Neocons Embrace Islamic Terror Group

At first, I thought this was about Butatone.

So I guess this group is endorsed by Daniel Pipes as a response to the Iranian question.

Also, the group has since been disarmed and so any ties to terrorism have become purely historic though really I am not sure what their ties are. I am very ignorant about MEK.

I am pretty hardline on a lot of things but I do not stand with Daniel Pipes on this: really bad policy move if we take them off the list of terrorist groups and lend support to them.

Thankfully, the Vast Christian Right Wing Conspiracy has seen fit to keep this group on the terrorist list; only Daniel Pipes is not toeing the party line.

"Neocons" ...huh Dantose?

Why don't Danny Postel and other leftists just spit it out rather than hide behind the "neocon" label?

Danny Postel is talking about "THE JEWS"

Why doesn't he simply say "The JEW Daniel Pipes and the JEW David Horowitz..."?

Too harsh? Someone might get the wrong about about Mr. Postel?

I think they might get the right idea about Mr. Postel.

Everyone knows the codeword leftists use when referring to Jewish conservatives. Leftists have no problem when they attack Christians in calling them Christian. No code word used then. Why the code word "neocon" when its obviously to everyone Danny Postel et al are really talking about "THE JEWS?"

btw...I see this is from Tompaine.com

That's run by Bill Moyer's kid isn't it? Odd name for the son of a Christian to choose. Tom Paine despised the faith. He died pretty much shunned by all the Founders (Jefferson tossed him a bone by asking him to the WH but that was about it). Familiar with the to-do concerning Joseph Campbell--a man Bill Moyers made a PBS superstar? If you don't, check out what Steve Larsen and Brendan Gill have written. All in all, a good post Dantose. Very important people get to see what TomPaine.com, Danny Postel and others think.

Voegelin said:

"Neocons" ...huh Dantose?

Why don't Danny Postel and other leftists just spit it out rather than hide behind the "neocon" label?

Danny Postel is talking about "THE JEWS"

Why doesn't he simply say "The JEW Daniel Pipes and the JEW David Horowitz..."?

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This is easily the most paranoid post I've read on these forums.

Danny Postel claims Daniel Pipes and David Horowitz "embrace" an Islamic terror group (which seems to concern Mr. Postel more than than being a member of an Islamic terrorist group).

Postel is accusing two Jews of "embracing" an Islamic terrorist group. That is a fact. He just didn't use the word "Jew".

He used the usual code word: "Neocon". We see this at a lot. I simply believe it is time to call the left on it.

If someone wishes to say Jews "embrace" Islamic terrorists, say it. Don't hide behind "neocon". If I believed it, which I don't, I would say it. Everyone would know who I was talking about anyways.

One of the supreme ironies of the far left is the fact that they are all about diplomatic negotiations with men like Kim Jong-il, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Hugo Chavez et al but they are not in support of using disarmed former militant groups in any political means, even if it is to attempt to influence Iran better.

Sometimes lending support to opposition groups is a good thing, though I do not know much about MEK.

However, I do smell something terrible when I see the far left willing to engage in talks with dictators but when we propose engaging in talks with groups opposing the dictatorships we are apparently in an embrace with the terrorists themselves.

I guess this would mean while we are embracing terrorists/Iranian freedom fighters, you are embracing Ahmadinejad and Kim Jong-il?

Come, come now...

jmverville said:

One of the supreme ironies of the far left is the fact that they are all about diplomatic negotiations with men like Kim Jong-il, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Hugo Chavez et al but they are not in support of using disarmed former militant groups in any political means, even if it is to attempt to influence Iran better. ..

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And this particular OP is surreal. Conservative Jews supporting Islamic terrorists?

How about an OP which says Al Qaeda is donating money to the Marine Corps-Law Enforcement Foundation?

Neocon = Jew?

What the...?

vipertaja said:

Neocon = Jew?

What the...?

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Well yeah. That is how Jewish converts from marxism who such as Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz described themselves during the Cold War.

More recently the left has turned it into a term of derision used, primarily, to describe Jewish conservatives.

In this OP that is rather obvious I think.

The left also uses the word to describe virtually anyone who isn't a socialist but that is a secondary meaning.

(It is incorrect as well. "Neoconservativism" is a specific ideology. It is a minority position in the Republican party)

Voegelin said:

Well yeah. That is how Jewish converts from marxism who such as Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz described themselves during the Cold War.

More recently the left has turned it into a term of derision used, primarily, to describe Jewish conservatives.

In this OP that is rather obvious I think.

The left also uses the word to describe virtually anyone who isn't a socialist but that is a secondary meaning.

Click to expand...

You're just flat out wrong on this one. For once, I'm not sure if you know you're wrong, or if you just don't know what you're talking about.

But, no, neoconservatives aren't jews. And it's kind of strange that when people come here compaining about the neoconservative platform, you have actually no idea what they're talking about. It seems you are missing a huge chunk of the issue.

Voegelin said:

Well yeah. That is how Jewish converts from marxism who such as Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz described themselves during the Cold War.

More recently the left has turned it into a term of derision used, primarily, to describe Jewish conservatives.

In this OP that is rather obvious I think.

The left also uses the word to describe virtually anyone who isn't a socialist but that is a secondary meaning.

