We are not to hurt anyone for any reason.

Zecryphon · Dec 13, 2007

TraderJack said:
Which wastes time and allows for the arsonist to continue setting more houses on fire jeopardizing the lives of more people.

So in your opinion it's better for a firefighter to draw a weapon that he most likely can't either get to or oeprate safely given that he's covered head to foot in protective clothing and fire shots at people he most likely is not going to hit and risk mulitple crimminal charges for doing so, than to send a couple of guys over with a hose to actually do their jobs? Are you serious with this? Just out of curiosity do you carry or have you ever carried a concealed weapon such as a handgun?

mont974x4 · Dec 13, 2007

Zecryphon said:
So in your opinion it's better for a firefighter to draw a weapon that he most likely can't either get to or oeprate safely given that he's covered head to foot in protective clothing and fire shots at people he most likely is not going to hit and risk mulitple crimminal charges for doing so, than to send a couple of guys over with a hose to actually do their jobs? Are you serious with this? Just out of curiosity do you carry or have you ever carried a concealed weapon such as a handgun?

Are you serious?

Rick Otto · Dec 13, 2007

Jeanne Assam

Church guard gains hero status - The Rocky Mountain News
http://tinyurl.com/2w4kc7

By Fernando Quintero, Rocky Mountain News

December 11, 2007

Jeanne Assam

http://tinyurl.com/2ug88d
Security guard Jeanne Assam, 42, is led from a Monday press conference inside Colorado Springs police headquarters by New Life Church Pastor Brady Boyd, back right, and Associate Pastor Mike Steczo. On Sunday, Assam shot and killed Matthew Murray, who police say was responsible for shootings at New Life and, earlier Sunday, at Youth With A Mission in Arvada that left five people dead, including the gunman.

PDF: Search warrant for gunman's home
http://tinyurl.com/3cffxw

The gunshots echoed like thunder in the hallway filling with smoke and the panic of those who sensed death at their shoulder.

The black-clad gunman coming through the church door was bringing hell to the believers.

The only thing in his way was Jeanne Assam.

"People were running away from where the shots were fired. I saw him through the chaos," Assam said Monday as she searched for some of the calm that carried her through the nightmare that played out inside New Life Church the day before.

"It seemed like it was me, the gunman and God," said Assam, whose hands trembled slightly as she spoke during the afternoon news conference.

Assam took cover and waited for the gunman to get close.

"God was with me. I was very focused. My hands weren't even shaking," said Assam, a volunteer security guard at New Life.

"I identified myself and engaged him then took him down," Assam said, giving a clinical account of the moment when she fired the shot ending the gunman's rampage.

"I didn't think for a minute to run away," she said.

A witness close enough to be hit by a bullet fragment is one of those who credits Assam with saving lives that day.

"She kept yelling, 'Surrender.' She was not flinching. It was unbelievable," said Larry Bourbonnais, 59, a New Life parishioner who was slightly injured on his left arm.

The gunman had fatally wounded two teenage girls in the parking lot before entering the building. But, New Life Pastor Brady Boyd said, if the attacker had made it another 60 feet down the hall, he could have shot hundreds of parishioners still inside.

Bourbonnais said the gunman was dressed in black with an assault rifle slung over his shoulder. Bourbonnais said he took cover behind a pillar as gunshots were exchanged.

Through the smoke that came from devices police had shot into the facility, Bourbonnais said he saw the gunman's head tilt forward, and then he fell to the ground.

"There were two other armed guards, but they weren't doing anything. I asked one of them to give me their gun so I could take the guy out," said Bourbonnais, a Colorado Springs resident who said he is a Vietnam veteran.

"I asked her, 'How are you so calm?' She said, 'I was praying to the Holy Spirit the whole time to direct me,' " Bourbonnais said recalling Assam's words. "The whole thing probably lasted 30 seconds."

Assam, who said she has been a member of New Life for a few months, said the incident happened on the last day of a three-day fast she had been on as part of her religious practice.

"I was weak. God made me strong. I'm honored God chose me," she said.

Assam said she read about the shootings in Arvada earlier in the day and "got chills."

A small woman with feathered blond hair and eyes that were bloodshot.
Assam said she had not slept since the tragedy and can't get the sound of the gunshots out of her head.

