I've probably lost everything :(

PARCmd · Dec 21, 2007

Hi!

While I was just reading some documents in my computer, I got some urges which I done again, like my first post today. So I thought it was all OK.

Then all of a sudden, I got this something, I don't really know if it was me, or if it was an obsession, or an urge that I just did - it was horrible.

It went like this: "Maybe God isn't really for me, so I **** you God" - then it went it my head several times.

The asterisks are "renounce: - I just can't bear to write it here.

I was caught by surprise that either: 1) I was able to think of that, or if it wasn't me, 2) that my OCD was able to think of that. So I wasn't able to cancel it. THough the second and third time I was able to cancel it, though with much hardship.

I don't know, I just stared blankly at the computer screen after it. I don't know if it was from me or from my OCD, though I'm somewhat certain is was from me. Though on the other hand, I know I couldn't even think of that. I went out of the room and started asking for forgiveness. I feel like I'm going to be crazy in a split second. Random thoughts started springing out of my mind, like that I shouldn't have been born or that if I could only change time. I'm somewhat certain it came from me, though I'm not angry at God at that time, just a little bit disappointed, but not even toward God, but toward my OCD.

It happened just after reading Hebrews 6:4-6, which says, "Christians who have fallen away can never achieve Salvation anymore". I feel like crying out toward God to forgive me, but even if I did, it would be to no avail, because it was explicitly written in the Bible that apostates can never receive Salvation anymore and that it is simply impossible. What am I gonna do? I feel like giving up already.

Though I still want Jesus badly and would give everything I have just to be with Him someday.

In my previous posts, I told you that I would never leave Jesus even if He does not want me, so I'm gonna stay a Christian, even though I might go to hell someday.

Please help me. I don't want to die an apostate. I want to be with God someday. What are your views here. I'm totally devastated now... I'm praying that God would use you to determine if I'm still a believer or an apostate incapable of receiving His forgiveness..

ChristianGuitarMan112190 · Dec 21, 2007

PARCmd said:
Hi!

While I was just reading some documents in my computer, I got some urges which I done again, like my first post today. So I thought it was all OK.

Then all of a sudden, I got this something, I don't really know if it was me, or if it was an obsession, or an urge that I just did - it was horrible.

It went like this: "Maybe God isn't really for me, so I **** you God" - then it went it my head several times.

The asterisks are "renounce: - I just can't bear to write it here.

I was caught by surprise that either: 1) I was able to think of that, or if it wasn't me, 2) that my OCD was able to think of that. So I wasn't able to cancel it. THough the second and third time I was able to cancel it, though with much hardship.

I don't know, I just stared blankly at the computer screen after it. I don't know if it was from me or from my OCD, though I'm somewhat certain is was from me. Though on the other hand, I know I couldn't even think of that. I went out of the room and started asking for forgiveness. I feel like I'm going to be crazy in a split second. Random thoughts started springing out of my mind, like that I shouldn't have been born or that if I could only change time. I'm somewhat certain it came from me, though I'm not angry at God at that time, just a little bit disappointed, but not even toward God, but toward my OCD.

It happened just after reading Hebrews 6:4-6, which says, "Christians who have fallen away can never achieve Salvation anymore". I feel like crying out toward God to forgive me, but even if I did, it would be to no avail, because it was explicitly written in the Bible that apostates can never receive Salvation anymore and that it is simply impossible. What am I gonna do? I feel like giving up already.

Though I still want Jesus badly and would give everything I have just to be with Him someday.

In my previous posts, I told you that I would never leave Jesus even if He does not want me, so I'm gonna stay a Christian, even though I might go to hell someday.

Please help me. I don't want to die an apostate. I want to be with God someday. What are your views here. I'm totally devastated now... I'm praying that God would use you to determine if I'm still a believer or an apostate incapable of receiving His forgiveness..

First off, ANY person that is scared they have committed this sin HAS NOT!! Anybody who wants the Lord in their life HAS NOT committed the sin!! ANY person who sincerly asks for forgiveness and wants to be with Jesus HAS NOT committed this sin!! There is NO unpardonable sin!! The Bible says Jesus died for ALL sins not all but one!! If you want God in your life, why do think he does not want you?? God is always searching for lose who are lost and long for a relationship with them!! NOBODY can just at the turn of a finger blasphemy anyhow!! It is a process of rejection of the Holy Spirit!! Then into complete hatred straight from the heart!! There is NO sin that God will not forgive!! He loves you!! Any non-believer who does this is at risk!! For their hearts get completely hardened against Christ!! A Christian cannot commit this sin!! No matter what your OCD tells you or makes you think!! I don't care what the tought is or how bad it is!! You must learn to seperate the to your thoughts and OCD, it don't matter for you, cause God knows!! He knows your struggles!! Do you really think he wants anyone to go to hell?? No of course not!! He loves us all!! No matter what if you accept Jesus, God will always call us back to him!!

