I will be entering the catechumenate

Either, we are idiots, or saints - and in this life of ours we - the men - see reasons for living - and they are of this world - or that world.

Orthodoxy is of both - full of idiots, full of saints - for what is a saint but an idiot to this world.

Look at those kings who gave everything to become poorest of us all - for His sake - for He gave everything for our sake.

Do not be afraid to breach the borders of unknown because the unknown is known - if you know God - for God knows the unknown - God knows it all... (St. Sava the Serb)



Many years.




It is a weird and wonderful world out there Tonks....

Universe of Orthodoxy...

Welcome home....

Maranatha.

ICXC
NIKA

Tonks said:

Very briefly, it began with some serious issues that I had with Original Sin - name, the concept of "inherited guilt" - particulary the liability to punishment without a presupposition of personal fault. Everything sort of flowed from there. I recognize that is a rather broad-brush explanation of the western concept...but it will have to do for now. There are many issues related to underlying core theology (decoupled from the whole "nature of the Church" discussion) that I'm working through.

Aria,

Thank you for your words at the bottom of page 2.

zhilan,

Yes, it is difficult...the loneliness is more spiritual than existential.

m

Click to expand...

Very interesting. I've given that a good deal of thought myself. I haven't decided yet if its the thing that intrigues my most about Orthodoxy or one of the things that will keep my firmly Lutheran.

I will be praying. May St Pio guide you in your steps.

God Bless.

's for Tonks!

I know completely revamping yourself to a new set of principles can be tough, but either way the Lord is your strength through it all.

Tonks said:

Very briefly, it began with some serious issues that I had with Original Sin - name, the concept of "inherited guilt" - particulary the liability to punishment without a presupposition of personal fault.

Click to expand...

Hi Matt,
If I understand what your saying here, the distinction you are making between catholic teaching, and orthodox teaching is that catholics believe all humans inherent the consequences of original sin, but not the personal guilt for it.

I have to admit that I don't know much about the Orthodox teaching on this matter but I assumed they were the same.

Can you elaborate on how catholic teaching is at variance with the Orthodox belief on this point?

http://foru.ms/f827-st-justin-martyrs-corner-debate-an-orthodox-christian.html


Geocajun,

Perhaps, instead of derailing the thread into an argument, you might consider opening up a new thread over in St. Justin Martyr's corner - Debate an Orthodox Christian.

I think that Catholics today agree with the Orthodox position that we inherit the consequences of the Original Sin of Adam, typically called "The Ancestral Curse"

But the major difference in Original Sin is seen in the Roman Catholic Dogma of the Immaculate Conception.

Anyway, please feel free to open a thread in St. Justim's Corner through clicking the url above.

Thanks.

Aria, What I asked Matt is not off topic for this thread, but rather it is in response to his post.
Also, this isn't your thread. I asked Matt a question, and I think he will be happy to answer me.
Thanks though ...

Geocajun,

Our dear Admin Tonks and you and I all know that the topic of Original Sin is a hot potato, especially when the topic almost inevitably touches upon the Immaculate Conception.

So, this discussion can quickly spiral down into an argument that is better reserved for the Debate Subforum.

Since Tonks started this thread to receive help from Orthodox Christians, why have you come into TAW to ask a Catholic question that will certainly derail his OP?

I asked the question because someone in OBOB and I were discussing it, and I couldn't speak for what the orthodox believe on the matter, and how it is different than what catholics believe.
Aria, I don't believe I should have to justify to you why I am posting my question to Matt, so if you would kindly butt out, I would appreciate it.
If Matt wants it in a different thread than this one, that is up to him.

It isn't like I'm trying to talk Matt out of joining your church, so don't feel threatened by my question. I know Matt is more than capable of answering my question and he won't be threatened by it either.

Very much praying for you, Matt

This is where God had led you, and it's wonderful. I think you'll find peace in Him now.

Why don't you PM him, Geocajun, as you have already derailed this thread enough.

Obviously I would rather ask him here. Also, it is not me who derailed the thread, but rather you, with your interrogation of me for asking a question.

http://foru.ms/t6333545-orthodox-un...f-the-immaculate-conception.html#post40180628

Okay, I started a new thread over in St. Justin's Corner concerning Original Sin, the Ancestral Curse, and the Theotokos.

Tonks said:

Very briefly, it began with some serious issues that I had with Original Sin - name, the concept of "inherited guilt" - particulary the liability to punishment without a presupposition of personal fault. Everything sort of flowed from there. I recognize that is a rather broad-brush explanation of the western concept...but it will have to do for now. There are many issues related to underlying core theology (decoupled from the whole "nature of the Church" discussion) that I'm working through.

Aria,

Thank you for your words at the bottom of page 2.

zhilan,

Yes, it is difficult...the loneliness is more spiritual than existential.

m

Click to expand...

You are very welcome, Matt.

Oh, have you read any of the lives of the Russians who were martyred under Communism.

One Orthodox Priest, himself a convert, told me that missing Holy Communion was also very hard while he was a catechumen. However, he read the lives of these Russian Martyrs and realized that millions of Russian Orthodox Christians could not receive Holy Communion as the Orthodox Church could not hold Divine Liturgies. Oftentimes, the Divine Liturgies that were being celebrated were done so by priests who were compromised -- KGB agents.

Anyway, he realized that God was present in a most powerful way and gave these people strength. So he prayed to these martyrs and asked them for strength. I did the same, and began to realize that Christ was present in my fellow Orthodox Christians and in me. The Church becomes One Body during Holy Communion.

Bless you Brother for this choice I hope this will be an exciting and fulfilling time in your life and for your faith in Jesus.

Praying that God would guide you on your spiritual journey, Tonks. Go where God leads you.

Having seen the calm courage of many Eastern Orthodox members in the awful Marian Forum, I have immense esteem for this Church.

May you approach ever closer to the Truth and Light.

Latreia said:

Having seen the calm courage of many Eastern Orthodox members in the awful Marian Forum, I have immense esteem for this Church.

May you approach ever closer to the Truth and Light.

Click to expand...

Theres a Marian forum?

buzuxi02 said:

Theres a Marian forum?

Click to expand...

Yup, in General Theology. It's one of the subforums.