Schools reject evolution because of pressure from creationist parents

Originally posted by Stormy
Serious question.

What is this ancestors scientific name?

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Honest answer: depends on who you ask.

There's currently a lot of debate going on about the preposed "split" between humans and our chimp cousins and the recent discovery of Sahelanthropus tchadensis.

Previously, it was thought that Australopithecus afarensis (aka Lucy) could be part of the human evolutionary "line", but now there's a lot of debate that afarensis is actually an extinct off-shoot, and that the human/chimp split took place over 6 million years ago.

I see you have met the chad fossil I was referring to earlier.

Read your answer to me Pete and maybe it will help you understand why evolution should not be taught in schools.

Honest answer: depends on who you ask.

There's currently a lot of debate going on

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I would be opposed also to the teaching of creation in our schools.

Originally posted by Stormy
I see you have met the chad fossil I was referring to earlier.

Read your answer to me Pete and maybe it will help you understand why evolution should not be taught in schools.

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Well, this is where you and I differ. The theory of evolution is NOT in any way, shape, or form, in doubt here. Rather, the history of hominid development still lacks all the details (which, science continues to fill in as newer evidence is produced).

Likewise, quantum mechanics still lacks certain details, but does this mean we should not teach kids about that?

Originally posted by chickenman
woah, you just broke my irony meter. Phillip Johnson and his opinions on science?

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Bzzzt... I wasn't the one who said geologists came to those conclusions. If you're going to say that's what geologists did, then produce geologist quotes, not quotes from lawyers.

I just have to say that if we didn't teach our kids science it would be a really boring world. Evolution is something that everyone should learn even if you believe in god or gods. Alot of people that believe in god now also believe in evolution. If we just told the kids that a god made everyone in a poof they would have more questions like WHY, HOW.

Originally posted by npetreley
Bzzzt... I wasn't the one who said geologists came to those conclusions. If you're going to say that's what geologists did, then produce geologist quotes, not quotes from lawyers.

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Bzzzt, look at post #75.

And bzzzt, look at the original article I linked (it's even from a creationist site).

And bzz-*pop!*

Darn, my buzzer broke.

Here's a link, explaining how some teachers are buckling under the pressure from political extremists.

http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/12_02/create.shtml

Originally posted by Pete Harcoff
Bzzzt, look at post #75.

And bzzzt, look at the original article I linked (it's even from a creationist site).

And bzz-*pop!*

Darn, my buzzer broke.

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Okay, thanks, I didn't see that. But I was responding to the comment that I was being hypocritical for rejecting a lawyer's quote.

Ok, I know this conversation has been going on, but I think I'll just be rude and voice my opinion right in the middle of it.

I think evolution should be taught in schools, but, under certain conditions.

Schools should stop using experiments that have been proven to be faked as proof for evolution, I think most people would agree that that is just good science, you don't use information you know is faked.

Schools should teach that there are some problems with evolution, like the very low odds of certain things evolving. They don't need to say that it's impossible, but do tell students what the true odds are. In my school, the teacher made it seem like new, helpful genes were just popping up all over the place and within a matter of years an animal would be new and improved. No, my school isn’t just dumb, this was the state cirruculum, complete with video cassette that showed animals evolving into different forms in one generation.

Evolution should not be taught to young children. I first learned evolution in the fourth grade. I was 9. I would have believed anything the teacher said then, and I did because the teacher wouldn’t lie! If schools want to teach evolution to high schoolers, that’s fine. By then people are old enough to determine for themselves what they believe.

Teachers should be respectful of student’s religious beliefs. A teacher has power over the future of your life. They can fail you, which can keep you out of things like National Honor Society and even the college you want to go to. It would be easy for a teacher to intimidate a student into saying things that they usually would be opposed to.

Anyway, that’s just my opinion. I happen to believe in a literal creation myself, but I don’t want to hide myself under a rock and pretend that no one else believes differently.

Oh, and btw, I hope you like the on topicness on this post

Hmmmm....It's the "Odds Game" again.

Tell us, what are the odds that all the stars in the Milky Way are positioned just the way they are? Extremely low, wouldn't you say? Are we to play the same "Odds Game", and dismiss or diminish the existance of the Milky Way just as readily?

If it was up to YEC we would be learning that we are in the center of the universe and that everything revoles around the earth.

Here's another look at the "Odds Game".

The chances for the unfortunate victims of the sniper in the MD area, are about 1 in 5,000,000, based on population in that region. Multiply that by the chances that someone has no respect for human life, and the odds realy soar, against that type of thing happening. The "Odds Game" does not negate the tragic fact of their injuries and deaths.

But even if evolution is true, which even as a Christian I sometimes agree with, what started the pool of ooze that all life sprang from in the first place. Don't know? it was God. I rest my case. Even evolution came from a creator, so it was created and in fact is creationism. besides, a first human of the species had to be born even if it was from a monkey right. ADAM, and in turn ADAM had to have sex with something, what did he have sex with to make the next human, that's even more baffling. Maybe that should be a topic in school all in it's self.

Originally posted by RoachTron
Don't know? it was God. I rest my case.

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I absolutely love this logic.

Science is unsure, therefore God.
Science hasn't figured it out yet, therefore God.
Science is debating the topic, therefore God.

besides, a first human of the species had to be born even if it was from a monkey right. ADAM, and in turn ADAM had to have sex with something, what did he have sex with to make the next human, that's even more baffling.

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Species don't "suddenly" give birth to another species. Species evolve in populations, not individuals.

How can a species evolve into a new species, wouldn't a first have to be born. I would love to be enlightened, I was taught evolution in school and I can't remember. I think this brings up another point about learning something in school. Do the kids care? I remember when I was learning this subject, I cared more about the skating rink on Friday night and what girls were going to be there, not about Darwin and his theories. So do the kids even care that the grown-ups are fighting for their right? Is this more about the "cause" or the children.

How can a species evolve into a new species, wouldn't a first have to be born. I would love to be enlightened, I was taught evolution in school and I can't remember. I think this brings up another point about learning something in school. Do the kids care? I remember when I was learning this subject, I cared more about the skating rink on Friday night and what girls were going to be there, not about Darwin and his theories. So do the kids even care that the grown-ups are fighting for their right? Is this more about the "cause" or the children.

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   Short answer: Individuals don't evolve, populations do.

   If you want a good example of the idea, look at ring species.

 

 

I kind of see where you are coming from, RoachTron.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you are saying that whatever the specific process or mechanisms, God is responsible for the origins of it all. If this is what you mean, I agree 100%.

BTW, welcome to the boards!

Originally posted by RoachTron

Don't know? it was God. I rest my case.

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And this is different than an ancient human using the same logic to "explain" lightning, volcanos, plagues, floods, the diversity of life, the formation of the solar system... how exactly?

The God of the Gaps argument should be as much an embarrasment to every thinking human as the reports of alien abductions by now.