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

jc9992 · Dec 21, 2007

PARCmd i know how you feel.You still love God so that means you havent renounced Him.Renouncing God isnt done so much in words but actions.Let me explain....If you quit going to church,stop reading the bible,dont pray,and stop believing in God,THAT is renouncing Him.Obviously you havent done any of those things ,so you are safe.

There is NO unpardonable sin!!

Im sorry but i have to disagree with you there guitar man.I dont want there to be any division or doctrine clashing on this board,but we need to go by what the bible says.

There IS an unpardonable sin.God said He forgives all but blasphemy.However Jesus also says that He will forgive you IF you REPENT.That is the key to defining the unpardonable sin,The people who blaspheme the Holy Spirit CANNOT repent.They have no desire to.If you want to live for God and serve Him,but are concerned that you have committed blasphemy,then that proves you havent committed it.If blasphemy was so easy as an unintentional thought then there would thousands upon thousands of Christians who are condemned and dont even know it,but thats not true.

Someone cant blaspheme and then desire to be a Christian that does NOT happen.To be a christian God has to draw you and if you blaspheme,you cant be drawn because God has completely left you.

I know this might trigger some people because it does me and is in fact my current "obsession",but i believe that if a christian were to blaspheme(which is unlikely to begin with)that God would just right then remove all desire to be a Christian from their hearts.

If an unbeliver blasphemes like the pharisees ,they will never be called to God and will forever remain in their sinful state.

If a Christian blasphemes i believe the effects would be far more drastic than an unbeliever's.I believe that God just literally abandons the ex-christian and instantly turns them over to a reprobate mind from which there is no escape.

Im sorry if this gets people's OCD worked up,because i know it does mine,but im going by what the bible says.If im wrong please show me some bible verses because i dont want to suddenly find myself with no desire or love for God.

2theBone · Dec 21, 2007

Yeah.

Relax.

God judges us by our hearts, it's as simple as that.

And God knows your heart is good.

Relax in Gods love.

You can trust it.

2theBone · Dec 21, 2007

Im sorry if this gets people's OCD worked up,because i know it does mine,but im going by what the bible says.If im wrong please show me some bible verses because i dont want to suddenly find myself with no desire or love for God.

I perceive that you are a bit hung up on legalism.

Don't go there.

If you have chosen to be a friend of God......you have God's laws written on your heart. You don't need Bibles and tapes and teachers......you and God have an agreement.

It's like this:

NRS Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 The days are surely coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant that I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt--a covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, {Or [master]} says the Lord.
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 No longer shall they teach one another, or say to each other, "Know the Lord," for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and remember their sin no more.

So, we can relax and live in love forever.

Wow, I bet that's a load off your mind.

Black_Ivy · Dec 21, 2007

I think, in everything, including faiths, it is not always so much what you say at one particular moment, but what is truly in your heart. That's what matters, and I think, if there is a God, he is probably very, very pleased with what is in your heart. I know this, because, what you asked is very reflective of how deep your caring goes. = ) I hope that helps; it is my honest opinion

marcb · Dec 21, 2007

The chapter in Hebrews talks about having fallen away to no longer being repentant (spiritual blindness). You are not in that state my friend. You are in the opposite camp by far.

Now, you need help with your ocd.

PARCmd · Dec 21, 2007

OK, this sounds weird or bizarre, but I guess 90% of my OCD disppeared immediately after this happened. I don't know why. Whenever I pray, no obsessions or urges huant me anymore.

I still get the urges to think about the blasphemous thoughts and to cancel them (the urges became very mild after the renunciation happened), and sometimes I do them and I can't cancel them or I don't cancel them anymore, because I feel that I maybe finished anymore. But I don't believe in them anyway. I still like to go to Church, read the Bible, and pray, and serve God.

What haunts me is this: while the second and third renunciations were canceled with "nots" - a remark that would openly testify to my refusal of those thoughts, the first one I wasn't able to cancel, and what I'm afraid of, is that I partially bought the idea (maybe) that God wasn't for me. I really don't know, it was a split second.

