Giving G-ds glory to G-d

stone

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The holiday season is here again. Everywhere I look and everywhere I go, there is no escaping the fact that Christmas is coming. Many people say its time to get into the holiday spirit. How can I teach to others that much of what is observed at Christmas time has nothing to do with J-sus or his glory?

Last Christmas season, I had a conversation with an old man. He asked me a question about if I have a Christmas tree up yet already or not. I told him that I don’t have a Christmas tree and that I don’t celebrate Christmas. He could not understand why I would not have such things and observe this. I told him that the roots of Christmas have nothing to so with the messiah and have nothing to do with what is taught in the bible. I said that it has pagan roots.

He said to me that it has nothing to do with pagan observances and that the only reason why we have Christmas trees is because someone put decorations on a tree about 100 years ago or so and it was pretty and so it was kept as a Christmas tradition.

Well, I wasn’t in the mood to argue with an old man. I also didn’t have handy with me a bible or any scriptures to show him that what he has been taught about Christmas trees is simply not true.

Jeremiah


10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

10:3 For the customs of the people are vain:
for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

10:4
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.


As a child I spent many many many nights sitting under a decorated Christmas tree, that I helped to decorate, and sung songs about Frosty the snowman and Rudolph the red nosed reigndeer.

What is a snowman in reality? It is an image created and its implied that it will magically get up and walk and talk. After I read through the bible I learned that one thing that is continuously and strickly forbidden again and again is the use of magic. Why would anyone that worships the g-d of Abraham want to do such a thing?

Here, we have a magically flying deer and a magically talking, dancing and walking snowman. Children sing songs to something that can not speak or move. Where does this come from, this glorifying things that don’t talk or walk or move?

Le 26:30
And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

2Ki 23:24
Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.



I remember that good warm feeling inside during the holiday seasons that would come with the anticipation of receiving gifts. I remember that peace that would come and that tranquility of looking into the decorations of the trees and the mood created by the colorful lights. It did seem a bit hypnotic.


Ex 34:14
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:


Now, when a person sings songs about a magical snowman and a magic animal, glory is being given to them. What appears as fun and games and innocent and harmless may strike a jealous nerve with our father in heaven. Now that the truth is revealed to me, there is no possible way that I could ever take part in these activities ever again.

However, it does seem innocent to sing a song about a snowman and a reign deer. After all, its only a song sung to entertain children. I read that songs were made about King David. Surely father was pleased with this.

I’ve seen innocent songs about many things for the sake of entertainment.

The issue now becomes, what is crossing the line?

Le 19:4
Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God.


Le 26:1
Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.


Is it that magic that everyone claims that Is in the air around this time of the season the glory that is being given to another than G-d?

Right now, at this moment in time, it is my understanding that this is the glory that is being given to Santa Claus but should be given to G-d.

Santa Claus is a complete deceptive teaching. This Mr. Claus guy is not a real person. He can’t speak, or talk or even walk. Why teach children to sing songs about a man that uses magic and can see you when your sleeping and can see you when your awake and can see if you’ve been bad or good so be good for goodness sake? This sounds to me like a description of G-d and his Ruach HaKodesh.


1Ch 16:26
For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.




I will not cause my father in heaven to become angry with me. I will not make my father jeolous and give his glory to something that does not exist.

Now I have shown using scriptures why I will not participate in this day that is suppose to be a day to celebrate the birth of Y-shua into the earth. I would like to see his birth celebrated without using pagan traditions, so that the l-rd will be pleased.

Mt 22:37
He told him, "`You are to love ADONAI your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.'
 

Tangeloper

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Thank you, Stone, for sharing your thoughts on this subject. As you can imagine this is a subject I am contemplating right now, and I appreciate greatly reading what you have posted here...

I hope no-one here is offended by the Christmas greetings in my user title and such. Of course, in our family we strive to make G-d and the miracle of the Messiah's birth the center of our celebration, but nonetheless I can completely understand where you are coming from... This is something I have to think and pray about...