The shots were so loud, Assam said, it sounded like they were fired inside the church.

A former officer with the Minneapolis police, Assam delivered her story with the clipped understatement of a street cop.

But she broke the tension when asked about her personal background.

"I'm single. No kids," she said, quickly adding she was on the lookout for a man. She drew a laugh when she first declined to give her age; then said she was 25. She is 42, according to public records.

Assam grew up in Sioux Falls, S.D., went to Hamline University and graduated with a criminal justice degree, said her twin sister, Jennifer, of Sioux Falls. She has five sisters and a brother.

She worked with the Minneapolis police for several years in the late '90s before leaving the department and moving to Colorado in 2000.

Boyd said that Assam is one of 12 members of his congregation who volunteer to work as guards at New Life. Half of those volunteers carry firearms, he said, and all of those are licensed.

"She's a real heroine to me and the New Life Church," Boyd said.

Related articles.

Gunman's hate boiled over
http://tinyurl.com/26w9m6

Pastor decries 'moral detachment'
http://tinyurl.com/2x45bn

Murray's religious rants all the rage on the Internet
http://tinyurl.com/24ttuf

A. believer · Dec 13, 2007

Giver said:
The first commandment is to love our God. You can only love God by living his Word.

Someone who will kill is of the world. The world has laws and people to enforce those laws. A Christian is not part of the world. It would be the worlds job to protect your neighbor. The person attacking your neighbor is of the world and breaking the law, so let the world enforce the law.

This is the kind of thing I mean that is so reprehensible in your ethics. Because you believe that only an unbeliever is authorized to do the God-ordained job of protecting the innocent, you would stand and watch your neighbor being attacked and murdered because an unbeliever wasn't present to intervene. That's blatant disobedience to the command to love your neighbor.

A. believer · Dec 13, 2007

double post

Zecryphon · Dec 13, 2007

mont974x4 said:
Are you serious?

Go back a few posts and read what TraderJack is suggesting supports his assertion that a firefighter can harm a person in his line of work. He's got a firefighter at a fire at 2 AM seeing two guys setting more fires down the street and instead of calling for another truck to deal with this new threat or sending a couple of guys over with a hose to put out the new fires, he has a fully-suited fireman produce a concealed weapon from somewhere, and shoot the bad guys across the street.

I find his whole scenario ridiculous and I think comes from someone who does not know that much about carrying a concealed weapon. Plus he never says why a fireman would be carrying a concealed weapon to a fire at 2 AM in the first place. This is a fireman, he probably has an axe somewhere on the truck that he could chase them away with. That would be more plausible than what he's put forth here.

A. believer · Dec 13, 2007

genez said:
Do you keep your doors unlocked? Do you leave your keys in your car? Do you leave all your money on the kitchen table?

I think you must. After all..... Jesus wants you not to hurt anyone. It hurts them sometimes when they break in to steal. Might bruise himself in breaking and entry. Should keep your doors unlocked. Leave your car unlocked with the keys in it. It hurts sometimes when they have to break in.

Good point. Locking a door is certainly resisting evil. It's amazing how people can fail to see the absurdity of their false interpretations.

mont974x4 · Dec 13, 2007

Zecryphon said:
Go back a few posts and read what TraderJack is suggesting supports his assertion that a firefighter can harm a person in his line of work. He's got a firefighter at a fire at 2 AM seeing two guys setting more fires down the street and instead of calling for another truck to deal with this new threat or sending a couple of guys over with a hose to put out the new fires, he has a fully-suited fireman produce a concealed weapon from somewhere, and shoot the bad guys across the street.
I find his whole scenario ridiculous and I think comes from someone who does not know that much about carrying a concealed weapon.

It is merely to prove a point.

I find your objections and posts on the matter equally ridiculous.

Zecryphon · Dec 13, 2007

mont974x4 said:
It is merely to prove a point.

I find your objections and posts on the matter equally ridiculous.

