Is there an organized system of persecution in the US?

Psalm 115 3~8 3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased. 4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. 5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not: 6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not: 7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat. 8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

Catherineanne said:

This proves nothing about persecution of Christians in the US. All it does is indicate that you have problems with boundaries, and this person has problems with anger.

If I were having a normal conversation with anyone, and he started talking as if Christ were joining in, I would find it impossible to continue the conversation as well. I would not hit you, but I would close politely and walk away. Such behaviour does not, imo, fit within my own experience of what is normal and acceptable. This is not a rejection of Christ. It is a rejection of weird behaviour.

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Catherineanne said:

I do not recall 'religious preoccupied' being a category in DSM III or IV.

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I don't either. I'm an amateur psychologist myself and I've never heard of it beyond this thread.
Ringo

hogndog said:

Psalm 115 3~8 3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased. 4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. 5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not: 6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not: 7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat. 8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

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Nice verses. However, they still do not prove that you have suffered religious persecution.

I am sure you mean these words to be applied to me, but the Bible is a sharp weapon, and its sword has two sides. In other words, perhaps the verses are about you, and not me.

I have seen people get mad when you talk about Jesus to them. The world [system] hates Jesus. However, the only time I have ever personally come close to any sort of physical reaction was when one guy threatened to punch me if I mentioned Jesus' name again...granted, the guy was drunk. Others have slammed the door in my face when I mentioned Jesus, but I don't consider that to be actual persecution. I was taken into the owner's office at a company I used to work at and was strongly rebuked for claiming in an email that God answered a prayer of mine...but I don't consider this to be real persecution. I was told by my boss to take down gospel tracts that I had taped up on the wall in my office area...but again, this is nothing like real persecution. These things are mild. I do not believe that American Christians, on the whole, are suffering persecution. We still have more freedom in this country than in any other country. But I do think that things seem to be very slowly moving more and more in that direction.

I do suspect that it may not be long (though I don't know how long) before American Christians do, indeed, suffer persecution, just as Christians in other countries do. I obviously don't know this for a fact, but this is my guess.

In any case, whatever happens, American Christians should begin preparing for the possibility of that happening. The best way to prepare, IMO, is to spend as much time in God's Word as possible. If a Christian is ever thrown into prison, the only 'Bible' they will have is what they have learned or memorized. We should therefore make it a habit to memorize Scripture.

EDIT: I see that this post is largely a repeat of what I said in my first post in this thread (#15, I think). I apologize for that. The only thing new I really added in this post was the idea of memorizing Scripture in preparation for the possibility of American Christians ever falling under real persecution in the future.

Live4HimAndLoveOthers said:

I have seen people get mad when you talk about Jesus to them. The world [system] hates Jesus.

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I have myself got very annoyed indeed when a young Christian cousin of mine talked about Jesus at the wrong time. I was very angry indeed, and I told her so.

This is not about hating Jesus, this is about hating frankly very bad manners, and the conducting of inappropriate and mistimed Biblical harangues.

None of which equates to persecuting Christians.

Being a Christian does not give any of us permission to drag our own personal beliefs into every conversation, conduct interrogations of other believers, or ignore some people completely and focus only one one person. Bad manners are bad manners, and being a Christian is no excuse for them.

Newsflash: Sometimes people are entitled to get mad when you talk about Jesus, and this does not equate to religious persecution.

hogndog said:

Granted, this didn't happen here but after reading your post I'll share it. In Bulgaria a Pastor was taken for mental evauluation. They found him guilty of reading the bible as you stated, once that was done they injected him with turpintine to see whether that would make him normal. The book its tittled Toutured For Christ...

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Actually, it happened in Romania. The pastor you are speaking of is Richard Wurmbrand - who spent many years imprisoned under a Communist regime. The book was his account of his time in prison and of the atrocities he suffered. I read the book as a young teenager and had the privilege to hear him later at a conference. He has since been 'promoted to Glory' He started the organization 'Jesus to the Communist world' (now The Voice of the Martyr's).

Just an FYI



Ray

Athanasian Creed said:

Actually, it happened in Romania. The pastor you are speaking of is Richard Wurmbrand - who spent many years imprisoned under a Communist regime. The book was his account of his time in prison and of the atrocities he suffered. I read the book as a young teenager and had the privilege to hear him later at a conference. He has since been 'promoted to Glory' He started the organization 'Jesus to the Communist world' (now The Voice of the Martyr's).

Just an FYI



Ray

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I thought we were talking about Christian persecution in the United States, which doesn't exist.
Ringo

Ringo84 said:

I thought we were talking about Christian persecution in the United States, which doesn't exist.
Ringo

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Indeed. As opposed to the Christian persecution complex in the US, which does.

Oh, but it does, not in the same way mind you. A instituted power has been persecuting God's children since day 1. (Serpent!) The devil has MUCH power here. Nobody can deny that. We have our freedoms, and our persecution is nothing compared to theirs, but we have spiritual assaults always, "The American Dream", materialistic values, the secular media's glorification of sex. So many things we have to be on the lookout for. We must pray for our persecuted brethren, but.. I would never wish harm on one of God's children, I'd just ask for God's will to be done in their lives.. If Persecution like that comes to America, you can bet we'll ALL know "Great Apostasy.."