In your opinion, do you (or anyone else here) think that it is at all possible to celebrate Christmas while staying away from the obvious pagan inspired traditions?
 
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jgonz

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In addition to Stone's post, I've been thinking about some things too... I'm not sure if I'll get out in writing what I've been feeling, so forgive me in advance if I mess it up... :sorry:

So many people get depressed during the holidays (Christian too). They feel they've been let down by G-d or they've messed up somehow because they don't feel G-d during the Christmas season. It occurred to me that since G-d hates a mixture of pagan and G-dly (there are SO many Scriptures to support that), and removes Himself from it... then how could He be a participant of Christmas?

Maybe the reason that people get depressed during the Christmas season is that G-d has removed Himself and they can't feel G-d or His love... and they're reaching for the "spirit" of Christmas... which isn't G-dly at all but a false feeling, an illusion, an "angel of light" so to speak... :o
 
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Tangeloper

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Even when it is the wrong time to celebrate Yeshua birth? http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/sukkoth.htm
Well, that's part of why I was asking. :) I have long known that Dec. 24th/25th was NOT that actual date of Jesus' birth... That much they did teach us. ;)

Thank you for referencing that article. I think I ran across that same article in the FAQs, but had forgotten to bookmark it...

Does anyone have a link that can explain to me more about the Jewish Calendar? I have read how it corresponds with the lunar cycles and such, but I was wanting to understand more about how the days and years run...

Do you know of anyone who celebrates, or does anything special to remember the birth of Jesus at the proper time?

To tell you the truth I'm feeling like crying right now when I contemplate never celebrating Christmas again...

I personally love celebrating Christmas and have never felt away from the L-rd at this time of the year... If anything I feel perhaps closer to G-d than at other times... This could also be due to the fact that I used to be very involved in church services as a soloist and such. I do understand that the sadness may indeed be a process of understanding and letting go... Change is not always comfortable. Particularly when it is something that will cause us to grow spiritually.

Thank you for everyone's patience with me. After 35 years I think this will perhaps be the hardest part for me to accept -- even though I fully understand what everyone here has said.
 
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stone

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Remember to take baby steps. Take it slow and easy and listen to your heart.

The 1st christmas that came up after i had heard g-ds voice and researched Messianic Judaism, i still let my daughter setup her little tree in her room, but had done away with the larger tree that usually goes in the living room. I didn't put out any lights outside either.

The next year i completely eliminated everything that had to do with christmas trees, santa and reindeer and replaced giving gifts at christmas morning to giving gifts each day throughout hannakah. I just had to use something to replace Christmas for my daughter, so she doesn't think daddy went off the deep end. lol
 
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Hadassah

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Yeah I know where ya'll are coming from - except my dilemma stems from I can't articulate WHY we don't celebrate, just that we don't atm (german isn't strong enough for that)

I was asked in my verbal testing yesterday when I said one of my hobbies is cooking, if I had made any "Weihnachts Stollen" yet.. I said no, we were making "Berliners" (Doughnuts) 'Why? they're so good and appropriate for the holiday!?' I just kind of shrugged... maybe in 6 months I'll be articulate enough if I can keep up at class. :)
 
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MyZz

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Maybe one of the erasons that people get depressed over Christmas is because they are hoping to get peace out of things which have nothing to do with christmas anywaylike the father christmas ,snowmen etc.And like someone mentioned already those things will never satisfy though they may lure the senses.Additionally if such people arent close to God during the year then how can theye xpect to suddenly feel something just cos its that time of the year.Other peoples sadness may come from the fact that they might be having to face family get togethers without a loved one or two,esp if theres been a recent loss in the family.
I also dont think that observing Yeshuas birth is pagan perse which may stem that when I used to celebrate christmas I always steered cleared of such stuff and just concentrated on the awesomeness of Yeshuas birth.
The way I stand now is that I dont have christmas celebrations at my house cos it doesnt make sense to me since its not even the time of his birth.I do not have a tree due to the connotations it has with jeremiahs admonitions etc but I must admit that I'm not sure how pagan it is if all u have it there is as decoration and the pretty lights.Now if people are gonna sing to it or dance round it or something then that is weird.This Christmas I will cheerfully join in with celebrations at my mother house or anywhere else for that matter if what is being done is in honour of Yeshua and doesnt have pagan connotations attached to it.
So now I will go off to sing O Holy night as I do the dishes :p LOL
 
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Bon

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stone said:
Jeremiah 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Many people believe that this is a reference to the pagan roots of the christmas tree.
It is not.
The tree was fashioned into an idol. A graven image.

