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I hear what you are saying - I would much rather have them arrive then leave.
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What Keeps a Person in the Church?
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Doc,
You are wise, and we would do well to listen to your advice. I hope to meet each and everyone here in our forum family in heaven. May we all gather around the Tree of Life one day.
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I hear what you are saying - I would much rather have them arrive then leave.
Well that shows you are a lovely traditional SDA! (that's a compliment) BUT, I will tickle you a little bit more . . . because there's another person who shares your preference seeing them ARRIVE! Yaouzza!
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honorthesabbath
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Awwww--I wove you Doc!! You always say things so calmly and intelligently. I wish I could say that I mellowing with age--lol--because I'm not--lol.
But bravo to you. I feel the same way about the SDA church. There is none like it on the earth! Yes--even with the faults of human frailty --she is the BEST! I would belong to none other--where would I go? Nowhere!
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NightEternal
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It is interesting that you believe that someone who believes in the fundamental beliefs of the church DOES NOT THINK FOR THEMSELVES.
There is no way on God's green earth every single member of the whole world church is going to all agree on every aspect and nuance of the 28 if people are using thier own individual discernment and judgment. No way.
If schooled. trained SDA ministers like Tall and Free can come to the drastic conclusions they have through honset Bible study and research, there is not a hope in hell you are going to get thousands and thousands of SDA's of every different level of education and theological knowledge who are being good Bereans to do so.
You underestimate the power of the group-think/pack mentality in regards to conformity. Throw in a good dose of remnant/persecution complex as well as a desperate desire to belong to an exclusive group, and you have a sure fire recipe for brainus autopilotus. That would be the Latin term BTW.
I quoted your post so you can read it again if you need to refresh your memory.
No need. I stand by my statement.
Also, no where in my post do I ever ask anyone to leave the church - look at my posts I have never advocated that. Request to see PM that I have sent to Tall and Sophia. NEVER have I ever asked anyone to leave.
Where did I say such a thing? Where did I give any indication I was speaking about you personally? I was not.
If you are guilty of anything, it is that I have never seen you call any of your cohorts on thier behavior. Not once. Not one time.
As for the understanding being thrown around this forum comment. I do think that we try and deal with each other with a certain level of respect and understanding.
Baloney. Progs have received so much hatred and disrespect from your camp it boggles the mind. 'Heretics' and 'offshoots' have become the operative drogatory terms in regards to us.
Do all of the "trads" agree with each other, absolutely not.
You all seem to agree we are not true Adventists and that we have no rights to the Adventist name.
Night, what you spout is rhetoric
You can call the truth whatever you want. It is still the truth.
and it is repeated over and over again. Some people here could probably write your posts for you.
As long as the same offences are continually committed aginst the Progs, I will say the same things in response until they stop. Of course, they willl never stop, so there you go.
There is no way on God's green earth every single member of the whole world church is going to all agree on every aspect and nuance of the 28 if people are using thier own individual discernment and judgment. No way.
If schooled. trained SDA ministers like Tall and Free can come to the drastic conclusions they have through honset Bible study and research, there is not a hope in hell you are going to get thousands and thousands of SDA's of every different level of education and theological knowledge who are being good Bereans to do so.
You underestimate the power of the group-think/pack mentality in regards to conformity. Throw in a good dose of remnant/persecution complex as well as a desperate desire to belong to an exclusive group, and you have a sure fire recipe for brainus autopilotus. That would be the Latin term BTW.
I quoted your post so you can read it again if you need to refresh your memory.
No need. I stand by my statement.
Also, no where in my post do I ever ask anyone to leave the church - look at my posts I have never advocated that. Request to see PM that I have sent to Tall and Sophia. NEVER have I ever asked anyone to leave.
Where did I say such a thing? Where did I give any indication I was speaking about you personally? I was not.
If you are guilty of anything, it is that I have never seen you call any of your cohorts on thier behavior. Not once. Not one time.
As for the understanding being thrown around this forum comment. I do think that we try and deal with each other with a certain level of respect and understanding.