(It is incorrect as well. "Neoconservativism" is a specific ideology. It is a minority position in the Republican party)

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Neocon = jew = minor republican ideology >>> being a jew = having a minor republican ideology?

thirstforknowledge said:

You're just flat out wrong on this one. For once, I'm not sure if you know you're wrong, or if you just don't know what you're talking about.

But, no, neoconservatives aren't jews. And it's kind of strange that when people come here compaining about the neoconservative platform, you have actually no idea what they're talking about. It seems you are missing a huge chunk of the issue.

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No I"m not. Look at the other thread posted today:

Elliott Abrams, Dual Loyalist and Neocon Extraordinaire

At least that Op-Ed is stand up. A Jewish conservative (i.e a "neocon") is a "dual loyalist".

Just because liberals wish to use two meanings for the word "neocon" (Jewish conservative and all conservatives) doesn't make them correct in describing what the ideology is.

Paul Krugman spoke at the Miami Book Fair about a week after Kerry lost the 2004 election. He was almost in tears. It was an interesting speech because he said what liberals know but don't say in public. "Neocons", Krugman said, just lost what little power they had in the GOP. "Econocons" and "Theocons" (his words) would now have no force in the part off-setting them. And guess what? He was right. Within months of Kerry's defeat, Paul Wolfowitz (another "neocon" the left ralled against) was out of the adminstration and off to obscurity at the World Bank.

That lapse on the part of Krugman passed relatively unnoticed however. Liberals were soon ralling against the "neocons" who were running the country.

vipertaja said:

Neocon = jew = minor republican ideology >>> being a jew = having a minor republican ideology?

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Its all Cold War stuff. A few Jewish intellectuals who had supported marxism--supportedTrotsky in particular--became horrified at what the ideology did. They became Republicans. Still saw big government as a good thing, just were not radical equalitarians and turned on Soviet totalitarianism. They called themselves "neoconservatives". Bill Kristol is one. Non Jewish neocons would include Colin Powell and, believe it or not, Alan Keyes (he and Kristol were roomies at Harvard and both enraptured by the works of Leo Strauss).

There is an element of neoconservatism, of course, in the GOP. But its not reflective of the base of the party. The reason Bush's popularity is so low right now is rank and file Republicans are do not support his neocon initatives (which have nothing to do with the War on Terror but everything to do with his agreement with liberals on many social issues).

Voegelin said:

Its all Cold War stuff. A few Jewish intellectuals who had supported marxism--supportedTrotsky in particular--became horrified at what the ideology did. They became Republicans. Still saw big government as a good thing, just were not radical equalitarians and turned on Soviet totalitarianism. They called themselves "neoconservatives". Bill Kristol is one. Non Jewish neocons would include Colin Powell and, believe it or not, Alan Keyes (he and Kristol were roomies at Harvard and both enraptured by the works of Leo Strauss).

There is an element of neoconservatism, of course, in the GOP. But its not reflective of the base of the party. The reason Bush's popularity is so low right now is rank and file Republicans are do not support his neocon initatives (which have nothing to do with the War on Terror but everything to do with his agreement with liberals on many social issues).

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So even a non-jew can be a jew? And the GOP is jewish...ish?

Voegelin said:

Danny Postel claims Daniel Pipes and David Horowitz "embrace" an Islamic terror group (which seems to concern Mr. Postel more than than being a member of an Islamic terrorist group).

Postel is accusing two Jews of "embracing" an Islamic terrorist group. That is a fact. He just didn't use the word "Jew".

He used the usual code word: "Neocon". We see this at a lot. I simply believe it is time to call the left on it.

If someone wishes to say Jews "embrace" Islamic terrorists, say it. Don't hide behind "neocon". If I believed it, which I don't, I would say it. Everyone would know who I was talking about anyways.

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So when people have called Bush/Cheney/Rove/Rumsfeld/etc. neocons, were they calling those guys Jewish? Get over the paranoia. Neocon is not some sort of code for Jew. It is a name for a pseudo-conservative ideology that embraces religious-conservative rhetoric and policies, aggressive use of the American military, low taxes, and high spending.

the policies of the Bush Administration have basically been an embracing of ALL Islamic terror groups... has he done anything besides help their cause since 9/11? Maybe for a few weeks in Afghanistan. He certainly had no problem ending a war when it ACTUALLY helped the terrorists- he only refuses to withdraw our troops now.

Let me get this straight...Republicans are not allowed to use sites like Newsmax and Drudge as references because they have an obvious conservative bias but Libs are allowed to use the "Alternet", one of the most liberally biased sites on the internet?

I guess objectivity truly is in the eye of the political view.

Rik said:

Let me get this straight...Republicans are not allowed to use sites like Newsmax and Drudge as references because they have an obvious conservative bias but Libs are allowed to use the "Alternet", one of the most liberally biased sites on the internet?

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Right, that's precisely how it goes: you're not "allowed" to do that.

Seriously - if you're going to strawman, at least be a little more subtle about it.

Voegelin said:

Just because liberals wish to use two meanings for the word "neocon" (Jewish conservative and all conservatives) doesn't make them correct in describing what the ideology is.

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Voegelin, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about here. A neo-con isn't a Jewish conservative. Maybe some neo-cons are Jewish, but that doesn't meant that all neo-cons are Jewish. I've never seen anyone here on these foums use neo-con to describe Jewish conservatives, but thank you for telling us what we must mean...