Thomas: "My Lord and My God"

About the public's opinions about the goodness of Jesus:

from the Christian research group, Barna Research Online:

Americans’ beliefs about the life of Jesus

- More than two out of every five adults (43%) believe that Jesus Christ lived on earth He committed sins. (2001)

- Conversely, 41% of Americans believe that Jesus lived a sinless life on earth. (2001)

- Baptists (63%), born again Christians (62%), Bible readers (59%), Republicans (56%), non-mainline attenders (55%), church attenders (54%), and those living in the South (47%) are segments of the population more likely than average to believe that Jesus lived a sinless life. (2001)

- Catholics are less likely than adults nationwide to believe that Jesus lived without sin (33% of Catholics versus 41% of U.S. adults). (2001)

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Hello and God bless,

What the Father revealed to apostle Peter regarding Jesus is that Jesus is the SON of the living God - NOT "God the Son."Thus, it is NOT true that apostle Peter LEARNED from God that Jesus is God. Now, where did Thomas LEARN that Jesus is God? Please show me the verse.

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Actually, I believe that "Son of God" in itself denotes 'deity'. One has to look no further than-

John5:18 "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill Him, becuase he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was His Father, making himself equal with God."

Note that this is an interjection from John the narrator, NOT a quote of the Jews.

..cf..

Mark14:62 “I am”, said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?’ he asked. ‘You have heard the blasphemy”

BTW, did apostles Peter and Thomas talk DIRECTLY to God? Where is your PROOF that they did?

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The very fact that the Holy scriptures are inspired. This is what "inspired" means? Once again, Jn1:1. Or better yet <bait for argument> Jn8:58.

Why do you INSIST what you like to believe? Jesus said he is a MAN (John 8:40). Jesus also said that the Father alone is the ONLY true God (John 17:3). Therefore, Jesus is telling the man NOT to call him GOOD because he is a MAN - NOT God.

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You have to take into account what I said earlier with Heb1:2. Also note John14:7-9. How could this be accomplished without being "good"...

_______________

God bless you--FM

Ed... you still have not answered these things

Posted by ed: I know what is in the Bible fow. But that is not my question. I said you are NOT being RATIONAL because you said that this "thing" who is at the the side of the Father is "one and the SAME thing as the Father." BTW, what is this you cal "thing" fow?

you are the one that refered to 'thing'

Posted by ed: "Then show me the verse which says that the Father BECAME the SON."

The Bible says: (John 14:5-10) Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" Jesus answered, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

The Bible says: (John 1:1-5, 14) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The Bible says: (Revelation 19:13) He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

The Bible says: (Phil 2:5-10) Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in APPEARANCE as a man, he HUMBLED HIMSELF and BECAME obedient to death--even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (Reminder: God will not give His glory to another... He is the LORD and Him alone), that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The Bible says this was necessary: (Hebrews 9:14) How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

The Bible says: (Hebrews 9:16-17) In the cse of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while THE ONE WHO MADE IT is living.

Did God not make the covenant???

The Bible says: (Rev 19:16) On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. (Remeber God says that I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. (Isaiah 42:8)


well ed.... Christ says that HE is the Alapha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... the First and the Last..... as does the Father. I ask you ed... are they not claiming the saim thing??? if two things come in first in a race... are they not of equal speed??? simple

ed's reply: If that's how you think, do you admit then that you believe there are two "Gods" whom you pass off as "things?"

No ed... that's not how I think.. They both say it ed... God says that there are no others... therefore they are one... they are both the Alpha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... ther FIRST AND THE LAST!!!

Why did God create the earth ed??? It was because He desired a love relationship with a creation... Love ed... "Through Him all things were made that have been made" (John 1)... God is Love (1st John 4:8)... and through His love, He came to us. (also John 1) There are not two separate 'things' as you say ed... there is one Living God who is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. He is undescribable... and says that He IS.

When God made Himself a man... it was His love.... Jesus Christ... and He subjected himself to endure mans punishment, and subservience. This was His sacrifice, that He became our sins... God the Father can not be in the presence of sin, much less become it. Therefore, out of His uncomprehendible love... He made Himself nothing. He came to us and His name is Jesus Christ-Emmanuel-God with us: Yes... God can do that, even becoming something on earth, while at the same time being God the Father in Heaven. Yes... God can do any number of "evens" that one could fathom asking.

