scriptures
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My question to you dear brother is did Jn 1:1 says "the word is God Himself?
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If Jesus Was God, Who Was He Praying To? [moved from CA]
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scriptures
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If that is your understanding, you will contradict verse 2 says that the Word was "in the beginning with God," and verse 18 says that "no man hath seen God at any time,"
besides according to the NAB commentary "Was God:lack of a definite article with 'God' in Greek signifies predication rather than identification..."
I think Catholic scholars are going to the right direction but many are uninformed like you...
besides according to the NAB commentary "Was God:lack of a definite article with 'God' in Greek signifies predication rather than identification..."
I think Catholic scholars are going to the right direction but many are uninformed like you...
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Good Question !
Logically, He was praying to His Father, which we are all commanded to do.
He wasn'nt praying to Himself, wouldn't make any sense.
Logically, He was praying to His Father, which we are all commanded to do.
He wasn'nt praying to Himself, wouldn't make any sense.
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yashualover
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scriptures
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I agree.....Good Question !
Logically, He was praying to His Father, which we are all commanded to do.
He wasn'nt praying to Himself, wouldn't make any sense.
Jesus was praying to his God.....
His God is YHWH, the God of Israel...
There is no three in one....
Only one God... one person...
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Mathetes the kerux
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Mathetes the kerux
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Sorry . . . the definite article is there with the word . . . and the definite article is not needed to convey that he is THE ONE TRUE GOD either . . . there are other passages where the definite article is NOT used and still refers to the One True God.
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Mathetes the kerux
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Jesus is God. He stated "before Abraham was I AM." The Jews knew what this means, it is a claim of deity. They picked up stones to kill Him for it.That goes back to the burning bush when God told Moses to tell the Israelites that I AM sent him: God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' " Also the prophecyabout Him: For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6
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Mathetes the kerux
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Ego eimi . . . that is I AM . . . the YHWH e'hayah esher e'hayah of Exodus 3 . . .
Add to this the contrast with the generation of Abraham . . . and the eternality of Christ is in clear view per the Greek text of John 8:58.
Sorry . . .
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The blind man's generation is not contrasted with Christ's . . . ego eimi is used as an emphatic . . . as it is with the blind man . . . but when the tense of eimi is contrasted with genesthai (as it is in John 8:58) the point is the eternality of Christ.
So the Blind man of Jn 9:9 is also YHWH....
I can't take that logic
The author could have used other tenses (emen for example) but did not . . . it is an intentional play on words CLEAR to the original recipients of the letter, that leaves NO doubt to the origin of Abraham in contrast to the NO origin (eternality) of Christ.
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scriptures
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yeah, Jesus was talking about his existense before human....
that is why the proper translation should be..
before Abraham I have been....
So it's not "I am" like in jh 9:9....
Besides Ex 3:14 is different from Jn 8:58...
Ex 3:14 is Identity, while jn 8:58 is about existence..
check it carefully my dear brother.....
that is why the proper translation should be..
before Abraham I have been....
So it's not "I am" like in jh 9:9....
Besides Ex 3:14 is different from Jn 8:58...
Ex 3:14 is Identity, while jn 8:58 is about existence..
check it carefully my dear brother.....
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Mathetes the kerux
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Uh no . . . had John wanted to convey that he would have used emen (the imperfect tense saying "I was at some point in the past before Abraham") not eimi (the perfect tense).
Or he could have used egenomen . . . conveying . . . I came into existence at some time in the past before Abraham.
But this is NOT the case.
This is from Robert M. Bowman Jr., Jehovah's Witnesses Jesus Christ &The Gospel of John [Baker Book House; Grand Rapids, MI, 1995]
"What is it about this contrast between genesthai and eimi that has led to such a solid consensus throughout the centuries among biblical scholars that the words contrast created origin with uncreated eternal existence? By itself, of course, the word eimi does not connote eternal preexistence. However, placed alongside genesthai and referring to a time anterior to that indicated by genesthai, the word eimi (or its related forms), because it denotes simple existence and is a durative form of the verb to be, stands in sharp contrast to the aorist genesthai which speaks of 'coming into being.' It is this sharp contrast between being and becoming which makes it clear that in a text like John 8:58 eimi connotes eternality, not merely temporal priority."
Greek scholars agree . . . you can disagree with the text . . . but don't try to make the text mean something it does not.
The contrast is of Abrahams "coming" into being . . . and Christ's "being."
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scriptures
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By the way, I am not one of your friendly neighborhood JW's.... so don't quote things like that....
The question is about age...
So Jesus answered with his age....
That is He exist before Abraham....
As I said Ex. 3:14 is different from Jn 8:58.. check your LXX
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If you look a verse or two ahead of John 8:58, you will see that Jesus said that "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: he saw it, and was glad." (verse 26) What day was Abraham rejoicing to see? It was the day of the Messiah that would come. He was looking for the kingdom that would be at the returning of Christ, when New Jerusalem would be set upon the earth. (Hebrews 11:10)
So when the Jews asked how could Jesus have seen Abraham, since Jesus had referred to "his" day, Jesus simply reminded them that he is the Messiah. I am the one that Abraham was looking forward to.
If we take "I am" to mean the name of God, then Jesus wasn't calling himself God, he would have been saing that "Before Abraham was, God (I am). He couldn't have been referring to himself. In order for him to have done that, he would have had to say "Before Abraham was, I am God (I am). Then he would have been reffering to himself. But that is not the case.
So when the Jews asked how could Jesus have seen Abraham, since Jesus had referred to "his" day, Jesus simply reminded them that he is the Messiah. I am the one that Abraham was looking forward to.
If we take "I am" to mean the name of God, then Jesus wasn't calling himself God, he would have been saing that "Before Abraham was, God (I am). He couldn't have been referring to himself. In order for him to have done that, he would have had to say "Before Abraham was, I am God (I am). Then he would have been reffering to himself. But that is not the case.
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