More evidence for a young earth

Someone else (Rize) asked how the armchair scientists would explain the following. I, too, would like to hear the explanations, so I figured the question would get more attention if it was posted as a new thread. Here's are the links and relevant quotes.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/docs/v22n2_geology.asp

The radiocarbon (14C) results are listed in Table 1. Obviously, there was detectable radiocarbon in all the fossil wood samples, the calculated 14C ‘ages’ ranging from 20,700 ± 1,200 to 28,820 ± 350 years BP (Before Present).

For sample UK-HB-1, collected from on top of the belemnite index fossil (Figure 5), the results from the two laboratories are reasonably close to one another within the error margins, and when averaged yield a 14C ‘age’ almost identical (within the error margins) to the 22,730 ± 170 years BP of sample UK-HB-2.

Alternatively, if all four results on the three samples are averaged, the 14C ‘age’ is almost identical (within the error margins) to the Geochron result for UK-HB-1 of 24,005 ± 600 years BP. This suggests that a reasonable estimate for the 14C ‘age’ of this fossil wood would be 23,000–23,500 years BP.

Quite obviously this radiocarbon ‘age’ is drastically short of the ‘age’ of 189 million years for the index fossils found with the fossil wood, and thus for the host rock.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/docs/v21n3_date-dilemma.asp

Because this fossil wood now appears impregnated with silica and hematite, it was uncertain whether any original organic carbon remained, especially since it is supposed to be 225–230 million years old. Nevertheless, a piece of the fossil wood was sent for radiocarbon (14C) analysis to Geochron Laboratories in Cambridge, Boston (USA), a reputable internationally-recognized commercial laboratory. This laboratory uses the more sensitive accelerator mass spectrometry (AMS) technique, recognized as producing the most reliable radiocarbon results, even on minute quantities of carbon in samples.

The laboratory staff were not told exactly where the fossil wood came from, or its supposed evolutionary age, to ensure there would be no resultant bias. Following routine lab procedure, the sample (their lab code GX–23644) was treated first with hot dilute hydrochloric acid to remove any carbonates, and then with hot dilute caustic soda to remove any humic acids or other organic contaminants. After washing and drying, it was combusted to recover any carbon dioxide for the radiocarbon analysis.

The analytical report from the laboratory indicated detectable radiocarbon had been found in the fossil wood, yielding a supposed 14C ‘age’ of 33,720 ± 430 years BP (before present). This result had been ‘13C corrected’ by the lab staff, after they had obtained a d13CPDB value of –24.0 ‰.9 This value is consistent with the analyzed carbon in the fossil wood representing organic carbon from the original wood, and not from any contamination. Of course, if this fossil wood really were 225–230 million years old as is supposed, it should be impossible to obtain a finite radiocarbon age, because all detectable 14C should have decayed away in a fraction of that alleged time — a few tens of thousands of years.
 
Originally posted by Pete Harcoff
Indeed.

Not all of us are expert geologists. Give us time.

Okay, sorry to rush you. I'm saving a place for the reasonable explanation. I figure it will go very nicely right next to the example of a transitional series from 99.9875% of the fossil record I challenged people to provide -- that is, if anyone ever finds one.
 
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Morat

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  Of course, given the sheer number of people Nick has been adding to ignore lately, one wonders if he'll even notice a substantive reply.

 
Okay, sorry to rush you. I'm saving a place for the reasonable explanation. I figure it will go very nicely right next to the example of a transitional series from 99.9875% of the fossil record I challenged people to provide -- that is, if anyone ever finds one.

  I can't believe he has the guts to hit this one again. Since I'm on ignore, I suggest you ask him what was wrong with the ones he was shown, and how he plans to determine polyploidy in fossils.

 
 
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FordPrefect

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Originally posted by npetreley
Okay, sorry to rush you. I'm saving a place for the reasonable explanation. I figure it will go very nicely right next to the example of a transitional series from 99.9875% of the fossil record I challenged people to provide -- that is, if anyone ever finds one.

so you are saying that you accept the 0.0125% of transitional fossil series that does exist? :)

I am no biologist, nor am I a geologist. So I can't help you here, however, I did note the assumption about a stronger magnetic field in the past skewing the dates so much that the fossilized wood dates can be adjusted to fit the time of the flood. I was under the impression that there was no real proof of this assumption, that ocean floor geology had debunked that idea and therefore should not be used as it has been.

As to why there are 23,000 year old wood fossils in 89mil year old rock, I could not tell you.
 
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kaotic

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Originally posted by npetreley
Someone else (Rize) asked how the armchair scientists would explain the following. I, too, would like to hear the explanations, so I figured the question would get more attention if it was posted as a new thread. Here's are the links and relevant quotes.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/docs/v22n2_geology.asp



http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/docs/v21n3_date-dilemma.asp

Dang why doesn't everyone post stuff that that site everyone knows its not credible its a christians site to discredit science without any evidence. Stop posting these sites that lie about everything just to make science look bad.
 
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Pete Harcoff

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A few points:

From the first article:

"The woody internal structure was clearly evident, thus the samples were not the remains of roots that had grown into this weathered rock from trees on the present land surface. When sampled, the fossil wood readily splintered, diagnostic of it still being ‘woody’ in spite of its impregnation with iron minerals during fossilisation."

Out of curiosity, would 200-million year old wood have a composition like this? I mean, I own a piece of fossilized wood that's solid as a rock. It certainly isn't "woody" by any stretch. Furthermore, tree roots tend to be rather "woody" in their own regard (I've misidentified roots before as logs).

"Three samples of fossil wood were collected from the south wall of Hornton Quarries, one from immediately adjacent to the belemnite fossil"

Again, out of curiosity, why didn't they ship off a fossil belemnite to have carbon dating performed on it as well? Or another fossil? Why only the wood?


Also, I notice that Snelling conveniently waves off the fact that these carbon dates don't fall in line with an assumed flood of 4500 years ago (by claiming stronger magnetic shielding back them would've caused slower decay rates), while trying to completely dismiss any argument for contamination. Seems like a pot-kettle-black situation to me.

edit: My bad, those quotes were from the first link, not the second.
 
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Originally posted by sulphur
Carbon dating is not reliable beyond 40 000 years. If want to hit the big time try discrediting potassium-argon dating

It's not reliable beyond 40,000 years because there shouldn't be any detectable C14 left by that time. That's the point.
 
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kaotic

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