ST. John Calvin

Again, this matters not. And, as I previously stated, it is clear that your objection to our usage of the title is simply one against the person to whom we seek to pay honor rather than the fact that we are using a title that you errantly, or arrogantly, feel is the exclusive purview of your denomination.

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I've referred to Augustine as St. Augustine a number of times on this MB and have never once encountered an objection from any of you. I would expect the same lack of objection if I were to refer to any of those to whom your denomination believes they have honored with a title that you believe was yours to give. It is not the Roman church's designation of someone that makes their acts meritorious. All you do in bestowing the title, whether it is warranted or not, is that of recognition of what you perceive as holiness. What is plain to all who are not consumed with fealty to the leaders of your denomination is that you take no issue with our usage of the title so long as it is one that you, yourself, feel is appropriately bestowed.

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It's similar in nature to our employment of terms like "predestination" and "regeneration." We both use the terms, we simply use them in reference to a different set of beliefs regarding the role of God in the life of the believer. That you assume we use or, rather, recognize that the title is appropriately bestowed on someone whom your denomination does not recognize as deserving only proves that you think we justify using the title for the same pitiful, anthropocentric reasons that your denomination does. It simply is not the case. We believe John Calvin was deserving and we believe he played a role in God's plan to reveal the corruption in the continuing practices of your denomination. That said, he is deserving not because of what he did so much as what God did through him.

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Great. I'm not here complaining about your usage of the title on someone that I see as unworthy. That, however, seems to be your MO, and all based on the delusional concept that the OP referred to Calvin as St. Calvin on the same grounds that your denomination bestows the title which, in the eyes of many, though none whose opinion likely matters to you, serves as more of an indictment.

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I understand that the "early church" was the Church catholica, though all you contend in my eyes is that the church has been in error for a long time. But alas, such is the way of man, that without restraint he will pursue a road that elevates himself. Such has been the case in the Church body for quite some time, though I submit that the bridle that was put in place by the reformers did much to stem the tide of destruction that is left in the wake of denominations such as your own.

Why do you say this as if it should give me pause? If the Catholic denomination perverts Scripture, which they surely do, then as a child of God I am bound to be against that. Whether my views of Scripture are accurate or not, there is far too much of God's Word that explicitly refutes the views of your church for me to ever fall prey to the anthropocentric nonsense that is preached within her halls.

That was clever, in a really misguided way. No lion, the term anthropocentric, while you are correct in understanding it to mean "man centered," refers to the emphasis that denominations like your own place on the created man.

I daresay that's true of my knowledge of everyone on this board, at least in the general sense. I know that you are devoted to defending your views and your denomination, however misguided that loyalty may be. My cursory knowledge of you may be insufficient to determine what type of person you are but I hold no illusions regarding your willingness, or lackthereof, to consider anything but what spews forth from the pulpits of your church.

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lionroar0 said:

Romans 8

29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

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Rick Otto said:

OK, so we have apostles of Christ & ambassadors of Christ... but lets not have an Attorney General for Christ!

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And that would be every man woman and child that believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and not whom anyone here on earth deems worthy or not..

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lionroar0 said:

And I have shown that the tile of Saint is not exclusice to our denomination.
You are still arguing a straw man.


Wrong. and you are only digging yourself deeper. You are arguing a straw man.

The Church does not bestow the title of Saint. It recognies a Saint. I have also shown other christian traditions that use the title of Saint.

Also I have asked that you provide objective proof of from your christian tradition that shows that it pracices canonization. You have not provided any o back up your assetions,

Also as I understand it your christian tradition does not allow for the belive that we can be perfected in this life through Christ.

Matt 5:48

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.




You can belive what ever you want but Faith is based on Truth and Truth can be shown through evidence.

As of yet you have not provided any objective proof that Calvin was perfected in Christ in this life and since your christian tradition does not teach this you are not going to.

It teaches that the elect are already saved. It does not allow for the process of being perfected in Christ.

And this is why your christian tradition is deficient and has been shown the straw man argument that it uses for trying to use a practice that it does not hold to. Nor teach.

Here it is again in Scripture and Jesus said it.

Matt 5:48

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Peace

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And when Jesus said this what was He speaking of? Read the whole context of the scripture. Not one person that the cc has cannonized as a saint has been perfect..

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For perfection is in one person only and that be Christ. No where in scripture are we told to recognize and cannonize saints.. In scripture we are called saints because of our belief in Christ.

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lionroar0 said:

It's a process and yes Scripture does tell us to be perfect like our Father is perfect.



No where in Scripture are we told not to either.

It all comes down to different christian traditions.

Peace

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We can see in scripture what saint is all about don't you think? Now where in scripture do you see any of the Apostles cannonizing a saint? Where do you see any of what this tradition you speak of written in scripture? Tradition has its place but it is not above scripture. Bible.. Basic instruction before leaving earth.. This book was written by God. Pretty simple in itself..

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lionroar0 said:

We have already posted Scriputes that supports the tradition of Canonizasing Saints. The Scriptures do not explicitly sate whether we should or we shouldn't.

Peace

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Well if it is not found in scripture why do it? Just because you want to and it feels good? Or because it is tradtion? We don't see saint verses Saint in scripture do we?

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IamAdopted said:

Well if it is not found in scripture why do it? Just because you want to and it feels good? Or because it is tradtion? We don't see saint verses Saint in scripture do we?

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Oblio said:

Nor do we see Romantic P&W songs, Powerpoint slides and Theatrical productions in Scripture. Make no mistake, those are also tradition.

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1. It is expected that people who post in Theology will respect people of faith, including those for whom faith and logic are not contradictions, but complements to one another. To some Christians, arguments from the Bible, from doctrine, and from tradition, are just as valid (and at times more valid) than arguments from logic, reason, science, or history. Whether you are arguing from faith or from logic or some combination thereof, you should respect the other person's point of reference.
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C'mon OB communicating God's word through music and art is scriptural and YOU know it otherwise you wouldn't kiss your icons.

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Oblio said:

Nor do we see Romantic P&W songs, Powerpoint slides and Theatrical productions in Scripture. Make no mistake, those are also tradition.

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