his teachings and called him His only begotten Son and God said every head shall bow and God raised him from the dead and put Jesus at his side.
You keep saying "follow Jesus' teaching." Jesus TAUGHT that he is a MAN and the FATHER is the ONLY true God. You can start FOLLOWING Jesus' teaching from here Messenger.
Ok Jesus said his Father is the Only true God. But how do you Follow that???? I believe what Jesus said to be true. The TEACHINGS are how to live to give glory to God to love one another AND NOT TO JUDGE OR CONDEMN!
God and Jesus are NOT of the SAME type of Oreo cookies. In FACT, they are NOT even the SAME type of Oreos. ONE is God and the OTHER is MAN. ONE is spirit in state of being and the OTHER is flesh and bones. If that is the Case WHY are you concerned with what church you go to??? If Jesus is "just a Man" then who cares that the "man" made a church??? What you say appears so foolish!JESUS IS NOT JUST A MAN....JESUS IS LORD SAVIOR AND THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER ACCEPT BY THE SON. YOU DISGRACE THE SON YOU DISGRACE THE FATHER YOU CONDEMN GOD'S CHILDREN YOU WILL BE CONDEMNED! WISEN UP BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. PRAY FOR FORGIVENESS AND ASK FOR WISDOM BECAUSE THE CHURCH THAT YOU BELIEVE TO BE THE ONE IS BLINDING YOU TO THE TRUTH!
Nobody can fault you for NOT caring whether people call God 3 in one and one in three. But if you are truly desirous of following Jesus' teaching, then be "humble" and ACCEPT Jesus' teaching that he is a MAN and the Father is the ONLY true God. I DO ACCEPT THAT JESUS IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD BUT GOD RASIED JESUS FROM THE DEAD AND TOLD US NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER ACCEPT THROUGH THE SON. TRINITY SAYS JESUS IS THE SAME AS GOD AND YOU SAY JESUS IS ONLY A MAN WHAT IF THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND? IF JESUS IS "JUST A MAN" THEN WHY WOULD WE FOLLOW IN HIS TEACHINGS? JESUS WAS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. THAT IS A LOT MORE THAN "JUST A MAN" AND CALLING JESUS JUST A MAN IS LUDICROUS.
This would make you in direct confrontation with Trinitarians who believe that Jesus is ALSO God IN ADDITION to the Father. No wrong again Ed. I don't believe Jesus is God. I believe Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God. I'm not accepted by either of the groups. I'm not a trinitarian and I'm not whatever you wish to call yourself.
[uote]Jesus was the greatest teacher ever. Jesus did exactly what his Father wanted. Jesus was NEVER "JUST A MAN".
[/quote]
What do you mean by "NEVER JUST A MAN?" Do you mean by this that Jesus was God IN ADDITION to being a MAN? This I DON'T agree with at all. Are we God in addition to Man? If we ask for Jesus to Save us and we receive the Holy Spirit are we in addition to man God also....I Say NO! Can we ever become Jesus or better than Jesus?? I say NO....Jesus Is God the father's ONLY Begotten Son....this is more than Just a man. A prince is a son of a King is a Prince just a boy...in my opinion yes but in wordly thinking and according to the King the boy is a PRINCE. To say Jesus is Just a man...NO Jesus is the Only Begotten Son Jesus is Lord, Savior....If Jesus wants to be humble and say he is "just a man" that is different than me saying Yes he is just a man....NO JESUS IS MY LORD AND SAVIOR AND JUST A MAN IS NOT!
But if what you mean by this is Jesus was NEVER an ORDINARY man like you and me, I totally AGREE with you 100%. oops....I missed this part
God will NOT take kindly on people who ADDS to or SUBTRACTS from His word (Deut. 12:32; Rev. 22:18-19). God COMMANDED Jesus to SAY (John 12:49-50) that he is a MAN and the Father is the ONLY true God. Anybody who DISOBEYS God will NOT be saved. I agree! But I believe the commands are to love not to figure out exactly what they consist of. Jesus is one with the Father in spirit and truth. Jesus is above me. I don't believe I need to totally figure out the rankings of the Father and Son they are both to be worshiped and glorified. The Holy Spirit guides us but all comes from the Father. But the Father placed Jesus at his side.