Christ, who being in very nature God, who made Himself nothing, became subject to God the Father... and at the end when all things were finished, was taken again into glory and given the title KING OF KINGS AND LORD OR LORDS... ALL CAPS ED. This is the title reserved for the LORD HIMSELF... WHO WILL NOT GIVE HIS GLORY TO ANOTHER... IT IS THE TITLE OF MY LORD CHRIST WHO IS RISEN FROM THE GRAVE HAVING DEFEATED DEATH... AND THE KEYS OF DEATH AND HADES RESIDE IN HIS HANDS! And after it is all over... Christ will subject Himself to the Father thus the Father becomes all in all. Christ is God... who made>HIMSELF<a man... and who was then again glorified by Him from whom He came

I believe

Now, where did Thomas LEARN that Jesus is God? Please show me the verse.

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We'll start in Mark 2:1-12

A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2 So many gathered that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3 Some men came, bringing to him a paralytic, carried by four of them. 4 Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus and, after digging through it, lowered the mat the paralyzed man was lying on. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."MK 2:6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

MK 2:8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, "Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, `Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, `Get up, take your mat and walk'? 10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins . . . ." He said to the paralytic, 11 "I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home." 12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, "We have never seen anything like this!"

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In verse 5 Jesus tells the man that his sins are forgiven.

In verse 7 the teachers of the law challenges Jesus' right to forgive sins, stating that only God can do this.

Verses 8-11 Jesus states and demonstrates that he has the authority to forgive sins by healing the man. which is something that only God can do.

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Next, in John 8:12-58; Jesus has a long dissertation with the Pharisees about his mission, role, and his authority. ( I won't paste the whole account due to it's size ) . But I want to bring your attention down to verse 58;&nbsp;

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

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Here we see Jesus taking the divine name from Exodus 3:14 and applying it to himself. The reaction of the pharisees is by stoning Jesus for blasphemy.

Now we go to John 10:25-33;

Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."JN 10:31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

JN 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

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In this section we see Jesus claiming that his Father ( who is God ) and himself are one and the same. Which once again the Jews begin to sone Jesus for blasphemy. But what's important here is that the statement of the Jews is very clear. They understood very well that Jesus was claiming to be God.

It was from these incidents that Thomas learned that Jesus is God, which he himself declared when he saw the risen Lord with the words "My Lord and my God!"

Originally posted by Jesusong
We'll start in Mark 2:1-12 &nbsp;&nbsp;

A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2 So many gathered that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3 Some men came, bringing to him a paralytic, carried by four of them. 4 Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus and, after digging through it, lowered the mat the paralyzed man was lying on. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."MK 2:6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

MK 2:8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, "Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, `Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, `Get up, take your mat and walk'? 10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins . . . ." He said to the paralytic, 11 "I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home." 12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, "We have never seen anything like this!"

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In verse 5 Jesus tells the man that his sins are forgiven.

In verse 7 the teachers of the law challenges Jesus' right to forgive sins, stating that only God can do this.

Verses 8-11 Jesus states and demonstrates that he has the authority to forgive sins by healing the man. which is something that only God can do.

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Jesus got this authority from God. He doesn't make the claim of being God. As per v.10, Jesus says the son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins. The source of that authority is found in other verses.

Next, in John 8:12-58; Jesus has a long dissertation with the Pharisees about his mission, role, and his authority. ( I won't paste the whole account due to it's size ) . But I want to bring your attention down to verse 58;&nbsp;


Here we see Jesus taking the divine name from Exodus 3:14 and applying it to himself. The reaction of the pharisees is by stoning Jesus for blasphemy.

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This is a matter of interpretation. It could easily mean God has ordained the messiah since before Abraham.

Now we go to John 10:25-33;

quote:
Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."JN 10:31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

JN 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Click to expand...

In this section we see Jesus claiming that his Father ( who is God ) and himself are one and the same. Which once again the Jews begin to sone Jesus for blasphemy. But what's important here is that the statement of the Jews is very clear. They understood very well that Jesus was claiming to be God.

It was from these incidents that Thomas learned that Jesus is God, which he himself declared when he saw the risen Lord with the words "My Lord and my God!"

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It's funny that you stop at verse 33. Keep going from verse 34 and you'll find Jesus denies being God.

10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

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v. 34, 35 Jesus says it is written in the law, "Ye are gods" onto whom the word of God came.
In 36-37 he takes on another objection of the Jews to his claim of being the son of God (the Jews took this to be a blashphemy as well). Jesus goes on to say that he does the works of the Father. The Father is indwelling, but he has a further relationship with God, since he is the ordained.

These are not claimes of the Godhead by Jesus. At every turn when Jesus is accused of claiming to be God, he denies it and explains he does the works of the Father in him, that he does nothing on his own except the will of the Father.