Good for you. I've shown why I believe Jack's posts are ridiculous, you may now show me how my post is ridiculous. You don't prove a point by providing a ridiculous scenario to support it. I do carry a concealed weapon daily and I was once woken up in the middle of the night by a fully-suited fireman who was clearing a hotel that was supposedly on fire. So I've seen what a fully-suited fireman looks like and believe me, they're not in any way capable of doing what Jack is suggesting they can do and do so safely or legally. What Jack ends up saying is that the fireman should stop doing his job of putting out the fire he was called to put out to break the law by acting as a cop. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

LLWHA · Dec 13, 2007

Giver said:
He at least must have threatened to do violence. Now Jesus was a Jew and at the time was still under the Old Law. The Old Law allowed for violence. Besides Just because Jesus did something does not mean we have the right to the same thing. He is God and as such is responsible for punishment and rewards.

Because he is God, our boss, if he says jump we just say how high. He once told me to quit trying to figure him out and just follow him. Believe me I would be scared to death to knowingly disobey God. So remember he told us: (Matthew 5:39) You have learnt how it was said: Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.
(Matthew 5:43-44) You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

Old Law? To me its Gods Law!!

"Jesus came to abolish the priesthood except for himself alone as the sole representative of the priesthood, being both High-Priest and King, after the order of Melchizedek.
He told his followers including the apostles and it is written in the Gospel of Matthew, that they must not be priests (rabbi) and must not be called father:-

23:8 But be not ye called priest (etc.): for One is your Teacher, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.
23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.

Jesus told his TRUE followers, and it is written, again in Matthew, that they must NOT go to church and must NOT pray in church or in public, as the hypocrites DO.

6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. (They wanted to be seen by men and they have been).

6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy Father in private (telepathically); and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. (Because He will answer you because you obeyed His instructions about how to do it, and when He does you will be so amazed that everyone will notice the change in you).

Therefore the parts of The Old Covenant that relate to the priesthood, churches and the animal sacrifices, for redemption from sin, are now OBSOLETE.

The Law of God has not changed but what is written above.
Therefore the death penalty for certain crimes (including idolatry) still stands today along with the rest of The Law as a deterrent to the committing of those crimes. If the deterrent is removed then those crimes will automatically be committed, and increase, along with a breakdown of order, leading to even more crime." JAH

Satan has you tricked again!!

"The [SIZE=+1]millions[SIZE=+1] of mischievous people who [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]misquote[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] the letters of Paul and say that The Law itself was abolished, and that everyone can therefore break The Law with impunity, just as long as they say the words "I believe that Jesus is the Son of God", [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]will burn[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], exactly as God says, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]for [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]their [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]crimes[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] of misleading people and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]calling Jesus a liar[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], along with the millions who were misled from The Way, by them, because they chose to believe [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] the Truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12). Jesus said, "He that is [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not with[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] (and fighting [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]for[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]) me, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]is[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] (automatically) [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]AGAINST[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] me."

When Paul said that Jesus had saved everyone from [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]the curse[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] of The Law he was referring to the Penalty Clauses of The Covenant which are clearly stated by Moses in Deuteronomy 30:19 "I call heaven and earth [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]to record[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] this day against you, [that] [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]I have set before you life and death[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]blessing and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]cursing[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]live[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]:"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Therefore, exactly as it is stated [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]clearly[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] by the Lamb himself in his Song, everyone of the 144,000 who will be redeemed from the Earth [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]must[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] be [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]keeping[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] The Law, written in the Song of Moses, and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]NO OTHER." JAH[/SIZE]

The First New COMMANDMENT[SIZE=+1]

[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]John[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]
13:34 A new [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]COMMANDment[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] I give unto you, That ye love one another; [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]as I have loved you[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], that ye also love one another.
13:35 [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]By THIS[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] shall all [men] [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]KNOW[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] that ye [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]are[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] my disciples, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]IF[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] ye have love one to another.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]14:15 [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]If ye love me, KEEP my COMMANDments[/SIZE][SIZE=+1].
14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
14:17 [Even] the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]I will come to you[/SIZE][SIZE=+1].