Not that I condone the Christmas tree or anything to do with the Christmas season, because I do not.
Like Visionary, I wholy believe that Yeshua was more likely born at Sukkot.

If you read on a few more verses it clarifies what the tree was used for.

Jeremiah 10:5 Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field, and they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk.
Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good."


We must be careful and use scripture accurately to defend our beliefs.

Bon
 
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ContraMundum

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In December I celebrate both Chanukah and Christmas- but I don't have tree or "Santa", because I just don't get into it much (never have and didn't grow up with it anyway) and I think that "Santa Claus" denigrates the real St Nicholas. I just get to go to church to remember the birth of the Messiah on Dec. 25. No biggie to me, because I'll go to church for anything.

(Sure, everyone knows that Yeshua wasn't born on the 25th. But, this is the traditional date for celebrating that event, nothing more. I believe the dating of the Christmass is a matter of adiaphora, and thus, the church has been free to choose any suitable day it wishes, and for the sake of fellowship and solidarity with my Gentile friends in Messiah, I publically remember the birth of Yeshua on that day.)
 
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visionary

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When you battle the evils in the world and in your life, trying to life purely for the Lord, how can you reconcile your conscience with the inconsistencies of known fables, legends, and traditions based on lies? We all know who is the father of lies. For if we have reconciled the matter in our own heart and compromised a higher standard that the Lord has brought to your attention, will the Lord trust you to stand strong for His truth in words and deeds?
 
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stone

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Many people believe that this is a reference to the pagan roots of the christmas tree.
It is not.
The tree was fashioned into an idol. A graven image.

Not that I condone the Christmas tree or anything to do with the Christmas season, because I do not.
Like Visionary, I wholy believe that Yeshua was more likely born at Sukkot.

If you read on a few more verses it clarifies what the tree was used for.

Jeremiah 10:5 Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field, and they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk.
Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good."

We must be careful and use scripture accurately to defend our beliefs.

Bon

The verse you provided only proves that what is said over and over about the practices of idolatry and what they worship, in that they can not speak, etc. This is something that is repeated many times throughout scripture. That same can be said about any engraven image. This verse could apply to any image made of gold, silver, stone or wood. The verse is making the point again that these things the heathen create, and glorify, are nothing to be afraid of because they are done in vain. The scripture i provided is easily understood to be decorating a tree, not carving a tree followed by decorating it.


HIgh Places
 
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Hadassah

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It used to be that palm trees were taken down and decorated. Unfortunately I read that one in an older encyclopedia or reference book and it is in the US so I cannot reference it off hand.
Christmas trees here in Germany were called at one point simply Tannenbaum (-en), but now I have noticed a turn towards calling them ,,Christbaume (-n)''

It is true that once the trees themselves were reverenced etc, which is how we got the whole Yule and Mistletoe thing going on, as well as having greenery and the tree in homes.. it was adopted some say by Luther, others by another saint.. regardless to me, the fact remains that there was once a pagan connotation.

Knowing the background of some of my family members (Paganism) back when, and the pull towards that for me, I have to remove it completly from my home and life.

I do know however that there are/were some Jews that during WWII were assimilated or otherwise in hiding, or Messianic who did keep Christmas trees in their homes in Germany and Austrian territories and lit 8 candles on them only, and elsewise decorated as everyone else. Evidence of this is displayed in the Holocaust museum in Berlin.

Personally though, I just can't see doing that.
 
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