I somehow know that I wouldn't deliberately think of renouncing God (I can't even stand to write it, right?) though somehow I think that it is me who deliberately renounced God...

2theBone · Dec 22, 2007

Maybe you renounced that terrifying, murderous and legalistic God that so many people have come to think is the real God.

Thus you can now serve the God of love.

Sometimes people can't fully accept God no matter how hard they try......and then they discover that they had been introduced to a God that did not exist. No wonder they couldn't establish a relationship.

Perhaps, in your own way......you had an epiphany.

PARCmd · Dec 22, 2007

Uhm, I don't know - the only thing I know is that God is the God of love and justice.

I get renouncing thoughts in my mind up to now which I feel comes from me, but then, it is not me who deliberately thinks about them. Sometimes, it's me, but I don't really mean to renounce God. I don't get bad feelings when I encounter this. I don't understand, I still believe in God, I enjoy reading His word, I like praying to Him, but when I do these things, it does not haunt me anymore. Has my heart been hardened?

2theBone · Dec 22, 2007

Tell me, what is your chief disagreement with God?

OptimisticSmile · Dec 22, 2007

I have been here before. I believed that I was going to at any moment say F-you to God.

the hebrews passage is not talking about christians. True christians can never be lost or commit the unpardonable sin. Hebrews is talking about those who heard the mesage of Christ, claimed to be christians but were trusting in being jewish for salvation. That being said if you have a been saved by trusting in the complete and perfect gift of Jesus Christ then you are saved. That passage haunted me as well. I still dont want to look at it.

one thing that I have learned through my recent engagment is the grace of God. First off, my fiance before being a christian blasphemed God by a lifestyle in the occult. Despite that, God saved her. Now most of us here are scared that the thoughts we have will be unpardonable. My Fiance and other christians with occult pasts have willingly thought blasphemous thoughts and it was an outpour of their fallen man. God forgives them just as he has already forgiven us.

secondly, my fiance went back into her pre-salvation state for a short while just after being saved. Despite that God brought her back and continues to show his grace toward her. He has used her to evangelize in Brazil and in her day to day life.

what puts my mind to rest most is knowing the Grace God has for her because in human eyes, most would say how could God forive that. Another thing that helps me is to judge others by the same standard I judge myself. In otherwords, if I applied the same perfection and focused on the same imperfections ,with others, that I apply to my walk then pretty much noone would be a christian.

Im praying for you

QUannie · Dec 22, 2007

I found comfort in this passage this morning...I hope it helps you too!
Romans 7:14-25
"We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So I find this law at work: when I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God- through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."

by agreeing that what we do is not what we really want to do...we agree with Gods law...
This scripture is so wonderful, it proves that our distress and uncomftorble feelings and anger/frustration at what we do actually shows God's spiritual law is in us....we are fighting against our sinful nature and part of that is OCD...it came into the world because of sin.
We should shine God's grace so bright because we experience it on a deep level through our OCD!

I hope this helps,
Q

jc9992 · Dec 22, 2007

Ive been there PARCmd.Dont EVER assume that your heart has been hardened.Thats part of my obsession right now,that one of my thoughts will cross the line and my heart and feelings for God will instantly go flat.Its all a lie,your heart isnt hardened if you still love God.

PARCmd · Dec 23, 2007

I've had intrusive thoughts before probably a thousand times but this - this is so different, it feels like its me who actually commits it. I don't know I'm just too depressed to enjoy life. I now see each day as a curse. I can't take it anymore. I wish I wasn't even born. I feel like I'm going insane. This isn't blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, this is renunciation - a repudiation of your faith - and it feels like I did it several times already since Friday night.

I know I don't want to do that. Let's assume if it is indeed the OCD thoughts, then how would I know too?

I love God, but my fear of God now is extremely heightened - it feels like a bomb ready to explode. Maybe I'm cmmitting a sin now, but as much as I want to see Jesus and GOd as a loving figure, I don't know - may He forgive me, but I'm really totally afraid of Hell now and not being in His presence.

I now know what unpardoned1 means about that, though she claimed that she deliberately did that because she was angry, for my case, I don't know if I deliberately did that, and if I did, I didn't willfully renounced GOd either.