Baloney. Progs have received so much hatred and disrespect from your camp it boggles the mind. 'Heretics' and 'offshoots' have become the operative drogatory terms in regards to us.
Do all of the "trads" agree with each other, absolutely not.
You all seem to agree we are not true Adventists and that we have no rights to the Adventist name.
Night, what you spout is rhetoric
You can call the truth whatever you want. It is still the truth.
and it is repeated over and over again. Some people here could probably write your posts for you.
As long as the same offences are continually committed aginst the Progs, I will say the same things in response until they stop. Of course, they willl never stop, so there you go.
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NightEternal
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Stick to the issues. We are not talking about sexual indiscretions or some other serious offense that would warrant church discipline. The issue is people who think differently and come to different conclusions on the 28. Many Trads feel we Progs should be forced out of the church through church discipline for not believing any of the 28 if we do not leave of our own accord.
What say you?
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Here again you throw "us" into a group that supposedly can not think for themselves. I guess only "progs" think for themselves.
Again because your tendency is to throw us all into one pot instead of dealing with one who you feel is antagonizing you. You question different beliefs so why would it not be appropriate for someone to question you on it?
If I want to deal with sensitive issues I usually do it in PM - which I find is appropriate. And I am more then willing to be loving rebuked by anyone here. I don't have to agree or like it. Being chastised or rebuked is usually not a pleasant process.
If you go and look at my original question show me the hate and disrespect that I have shown towards the so called "progs".
I never said you were not a true Adventist I just don't agree with some of the things that you present.
Defender of the "progs" keep up the good work
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NightEternal
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It's amazing to me how someone can type all this and yet still completely avoid the issues as well as miss the point. 
I am not a 'defender of the progs'. I am someone who is saying exactly what others want to say but don't for whatever reason. There are many who feel the same way I do, I have the PM's to prove it. There is a whole underground of Progs dealing witht these issues on another forum as we speak, so don't think for a minute this is a lone ranger endeavor.
It is obvious to me you do not see the seriousness of what some of your companions are doing nor do you really care.
So, this is pretty much a pointless endeavor now.
I'm outta here.
I am not a 'defender of the progs'. I am someone who is saying exactly what others want to say but don't for whatever reason. There are many who feel the same way I do, I have the PM's to prove it. There is a whole underground of Progs dealing witht these issues on another forum as we speak, so don't think for a minute this is a lone ranger endeavor.
It is obvious to me you do not see the seriousness of what some of your companions are doing nor do you really care.
So, this is pretty much a pointless endeavor now.
I'm outta here.
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I would not speak for anyone else but form my point of view if the gap is too large then the person may need to think about getting out.
There must be a core set of beliefs/values that if left behind then the person is no longer an SDA.
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SoldierOfTheKing
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IntoTheCrimsonSky
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I know some people who don't think it's really that important. What the church believes does not need to reflect what they believe, because they're only there for social reasons..and it doesn't dictate their relationship with God.
I understand this idea. It's true, what you believe is your own experience. Where you go does not really effect it unless you let it.
However, in my case, I would rather attend a church of which I believe with at least a majority of the beliefs, if not all. Why? Social reasons too. For me, I'd rather be able to state my religion with pride, knowing that it represents me in every way. Rather than having to explain later on if the person questions something they assume I believe but don't.
For this, I'd church hop in a second. Sure, I know some of my church family would go into shock and probably get very worried about me..But that's not really what matters.
They'll understand when Jesus returns, if not before.On the flip side, I also wouldn't go to a church that I completely disagree with the core beliefs of. For example, I don't agree with some of the catholic teachings. Do I have anything against catholics, no way! They, like myself, are still striving to know God. We just don't see eye-to-eye so I wouldn't call myself one.
It's like the view of death. I'm about 99% sure on it as being right according to the SDA standpoint. That brought me to the SDA church in the first place and is one reason why I am still one. Untill I find something I disagree with that I feel outweighs that one in my eyes, I'm happy here.
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