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Concerning Mark 2:1-12

Jesus got this authority from God. He doesn't make the claim of being God. As per v.10, Jesus says the son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins. The source of that authority is found in other verses.

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The claim that he has authority to forgive sins is a claim of deity in itself. The teachers of the law knew that, which is why they made the challenge. The only one who has authority to forgive sins is God. Cause only God knows the heart of an individual, and whether or not there is sin that needs to be forgiven. And that is exactly what Jesus did.

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Concerning John 8:58

This is a matter of interpretation. It could easily mean God has ordained the messiah since before Abraham.

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If this is only a matter of interpretation then the Jews wouldn't have picked up any stones to stone Jesus with. But what Jesus did do was to apply the Name in Exodus 3:14 to himself, which in the mind set of OT law, was blasphemy.

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Concerning John 10:33-37

v. 34, 35 Jesus says it is written in the law, "Ye are gods" onto whom the word of God came.
In 36-37 he takes on another objection of the Jews to his claim of being the son of God (the Jews took this to be a blashphemy as well). Jesus goes on to say that he does the works of the Father. The Father is indwelling, but he has a further relationship with God, since he is the ordained.

These are not claimes of the Godhead by Jesus. At every turn when Jesus is accused of claiming to be God, he denies it and explains he does the works of the Father in him, that he does nothing on his own except the will of the Father.

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Jesus is further strengthening his argument by quoting Psalms 82:6, by saying that if God considered the judges of old to be gods, then why do they accuse Jesus of blasphemy, unless they understand more fully what he was claiming for himself. You have to remember that Jesus was dealing with adversaries that were experts of the OT law and how its used. Jesus' adversaries knew full well what Jesus was saying about himself and how he was applying what he was saying to himself. Thus the challenge of the teachers of the law solidifies Jesus' claim to deity.



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Originally posted by edpobre
No, I am not a member of the CD. I am a member of the IGLESIA NI CRISTO (church&nbsp;of Christ in Pilipino), the church that Christ BUILT, which is his BODY of which he is the HEAD.
Ed

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Cult Profiles: Iglesia ni
Cristo


Examine the Iglesia ni Cristo


Non Iglesia ni Cristo Association


Cult: A Theological Definition


Definition of a Christian Cult


When is a cult, a cult?

gunnysgt,

thanks for the link&nbsp;&amp; info. Very informative &amp; enlightening.

&nbsp;

Kain,

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Are you a member of Iglesia ni Cristo?

Originally posted by Jesusong
gunnysgt,
thanks for the link&nbsp;&amp; info. Very informative &amp; enlightening.

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Praise be to God, fellow brother in Christ.


PS 119:40 Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness.

PS 119:41 Let thy mercies come also unto me, O LORD, even thy salvation, according to thy word.

PS 119:42 So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.

PS 119:43 And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.

PS 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.

PS 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.

PS 119:46 I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.

Posted by edpobre: "If Jesus were claiming Deity, he would NOT have mentioned that he had "authority". He would have simply said, "I can forgive sins." By mentioning that he had "authority", he was ACKNOWLEDGING that someone HIGHER than he had GIVEN him the "authority" to forgive sins ON EARTH."

Did He claim deity when He says that He is the Alpha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... the First and the Last... the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS!!! When God says that He is the LORD and that He will not give His glory to another He is not lying... and when Christ says that He is the LORD OF LORDS He IS!!!

God became a man ed... He made HIMSELF nothing... Taking the nature of a servant... being made in human likeness. God did not change who He was at all.. rather He (Being in very nature Himself) took the nature of a man! He did this to become our sin ed. Believe Him. You cannot refute the below responce that has been posted countless times now. It is truth, and you know it. If you didn't, then I assume you would have responded to it by now. That... you have not done (nor anyone else)

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Posted by ed: I know what is in the Bible fow. But that is not my question. I said you are NOT being RATIONAL because you said that this "thing" who is at the the side of the Father is "one and the SAME thing as the Father." BTW, what is this you cal "thing" fow?

you are the one that refered to 'thing'

Posted by ed: "Then show me the verse which says that the Father BECAME the SON."

The Bible says: (John 14:5-10) Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" Jesus answered, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

The Bible says: (John 1:1-5, 14) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The Bible says: (Revelation 19:13) He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

The Bible says: (Phil 2:5-10) Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in APPEARANCE as a man, he HUMBLED HIMSELF and BECAME obedient to death--even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (Reminder: God will not give His glory to another... He is the LORD and Him alone), that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The Bible says this was necessary: (Hebrews 9:14) How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

The Bible says: (Hebrews 9:16-17) In the cse of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while THE ONE WHO MADE IT is living.