But if it is the renunciation, then I might have renounced God several times aleady since Friday. I don't even now know if it is my will or that of the OCD to renounce God. I really don't know. I still deliberately follow the urges and anxiety, and I'm not able to cancel them all the time, or it feels like that I can't cancel them.

If I've heard of a person who went exactly like this case, probably, I would normalize a bit.

jc9992 · Dec 23, 2007

If I've heard of a person who went exactly like this case, probably, I would normalize a bit.

Have you been to net-burst.com?

HeatherG · Dec 23, 2007

PARCmd said:
I don't even now know if it is my will or that of the OCD to renounce God. I really don't know. I still deliberately follow the urges and anxiety, and I'm not able to cancel them all the time, or it feels like that I can't cancel them.

If I've heard of a person who went exactly like this case, probably, I would normalize a bit.

No, if you heard of a person who went exactly like this case, your OCD would just find something else to latch on to, something which surely must be the "real" unpardonable sin this time.

It's totally normal (if having OCD is "normal") to not be sure if it was you or the OCD. That's what makes it so frightening. If we were all 100% sure at all times that the thoughts didn't belong to us, what do you think all the people on this board are panicking about? I suggest you go back and look at most of the threads started by others. Most of us feel that the particular thought pattern we are having is somehow different to what everyone else is going through. We can easily see how everyone else on this board definitely has not committed the unpardonable sin, but we just can't see it for ourselves. This is classic OCD.

What does it mean to renounce God? To turn your back on Him? So you mean you are turning your back on Him while at the same time bowing down before Him begging for His forgiveness and writing posts on this board saying how miserable you feel at the thought of being without Him? Yeah, right, you must have renounced Him then! Give me a break! If someone else wrote your post, what advice would you give them?

Don't think I am mocking you. I have been there too. Just do not give these thoughts the time of day any more.

Heather

Jayangel81 · Dec 23, 2007

QUannie said:
I found comfort in this passage this morning...I hope it helps you too!
Romans 7:14-25
"We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So I find this law at work: when I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God- through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."

by agreeing that what we do is not what we really want to do...we agree with Gods law...it proves Gods law is in our inner being.
This scripture is so wonderful, it proves that our distress and uncomftorble feelings and anger/frustration at what we do actually shows God's spiritual law is in us....we are fighting against our sinful nature and part of that is OCD...it came into the world because of sin.
We should shine God's grace so bright because we experience it on a deep level through our OCD!

I hope this helps,
Q

The passage is really comforting isnt it, but than moments later it makes me remember those who dont even bother to fight it which makes me sad all over again

On a side not i pray that you find comfort, i know how horrid this fight can be. It is a tiresome battle but in the End we will get our reward, God

Ps Optimisticsmile Happy birthday brother!

jc9992 · Dec 23, 2007

We can easily see how everyone else on this board definitely has not committed the unpardonable sin, but we just can't see it for ourselves. This is classic OCD.

I have said to myself several times....

"Nobody on the forum has really blasphemed except me!"

But of course everyone here says the same thing about their own situation.Makes me realize we're really not that different.

PARCmd · Dec 23, 2007

Thanks, I just don't know why it REALLY feels like its' me. THe feeling whenever I'm thinking deliberately and the feeling when I got this thought = so similar. Intrusive thoughts are something I had before, but I didn't get this feeling. Since Friday, I've got this funny feeling in me, that it's so similar. Though now, I'm starting to get the picture.

Last night, God forgive me, I was listening to some Christian songs and reading the Bible, and I suddenly got intensely fearful emotions, like fearing the Christian songs. I don't know why, its' because I might have dwelt much on that verse in Hebrews (I don't want to give you all OCD 'spikes'), but here's what it says: "It is a fearful thing to fall in the hands of a Living God".

Nevertheless, I'm seeing the whole picture. THere is also a verse that says "Jesus, being a living priest, can save to the uttermost".

I'm just too scared, but now, I feel being renewed by God. Thanks for your prayers too. I just wish that this would stop. THe night before this "renunciation", last THursday night, I also got thoughts saying "F--- Holy Spirit", I was canceling it, I couldn't. I just gave up from canceling it (it was an obsession anyway, I said to myself).

Btw, I did some renunciation after the Friday night renunciation (because I had urges - so they could be classified somewhat as compulsions) - I didn't canceled them because I believed that somehow I've already did it. I wish God would forgive me.

I'm feeling a lot better now, and I know would be healed very, very soon.

1 John 3:19-20 This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.

I've probably lost everything :(

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