couple honest questions for you guys

papakapp · Oct 19, 2002

Originally posted by Hoonbaba
Hi Papakapp,

Thanks for sharing.  It looks like you hold on to the reformed/calvinist view of salvation, that God ultimately chose us, not that we chose God.  I actually agree with this view.  However, I'm not about to just sit around and do whatever I want.  Jesus tells us something significant:

God bless!

-Jason

I agree with everything you said except the reference to reformed/calvanist

I attend a non denominational church. I do not study reformed/calvanist teachings. I study the bible.
Since I have been attending that church I have had an oportunity to listen to two interm pastors and ont permanent pastor at considerable length. While I don't consider any of these peoples opinion to be anywhere near as important, or scriptural as the bible, (Although, if they are doing their job, they will be teaching only the word of God.) Each of these these peope have said the same thing at one time or another during a sunday morning service.
They have all said: 'Don't take what I say at face value, but test everything I say against the bible.' then they go on to say 'I love it when I make a mistake and a member of the congregation calls me on it. That means they are paying attention.'

So, In general, I cringe a little when somone attaches to themselves a name other than christian. Similarly, I cringe a little when somone studies a book written by a contemporary without testing what they say against the bible.
Not that these people aren't christians, just that it is dangerous to place that much faith in anyone other than God.

1 Corinthians 1:12-13
What I mean is this. One of you says "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the nae of Paul?

We are united in Christ. Any attempt to expand on that only causes division.

papakapp · Oct 19, 2002

Originally posted by Rising_Suns
http://www.udayton.edu/mary/resources/rosdex.html

(this site should answer all your questions about the rosary)

So a rosary is a prayer designed to help you meditate on a mystery?

fragmentsofdreams · Oct 19, 2002

Originally posted by papakapp
So a rosary is a prayer designed to help you meditate on a mystery?

By repeating the prayers over and over again, one can often quiet the distractions of the mind and focus entirely on the mystery. That's why a few prayers are spoken over and over again, to free the mind from concentrating on the words.

Hoonbaba · Oct 19, 2002

Originally posted by fragmentsofdreams
By repeating the prayers over and over again, one can often quiet the distractions of the mind and focus entirely on the mystery. That's why a few prayers are spoken over and over again, to free the mind from concentrating on the words.

I wonder if that has something to do with the the 4 creatures in Revelation who say never stop saying: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come"...

Can you imagine 4 creatures praising God like this forever!?

-Jason

Hoonbaba · Oct 19, 2002

Originally posted by papakapp
I agree with everything you said except the reference to reformed/calvanist

I wasn't placing a label on you, but rather that I was assuming you held a particular perspective on salvation.  Just wanted to point that out

God bless!

-Jason

Caedmon · Oct 19, 2002

Originally posted by Wolseley
Since mankind is prone to sin, there is always the chance that one may slip up and commit a mortal sin right up to the moment of death; there are no guarantees.

I've been told by my RCIA teachers that a person doesn't just "slip up" and commit a mortal sin, but rather that it has to be very serious and totally intentional. In fact, they've told me that it is very difficult for a Christian to commit a mortal sin. Comments?

Hoonbaba · Oct 20, 2002

Hi Humblejoe,

I think VOW shared this with me earlier but mortal sins (1 John 5:16-17) are sins like murder.  That, I think is very hard for me to commit.

God bless!

-Jason

papakapp · Oct 20, 2002

Originally posted by fragmentsofdreams
By repeating the prayers over and over again, one can often quiet the distractions of the mind and focus entirely on the mystery. That's why a few prayers are spoken over and over again, to free the mind from concentrating on the words.

then what is the meaning of :
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. ?

Rising_Suns · Oct 20, 2002

papakapp,

Immediately after that passage, Jesus tells us how we are to pray, and says the Lord's prayer. This prayer, and others, were created to guide us in our prayers so that we do not rattle on with nonsense when we pray. Repition of these prayers helps us meditate on their meaning...It's one thing to merely utter the words in a prayer...it's another to actually visualize and believe in what they say.

Wolseley · Oct 20, 2002

then what is the meaning of :
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. ?

The key word here is "vain", not "repititions". Repetitious prayer is nowhere condemned. Jesus Himself repeated the same prayer over and over again in the Garden of Gethsemane, and Paul says to pray without ceasing.

Vain prayer, on the other hand, is condemned. And what is vain prayer? Look at the verse: "Pray not as the heathen do." Heathens pray to whom or what? They pray to idols. Idols cannot hear you. Therefore, praying to an idol is vain, because it's useless. Prayer to the true and living God, however, is not vain, even if it's a repetitious prayer.

Caedmon · Oct 20, 2002

Originally posted by Wolseley
The key word here is "vain", not "repititions". Repetitious prayer is nowhere condemned. Jesus Himself repeated the same prayer over and over again in the Garden of Gethsemane, and Paul says to pray without ceasing.

Vain prayer, on the other hand, is condemned. And what is vain prayer? Look at the verse: "Pray not as the heathen do." Heathens pray to whom or what? They pray to idols. Idols cannot hear you. Therefore, praying to an idol is vain, because it's useless. Prayer to the true and living God, however, is not vain, even if it's a repetitious prayer.

I look at it like this...

How many times do you tell God, "I love you"? Is 12 times "vain repetition"? Is a 100 times too much? I don't think so.

(This goes for mothers too, hehe!

)

VOW · Oct 20, 2002

To Papakapp:

This will be a very hard concept for you to grasp, but every single thing taught by the Catholic Church is completely Scriptural.

Do you happen to know HOW the New Testament came to be?

Peace be with you,
~VOW

Hoonbaba · Oct 20, 2002

Originally posted by VOW
To Papakapp:

This will be a very hard concept for you to grasp, but every single thing taught by the Catholic Church is completely Scriptural. 

Hi VOW,

I never realized that it is scriptural until you mentioned it!

God bless!

-Jason

Hoonbaba · Oct 20, 2002

Originally posted by papakapp
then what is the meaning of :
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. ?

As Wolseley mentioned, the key word is 'vain'.  Also if you check the surrounding context (Matt 6:5-8), you'll see that Jesus was referring to ungodly people.  One more thing to notice:  In Rev 4:8 the four creatures never cease to say, "holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come."

Sounds like repetition to me

God bless!

-Jason

couple honest questions for you guys

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