Do their messages really come from God just because they read the Bible? For example, if these pastors deliver the message "that Jesus is God" because he said (and they quote the Bible), "I and the Father are one," is the message, "Jesus is God" fTRULY from God? Absolutely NOT! Jesus DELIVERED the CLEAR and SELF-EXPLANATORY message FROM God that: "he is a MAN and the FATHER alone is the ONLY true God." Any OTHER message CONTRADICTING this, is NOT a message that comes FROM God. Agree. What I was trying to say is that some messages from church leaders are correct and from God. I belong to a non-denomination church and we can interpret scriptures ourselves. We don't have all the doctrines or paperwork stating we are the ONE True Church. One true church and one true God. Is your church only one building or many? Angels are not God but they are one with God. Jesus in that sence is one with God. We can worship the son and know by that we are loving the father. I believe salvation is in the heart and not the mind. Accepting Trinity doctrine and believing it is a mindful figuring out but loving Jesus and accepting Him is in the heart.
I honestly don't know what you mean. I recall that a while back, you INTIMATED to me that you DON'T believe the Trinity doctrine. Why the change of heart Messenger?
I don't believe in doctrines but I also don't believe in condemning those who do. Only they know if they are following God or the teachings of man. I can learn from others but my best teacher comes when I pray to understand and give my life to Jesus. Trinity doctrine is full of ? marks made to be absolutes and in my opinion not the whole truth. If you look up trinity doctrine you will find many and find that they change. I also do not believe in ONE True Church in the sence that you do. What if one never attends church but worships God through reading the Bible, prayer, giving one another out of love and compassion, visiting the elderly, sick and imprissioned...according to your "true church" do they not have salvation? I fear what your church teaches but I don't have the time or desire to check it out at this point I don't condemn your church I just question it's condemntion of others. Ed [/QUOTE]
Hello Bear
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
The word CULT is relative Messenger. See my post at "Do you belong to a cult?" thread. I agree with you 100% that ONLY Christ SAVES. The question is: WHO or WHAT is it that Christ will save? The Bible teaches: "Christ is the HEAD of the church and he is the SAVIOR of the BODY" (Eph. 5:23). The CHURCH is Christ's BODY (Eph. 1:22-23) and he is the HEAD (Col. 1:18).
A FOOL is one who does NOT believe what the Bible says Messenger. The Bible PLAINLY teaches that ONLY members of the CHURCH will be saved.
You are BLINDED by your BIAS Messenger. We do NOT claim that the CHURCH saves. Look at Eph. 5:23 again. It says Christ IS the SAVIOR - OF the body, the church (Eph. 1:22-3; Col. 1:18). And YOUR doctrine is NOT of God. because you CANNOT show proof that it is. And since your doctrine is NOT of God, then it must be of the DEVIL!
Oh yeah? Read Matt. 16:18 Messsenger. If you can SEE, you'll read that Christ built ONLY ONE church, which he called "MY church."
You will - but NOT according to my church. According to Jesus, anyone who does NOT believe him does NOT have life but the WRATH of God ABIDES in him (John 3:36). And anyone whose name is NOT written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:15).
This is FALSE! Show me proof that this is TRUE.
You don't know what you are blabbering about Mesenger. A church is NOT a building.
My church is the BODY of Christ and Christ is the HEAD. The HEAD will die ONLY for the sins of his BODY, the church (Eph. 5:23; Eph. 5:25; Acts 20:28 <I>Lamsa</I>). That church is the IGLESIA NI CRISTO composed of DISCIPLES of Christ. And DISCIPLES of Christ are those who BELIEVE in Christ and ABIDE in his word (John 8:31).
I will allow you to wallow in your IGNORANCE.
ONLY God CAN tell HOW one can be saved Messenger. You are NOT God. Therefore, whatever you say is of NO value UNLESS it is supported by the WORD of God, which we know is the Bible.
Show me the word of God that supports this Messenger. As I said, you are NOT God that I should believe anything you say.
I'm glad you asked. If you beliueve this and want to FOLLOW Jesus, "come out of her (your church) lest you share in her sins and lest you receive of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).
Show me that this is a doctrine of God and NOT of the DEVIL.