"Christ said that [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]he[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] would come to you, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]NOT[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] give authority to a [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]human substitute[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] which is what the word [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]vicar[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] means. The most misguided of all the many thousands of misguided vicars is the head of them all, whom the others have followed, and he is [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]the pope[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] who [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]teaches idolatry[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] and calls himself "[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Vicar[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]ius Filius Dei" - "the substitute for the Son of God", when [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]God has abolished[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] all substitution; [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]except[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] for Christ himself, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]ALONE[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]; and it is written in the Book of the Prophet Ezekiel, as I have [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]already[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] quoted." JAH

[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]The Second New COMMANDMENT[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]

[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Matthew[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]
7:1 Judge [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]NOT[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], that ye be [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] judged.
7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]G:\Jah\nsong.htm

[/SIZE][SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Why did Jesus tell you not to judge your fellow man?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Because God has already done that in His Law!![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]"God explained [SIZE=+1]to you[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], via Moses, that those of you who will [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]LIVE[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] by those [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Principles[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]The Law[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] will [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]DIE[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] by [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]The Law[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], and, contrary (the [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]opposite[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]) to what you have been told by priests of [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]all[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] denominations, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]He always says what He means[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]HE MEANS EXACTLY WHAT HE SAYS[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]." JAH[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not ADD unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the Commandments of the "I AM" your God which I COMMAND you.[/SIZE]
4:9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;
4:13 And He declared unto you His Covenant, which He commanded you to perform, [even] Ten Commandments; and He wrote them upon two tablets of stone.
4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the "I AM" thy God, thou shalt find [Him], IF thou seek Him with ALL thy heart and with ALL thy soul.
4:30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, [even] in the latter days, if thou turn to the "I AM" thy God, and shalt be obedient unto His voice;
5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the Statutes and Judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and KEEP, and DO them.
5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would respect Me, and keep ALL My Commandments ALWAYS, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

9:24 Ye have been rebellious against the "I AM" from the day that I knew you.

[SIZE=+1]I believe you are changing the Word of God. You are adding to it, something that I believe is a lie.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]You are preaching against the Word of God and His Holy Law.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]I think you should stop what you are doing!![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[/SIZE]

Giver · Dec 15, 2007

LLWHA said:
Old Law? To me its Gods Law!!
(Matthew 5:17) Do not imagine that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete them. I tell you solemnly, till heaven and earth disappear, not one dot, not one little stroke, shall disappear from the Law until its purpose is achieved.

Jesus came to complete the Law, so everything he said is now The Law.

"Jesus came to abolish the priesthood except for himself alone as the sole representative of the priesthood, being both High-Priest and King, after the order of Melchizedek.

He told his followers including the apostles and it is written in the Gospel of Matthew, that they must not be priests (rabbi) and must not be called father:-
(Matthew 23:8-9) You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.

23:8 But be not ye called priest (etc.): for One is your Teacher, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.
23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.

Jesus told his TRUE followers, and it is written, again in Matthew, that they must NOT go to church and must NOT pray in church or in public, as the hypocrites DO.

6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. (They wanted to be seen by men and they have been).

6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy Father in private (telepathically); and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. (Because He will answer you because you obeyed His instructions about how to do it, and when He does you will be so amazed that everyone will notice the change in you).

Therefore the parts of The Old Covenant that relate to the priesthood, churches and the animal sacrifices, for redemption from sin, are now OBSOLETE.

The Law of God has not changed but what is written above.
Therefore the death penalty for certain crimes (including idolatry) still stands today along with the rest of The Law as a deterrent to the committing of those crimes. If the deterrent is removed then those crimes will automatically be committed, and increase, along with a breakdown of order, leading to even more crime." JAH

Satan has you tricked again!!

"The [SIZE=+1]millions[SIZE=+1] of mischievous people who [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]misquote[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] the letters of Paul and say that The Law itself was abolished, and that everyone can therefore break The Law with impunity, just as long as they say the words "I believe that Jesus is the Son of God", [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]will burn[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], exactly as God says, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]for [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]their [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]crimes[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] of misleading people and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]calling Jesus a liar[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], along with the millions who were misled from The Way, by them, because they chose to believe [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] the Truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12). Jesus said, "He that is [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not with[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] (and fighting [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]for[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]) me, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]is[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] (automatically) [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]AGAINST[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] me."I believe you just added words to scripture.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]When Paul said that Jesus had saved everyone from [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]the curse[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] of The Law he was referring to the Penalty Clauses of The Covenant which are clearly stated by Moses in Deuteronomy 30:19 "I call heaven and earth [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]to record[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] this day against you, [that] [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]I have set before you life and death[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]blessing and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]cursing[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]live[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]:"[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Therefore, exactly as it is stated [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]clearly[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] by the Lamb himself in his Song, everyone of the 144,000 who will be redeemed from the Earth [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]must[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] be [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]keeping[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] The Law, written in the Song of Moses, and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]NO OTHER." JAH[/SIZE]