Did God not make the covenant???

The Bible says: (Rev 19:16) On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. (Remeber God says that I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. (Isaiah 42:8)


well ed.... Christ says that HE is the Alapha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... the First and the Last..... as does the Father. I ask you ed... are they not claiming the saim thing??? if two things come in first in a race... are they not of equal speed??? simple

ed's reply: If that's how you think, do you admit then that you believe there are two "Gods" whom you pass off as "things?"

No ed... that's not how I think.. They both say it ed... God says that there are no others... therefore they are one... they are both the Alpha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... ther FIRST AND THE LAST!!!

Why did God create the earth ed??? It was because He desired a love relationship with a creation... Love ed... "Through Him all things were made that have been made" (John 1)... God is Love (1st John 4:8)... and through His love, He came to us. (also John 1) There are not two separate 'things' as you say ed... there is one Living God who is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. He is undescribable... and says that He IS.

When God made Himself a man... it was His love.... Jesus Christ... and He subjected himself to endure mans punishment, and subservience. This was His sacrifice, that He became our sins... God the Father can not be in the presence of sin, much less become it. Therefore, out of His uncomprehendible love... He made Himself nothing. He came to us and His name is Jesus Christ-Emmanuel-God with us: Yes... God can do that, even becoming something on earth, while at the same time being God the Father in Heaven. Yes... God can do any number of "evens" that one could fathom asking.

Christ, who being in very nature God, who made Himself nothing, became subject to God the Father... and at the end when all things were finished, was taken again into glory and given the title KING OF KINGS AND LORD OR LORDS... ALL CAPS ED. This is the title reserved for the LORD HIMSELF... WHO WILL NOT GIVE HIS GLORY TO ANOTHER... IT IS THE TITLE OF MY LORD CHRIST WHO IS RISEN FROM THE GRAVE HAVING DEFEATED DEATH... AND THE KEYS OF DEATH AND HADES RESIDE IN HIS HANDS! And after it is all over... Christ will subject Himself to the Father thus the Father becomes all in all. Christ is God... who made>HIMSELF<a man... and who was then again glorified by Him from whom He came

I believe

Tell me ed... when one believes and is saved by God... whose Spirit goes to abide within him???

1 Cor. 2:10-14: But God has revealed it to us by His Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cnnnot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Galatians 3:5-- Does God give you his Spirit...

Galatians 4:6-- Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts....

and ed... who is the Lord of glory (remembering that God will not give His glory to another!)

1 Cor. 2:8-- None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Who made the covenant ed???

The Bible says this was necessary: (Hebrews 9:14) How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

The Bible says: (Hebrews 9:16-17) In the cse of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while THE ONE WHO MADE IT is living.

Did God not make the covenant???

God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God!

believe ed

Originally posted by Jesusong
gunnysgt,

thanks for the link&nbsp;&amp; info. Very informative &amp; enlightening.

&nbsp;

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When dealing with cults, you would do well to remember that Christianity itself began as a cult. A charismatic leader, Christ who brought forth very unorthodox views to Judaism and suggested people give up all their earthly possessions and follow him to be saved.

Kain,

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Are you a member of Iglesia ni Cristo?

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I have made an oath of secrecy concerning my faith, such that only the Eternal may undo. I will answer neither possitively nor negatively on any questions concerning the faith I belong to.

Concerning Christianity, I'm examining the trinity/unity issue subjectively in order to rectify some apparant contradictions. I've taken a non divine view of Christ for this excercise. Both sides have made some very good points. This has resulted in some points that the trinity can't answer and some that the unity can't answer.

So I'll be taking the sideline for a while until more information becomes available, the insults fade and the temperature cools. I've violated some strictures of my faith which requires atonement.

Originally posted by Kain
Concerning Christianity, I'm examining the trinity/unity issue subjectively in order to rectify some apparant contradictions. I've taken a non divine view of Christ for this excercise. Both sides have made some very good points. This has resulted in some points that the trinity can't answer and some that the unity can't answer.

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"This has resulted in some points that the trinity can't answer. . ." False! You haven't posted a single point or question which Trinitarians have not been able to answer. Disagreeing with your presumptions and presuppositions is not the same as not being able to answer.

""I've taken a non divine view of Christ for this excercise." Translate this as "came here with a bunch of presuppositions and assumptions, which have never been supported.

So I'll be taking the sideline for a while until more information becomes available, the insults fade and the temperature cools. I've violated some strictures of my faith which requires atonement.

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On the side lines is exactly where you belong. Come back when you have dumped the superior attitude.