No what you are describing here is the beginning of being justified.
Sanctification is the process of learning to be obedient to the will of God.
This is a truth that you have not understood. That Justification is a declaration of God saying you are not guilty. This happens through the blood of Christ before you have done anything other than believe. Notice the following passage.
(Heb 13:12) So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood.
This sanctification is through His blood.
Kindly look at Thayer's Greek here for the word sanctify.
G37
ἁγιάζω
hagiazō
Thayer Definition:
1) to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
2a) consecrate things to God
2b) dedicate people to God
3) to purify
3a) to cleanse externally
3b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
3c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul
I hope you saw number 2.
This is what happens to all who at the moment they trusted Christ, they where seperated from the world to Christ.
Heres another clear-cut passage that plainly tells us we have been sactified
(Heb 10:10) And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
I argue from those passages that sanctification is also by faith and not only by obedience.
Great, neither do I. What does that have to do with the conversation? When you are in the mist of commiting sin it would be hard to convince anyone that the person sinning is filled with the Holy Spirit.
The point is...the indwelling of the Spirit and being filled with the Spirit are two different things.
Your welcome
So you're a New Testament Christian only? Maybe you could help me then by telling me which books of the Old Testament are good to ignore or which do not apply anymore.
Its seems you dont understand. Do you still live under the Old Mosaic law? I don't.
BTW, as long as you aren't breaking the law, you can't be under the law which leads me to ask, have you stopped sinning completely?
I have sinned, just as every one has sinned. But if I could stop sinning, it would do me no good, seeing I have indwelling sin. This is where grace comes in...God will not imput sin to those who trust by faith...thats the good new for you RND. I argue that from this passage.
(Rom 4:3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
(Rom 4:4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
(Rom 4:5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(Rom 4:6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
(Rom 4:7) Saying, Blessed
are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
(Rom 4:8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
How does the "justified believer" know what sin is? And does the
"justified believer" need to repent of the sin?
The justifed believer knows sin by the indwelling Spirit of God. And yes believers repent.
(1Co 2:9) But, as it is written, "What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him"--
(1Co 2:10) these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
(1Co 2:11) For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
(1Co 2:12) Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.
(1Co 2:13) And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
(1Co 2:14) The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
(1Co 2:15) The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.
(1Co 2:16) "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
What standards are used by those that are not saved, but have a desire to get to know Jesus Christ? What standards are generally used to point out they 'sins' of these people?
Do you comprehend the following text?
(Rom 5:20) Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
(Rom 10:4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
(Rom 10:5) For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them.
Boogeyman God? How pagan.
Don't know what you mean by this.
Love is the fulfilling of the law.
Correct.
Huh? You mean if I don't agree with you that the law of love that we are to have towards one another doesn't stem from the 10 commandments that expresses God's nature and character then you won't agree that "we can still love one another or have the ability to love one another, including our enemies, then there must be a law that is required to be fulfilled."
I don't agree that the law of love had its beging or derived from the ten commandments. Thats not what Christ said. You have it backwards. The ten grew out of agape.
(Mat 22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
(Mat 22:38) This is the first and great commandment.
(Mat 22:39) And the second
is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(Mat 22:40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
What then is that law that is required to be fulfilled?
All of the Mosaic law.
(Mat 22:40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
I'm fairly certain that would be the commandments as summed up in Exodus 20 and expanded in the Gospels of Luke, Matthew and Mark.
I believe its not that but this.
(Mat 22:36) Master, which
is the great commandment in the law?
(Mat 22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
(Mat 22:38) This is the first and great commandment.
(Mat 22:39) And the second
is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(Mat 22:40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
What other standard is there? The first four commandments show us how to love God, the second six describe how we are to love other men.
Christ spirtualized and intensified these laws, He did not do away with them. He equated hating another with murder. He equated just looking with lust as actually commiting fornication. These laws weren't done away with they were expanded and intensified.
Ok fine. If you want to follow after law and perform it go ahead. But you know you must do it all don't you? You must be perfect. And even then you will not gain heaven.
(Gal 3:10) For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed
is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
(Gal 3:11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God,
it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
(Gal 3:12) And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
So we can drink as much cow's blood as we want and sleep with our sisters? Can we sleep with menstruating women? He did away with ALL the Mosaic law?
Drinking cows blood? Sleep with our sisters? You have got to be joking? Sleep with menstuating women? I wont even answer such foolishness.
I never said Christ did away with All Mosaic Law. I said he fulfilled it.
Also weren't the 10 Commandments, or more specifically, the character of God's law revealed before Mt. Sinai?
Show me a verse that says the ten are Gods character please. They had an inner sense of what was right and wrong. But over time because of sin, righteousness became obscured. Thats why God gave a written law, that sin would be come increasingly sinful.
(Rom 5:20) Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
If not, how did Joseph know that sleeping with another man's wife was sin? How did Cain know murder was wrong? What standard did God use to condemn Sodam and Gomorrah?
Like I said, they where given an inner sense of righteousness and sin.
(Rom 1:19) For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
(Rom 1:20) For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
How about climbing down from your high horse and simply answering the question?
Many wonder why law followers are not loving people. Its because they follow the law and not love.
I answered your question...
Regarding your analogy of the little old lady that is righteous you stated, "The Spirit will teach all of Gods righteous to live a righteous life to His glory and not their own glory."
I merely asked what standards does the Holy Spirit use to lead and teach us by. Is that a question you can answer?
I will let the bible break it down for you.
(1Jn 2:26) I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
(1Jn 2:27) But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie--just as it has taught you, abide in him.
The Holy Spirit that dwells with in you through your union with Christ does not need stone tablets...He speaks to you in your inner man.
I see, so the summation that James makes in verse 11 has nothing to do with the best way to interact and love other people?
Wow!
What can be clearly seen in James is a contrast of the ten commandment law and the Law of Christ.
James 2:8 is the Law of Christ. {
(Gal 6:2) Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.}
(Jas 2:8) If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
James 2:9-11 is the ten commandments or law of works.
(Jas 2:9) But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
(Jas 2:10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one
point, he is guilty of all.
(Jas 2:11) For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
James 2:12 is the Law of Christ...being found in Him.
(Jas 2:12) So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
There are some that feel it is quite loving to marry off young 12-13 year old girls to older men in some religious sects. What standards would we then use to decide whether this is right or wrong?
There are some that see no problem in taking something that doesn't belong to them. By what standard would we use to decide if this is right or wrong behavior? Now, in neither case can we find love. What standard do we use to show that these acts do not revolve around love?
Only after you kindly answer the question that you did not answer.
Do you fulfill the law by following after the ten lines or by being loving?
And still in effect then.
Well then how do you understand this passage concerning the ten commandments for the believer?
(Rom 10:4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
(1Ti 1:9) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
(1Ti 1:10) For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
I see. So you agree then that the principal of the 10 Commandments hasn't been done away with but rather "spirtualized?"
I agree that this is clearly the case. So rather than being dome away with the 10 Commandments have been expanded and intensified into something much deeper and spiritual.
Thanks for agreeing.
I never said the ten where gone. We fulfill them by being loving and extending grace to other underserving people, through faith. Our focus is Christ not law. If its law, then Christ died in vain.
AT