The First New COMMANDMENT

[SIZE=+1]John[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]13:34 A new [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]COMMANDment[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] I give unto you, That ye love one another; [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]as I have loved you[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], that ye also love one another.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]13:35 [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]By THIS[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] shall all [men] [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]KNOW[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] that ye [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]are[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] my disciples, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]IF[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] ye have love one to another.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]14:15 [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]If ye love me, KEEP my COMMANDments[/SIZE][SIZE=+1].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]14:17 [Even] the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]I will come to you[/SIZE][SIZE=+1].[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]"Christ said that [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]he[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] would come to you, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]NOT[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] give authority to a [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]human substitute[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] which is what the word [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]vicar[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] means. The most misguided of all the many thousands of misguided vicars is the head of them all, whom the others have followed, and he is [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]the pope[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] who [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]teaches idolatry[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] and calls himself "[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Vicar[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]ius Filius Dei" - "the substitute for the Son of God", when [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]God has abolished[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] all substitution; [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]except[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] for Christ himself, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]ALONE[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]; and it is written in the Book of the Prophet Ezekiel, as I have [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]already[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] quoted." JAH[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]The Second New COMMANDMENT[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Matthew[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]7:1 Judge [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]NOT[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], that ye be [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] judged.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]G:\Jah\nsong.htm

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Why did Jesus tell you not to judge your fellow man?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Because God has already done that in His Law!![/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]"God explained [SIZE=+1]to you[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], via Moses, that those of you who will [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]LIVE[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] by those [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Principles[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]The Law[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] will [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]DIE[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] by [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]The Law[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], and, contrary (the [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]opposite[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]) to what you have been told by priests of [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]all[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] denominations, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]He always says what He means[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]HE MEANS EXACTLY WHAT HE SAYS[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]." JAH[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not ADD unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the Commandments of the "I AM" your God which I COMMAND you.[/SIZE]
4:9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;
4:13 And He declared unto you His Covenant, which He commanded you to perform, [even] Ten Commandments; and He wrote them upon two tablets of stone.
4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the "I AM" thy God, thou shalt find [Him], IF thou seek Him with ALL thy heart and with ALL thy soul.
4:30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, [even] in the latter days, if thou turn to the "I AM" thy God, and shalt be obedient unto His voice;
5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the Statutes and Judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and KEEP, and DO them.
5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would respect Me, and keep ALL My Commandments ALWAYS, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

9:24 Ye have been rebellious against the "I AM" from the day that I knew you.

[SIZE=+1]I believe you are changing the Word of God. You are adding to it, something that I believe is a lie.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]You are preaching against the Word of God and His Holy Law.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]I think you should stop what you are doing!![/SIZE]

[/SIZE]

Well you have every right to believe what you want. I will do just as Jesus has told me to do.

I would be interested in why you believe I am changing the Word of God and where Im adding to it?

GenemZ · Dec 15, 2007

Giver said:
I would be interested in why you believe I am changing the Word of God and where I’m adding to it?

You are cherry picking, and listening to a voice (who claims to be God) that only agrees with how the verses (when kept isolated from the rest of Scripture) can be made to appear (to the ignorant) that you are agreeing with the Word of God. Its nothing new. Almost every cult began that way.

That is why we need all of the Word of God so we can 'test the spirits.'

.

Calminian · Dec 15, 2007

Giver said:
Well you have every right to believe what you want. I will do just as Jesus has told me to do.

Have you bought that sword yet?

Giver · Dec 15, 2007

Calminian said:
Have you bought that sword yet?

If I bought a sword I would not no how to use it and would just die trying. Jesus has kept my family and me safe for over thirty years, and I hadnt needed a sword or the ability to use one. There is a time coming when I will be killed, but no number or swords, guns, etc. will be able to stop the killing.