Because anyone who does NOT follow the teachings of Jesus does NOT have God (2 John :9). Jesus TAUGHT that anyone who does NOT believe him is CONDEMNED already (John 3:18) and does NOT have life. The WRATH of God ABIDES in him (John 3:36).
I undertand. Biased people have the tendency to go blind.
Unfortunately, what you believe DOESN'T change the TRUTH that God will PUNISH those who "do NOT know God and do NOT obey the gospel of Christ" (2 Thes. 1:8-9).
"And no wonder! For SATAN himself TRANSFORMS himself into an angel of light. For such are FALSE prophets, DECEITFUL workers, TRANSFORMING themselves INTO apostles of Christ" (2 Cor. 11:14, 13).
If you go to a restaurant and the waiter gives you something you did NOT order, would you take it? Do you expect less from God? Do you really believe that God ACCEPTS any worship service that He himself did NOT prescribe?
TRUE worship and service to God which is ACCEPTABLE to Him is LEARNED and DONE only in the one and only TRUE Church of Christ.
Nadab and Abihu, sons of AAron, were killed by God for offerin a service that God did NOT command them to do (Lev. 10:1-2).
Thus, SALVATION can ONLY be attained if one FOLLOWS God's Plan of Salvation to the letter. And who else but the one and only TRUE Church of Christ CAN deliver this Plan of Salvation to others. The one and only TRUE Church of Christ is the ONLY ONE church who has a messenger SENT from God to DELIVER His Plan.
We do NOT have a lease on life Messenger and we do NOT know when Jesus is coming either. Now is the time to check us out. You have NOTHING to lose and EVERYTHING to gain.
We do NOT condemn other churches Messenger. What we do is point out TRUTHS recorded in the Holy Bible. If by doing so, we appear to be comdemning them, we apologize. We do NOT intend it that way.
Ed
Upvote
0
Messenger
Simplicity of Life
I'll check it out later Ed. But I'll tell you I am Saved. God guides me. The feeling the knowing the Holy Spirit guiding me is a wisdom a knowledge, a knowing that no man can make me uncertain of. A man didn't make me saved and a man can't take that away from me. Eternal life begins today. Eternal life isn't after death but eternally a life with God. Jesus is my best friend and never lets me down. That doesn't mean I recieve lots of money and gifts it means spiritually He takes good care of me. I wrote Simplicity of Life when I knew very little from the Bible. I experience gifts from my Lord. When I pray I receive answers. I have my Bible and I can pray and find scriptures. Satan isn't in control of my life. I have given my life to God. Most of what you asked for Bible proof of I can show you. At other times I was being sarcastic about making a doctrine and such. The Church Jesus made doesn't mean just your church but rather any church that follows the Head of the church Jesus Christ. I don't accept the Trinity doctrine but my church that I belong to doesn't state the trinity doctrine. I listed my churches beliefs on a thread a while back. From the time I was a child and asked Jesus into my heart I believed I knew right from wrong. When I was inspired to write Simplicity of Life it was different from anything I had experienced before. I didn't even like writing. After writing it I posted it on a Christian forum. That was nearly 1 1/2 years ago. Since then I pray to God several times a day and God Jesus the Holy Spirit is my life. I would never try to make someone accept Simplicity of Life as from God but I share it and have tested it by the Bible and find it to be atleast a message to me. I figure if I'm doing something wrong prayer, the Bible and the guidance of the Holy Spirit will lead me straight. I learn from you all and hopefully I can help someone else to learn but God is my one true guide. You all are just messengers. Sometimes the messages are correct and from God and sometimes they get messed up in the translations. I know in my heart soul and very being the joy peace love kindness I experience within is my assurance that I am saved and heading down the right path. I'm busy on a board about a missing little boy ShawnHornbeck. I'll check out your church when I get a chance. Sorry for putting it down. I took offence to you saying it was the only True one and reacted in a worldly way. Still got a lot of work ahead of me I know what to do but still stuborn in my old ways. Anyway take care Ed and rest assure I'm on the right path....Jesus/God/or the Holy Spirit told me so.
Love and God Bless all of you and Please say a prayer for a missing little boy ShawnHornbeck. You can find the case at http://www.shawnhornbeck.com/
Love and God Bless all of you and Please say a prayer for a missing little boy ShawnHornbeck. You can find the case at http://www.shawnhornbeck.com/
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