Soul Searcher · Dec 15, 2007

HisbyAdoption said:
Not telling men truth can hurt them..In fact what you don't know can kill you.. So I guess I would need to know more of what you are saying before I can answer..

Telling the truth can also hurt people. One must be wise enough to know what course of action to take.

The Essene gospel tells us that if anyone make a lie to lead another into evil then he is guilty but also if a man telleth the truth to lead another into evil he is also guilty even though his words be true.

Soul Searcher · Dec 15, 2007

Giver said:
Jesus personally told me that we were not to hurt anyone for any reason.

The written Word of God tells us the same thing.

(Matthew 5:44) But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;

(Matthew 5:39) You have learnt how it was said: Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.

When God tells us something it is very dangerous to ignore what he says. Right?

In general I agree but there are exceptions, one must sometimes defend others and doing so may require harm to some. This is not something that can be avoided in some cases. Either you allow harm to come to some when you could prevent it or you cause harm to others no matter which choice you make someone would be harmed wisdom tells us who should be protected in such cases.

LLWHA · Dec 15, 2007

Giver said:
Well you have every right to believe what you want. I will do just as Jesus has told me to do.

I would be interested in why you believe I am changing the Word of God and where Im adding to it?

It would appear you are preaching against The Law of God?

It would appear you think you are a law unto yourself?

It would appear that you think you are greater and wiser than God as you toss out His Law and make up your own law?

It does appear you do not want to obey God and you want do things your way?

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not ADD unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the Commandments of the "I AM" your God which I COMMAND you.

12:8 Ye shall not do after all [the things] that we do here this day, every man whatsoever [is] right in his own eyes.

12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

17:13 And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously (in thinking they are a law unto themselves).

17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, [even] that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; [but] at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
17:7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

Gods Bible states right above that you are under a death sentence for not obeying Him and thinking you are a law unto yourself if I understand your posts?

I do not believe that it is Jesus telling you to toss out Gods Law!!

I believe the devil has you tricked into thinking he is Christ.

I'm not 100% sure. I guess it comes down to do you think murders should not be executed because it might hurt them.

If you think that they should not be executed the devil has you tricked.

Giver · Dec 15, 2007

LLWHA said:
It would appear you are preaching against The Law of God?

It would appear you think you are a law unto yourself?

It would appear that you think you are greater and wiser than God as you toss out His Law and make up your own law?

It does appear you do not want to obey God and you want do things your way?

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not ADD unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the Commandments of the "I AM" your God which I COMMAND you.

12:8 Ye shall not do after all [the things] that we do here this day, every man whatsoever [is] right in his own eyes.

12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

17:13 And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously (in thinking they are a law unto themselves).

17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, [even] that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; [but] at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
17:7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

Gods Bible states right above that you are under a death sentence for not obeying Him and thinking you are a law unto yourself if I understand your posts?

I do not believe that it is Jesus telling you to toss out Gods Law!!

I believe the devil has you tricked into thinking he is Christ.

I'm not 100% sure. I guess it comes down to do you think murders should not be executed because it might hurt them.

If you think that they should not be executed the devil has you tricked.

You have a right to think anything you want. You still havent given any evidence that I have ever said anything that would disagree with the Word that Jesus gave.

Soul Searcher · Dec 15, 2007

LLWHA said:
I'm not 100% sure. I guess it comes down to do you think murders should not be executed because it might hurt them.

If you think that they should not be executed the devil has you tricked.

If all killers were killed we would be extinct as a race.

GenemZ · Dec 15, 2007

Giver said:
If I bought a sword I would not no how to use it and would just die trying. Jesus has kept my family and me safe for over thirty years, and I hadnt needed a sword or the ability to use one. There is a time coming when I will be killed, but no number or swords, guns, etc. will be able to stop the killing.

Giver..... I have a question for you.

If you so happened to be hiking on a trail in a park? And, you decide to step behind the bushes because mother nature was calling?

And, as you get ready as you stood there? You spy over the bushes someone kneeling down with a bow and arrow. The bow is pulled and he is aiming right at a group of children hiking down the trail?

If you had a piece of broken branch on the ground about the size of baseball bat? Would you use it to hit the hands of the one before he released his arrow? Knowing full well, that such things as bows and arrows are forbidden to be used in this park?

We are not to hurt anyone for any reason.

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