Ishida said:

Oh, but it does, not in the same way mind you. A instituted power has been persecuting God's children since day 1. (Serpent!) The devil has MUCH power here. Nobody can deny that.

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I deny it.

Where does that leave your theory?

Catherineanne said:

I deny it.

Where does that leave your theory?

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It leads me to another theory. That you're blind to your surroundings. Wrong doing is rampant here in America, and if you can't see it.. I don't know what to think. Doesn't scripture label who the "god" of this "world" is?

Ishida said:

It leads me to another theory. That you're blind to your surroundings. Wrong doing is rampant here in America, and if you can't see it.. I don't know what to think. Doesn't scripture label who the "god" of this "world" is?

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How is that persecution?
Ringo

Ringo84 said:

How is that persecution?
Ringo

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I suppose it's a form of "spiritual persecution" (Worthless ideologies, false religion, materialism, selfishness, some secular media..) that nobody is really free from. There is an enemy. So I won't call it persecution, to keep people from whining about it. We're not persecuted in the way they are, but we're not exactly safe either, this goes for more than America.
I guess the worst "persecution" I get is getting called a "fundie" or whatever by people on this forum, or stupid by the "smarter-than-thou" atheists.

Ishida said:

It leads me to another theory. That you're blind to your surroundings. Wrong doing is rampant here in America, and if you can't see it.. I don't know what to think. Doesn't scripture label who the "god" of this "world" is?

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I only know of one God, whether of this world or any other.

If you have a different opinion, then of course you are entitled to it.

I believe there is an increase of Christian suffering here, but in a different way. Christians here are not physically suffering the way they are in other places. But because of the rights that are being taken away and the way people treat Christians witnessing is decreasing. Christians are losing thier voice for Christ. Althogh Christ and myself hurt to see the physical pain many Christians endure. It hurts Christ more to loose vices for Him. I pray for those suffering so don't think I don't care. This world is temporary and so are the sufferings in it. But the next life is eternal. Everytime Christ it shut out less people here about Him and more people suffer eternal pain and torment.

michristke said:

I believe there is an increase of Christian suffering here, but in a different way. Christians here are not physically suffering the way they are in other places. But because of the rights that are being taken away and the way people treat Christians witnessing is decreasing. Christians are losing thier voice for Christ. Althogh Christ and myself hurt to see the physical pain many Christians endure. It hurts Christ more to loose vices for Him. I pray for those suffering so don't think I don't care. This world is temporary and so are the sufferings in it. But the next life is eternal. Everytime Christ it shut out less people here about Him and more people suffer eternal pain and torment.

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What rights are being taken away? I see American Christians as being the most free and the richest Christians in the world and in history.

I also see that they have very little - if anything - to complain about here.
Ringo

Alright...I served in the Army as a Ranger for four and a half years. I had a Top Secret clearance within said organization. I can safely and assuredly say that it is not in the Government's Plans to round you all up like cattle. Fact of the matter is, a lot of people like me...Yes, the Atheists..Believe that you have a right to be Christian and would fight and die to protect your ability to worship as you choose. (Myself included). However, we will also fight for the rights of people that fundamentalists consider "lesser humans" like Gays, Wiccans, Catholics or anyone else.

On a separate note, a solid majority of leadership within the Armed Forces are Christian, as well as the majority of the House and Senate (both Democrats and Republicans alike). The fact also remains that every President that this country has had in the past 60 years has been Christian...So seriously...Sit down, take a deep breath and remember that it is nigh impossible to be the persecuted majority.

Christians were persecuted in Rome when they were being fed to the Lions, made to fight in the Arena, etc.

Getting told you can't have nativity scenes or crosses or commandments on government property isn't persecution. It's enforcing and upholding the Constitution and protecting everyone elses right to worship or not worship as they see fit.

RLTW....ATW

FaithTriumphs said:

I have seen several news articles in the past few months where Christians talk about being persecuted in the United States, apparently simple because they are Christian. Seeing this forum got me thinking about something, a perceptual question if you will.

Do you think there is systematic persecution of Christians in the United States today that targets people simply because they are Christian?

As I see it, Christians have it better in the US than in virtually any other Western country. We are a clear majority with massive voting power and, being the dominant culture, a very strong hand in determining this country's course through history. However, some people see them as oppressed and persecuted for some reason. I would like to know if these are isolated incidents or if it is systematic, and for what purpose. What do people have to gain from persecuting Christians in America?

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look at your own question and realize why so many people deny.

1: cstians have it better in th us..... try to find 12 together.
2.we are a clear majority... try to find 12 together.
3.with massive voting power... this is almost not worth it.....
4.dominatnt culture??? ... allows abortion,legalizedMurder of all ages by drs, oppression of the poor in every city... duh.....
5.a very strong hand... ah, ...whose hand ?
5.what do people have to gain? ....because their deeds are darkness and they are afraid of the light....
...try, just try, to find 12 together...

Well, I'm not seeing anything that comes to mind currently. However, the US government has done such before to the Aleut natives. Many had converted to Christianity when Christian Missionaries from Russia came to Alaska in the 18th century. From the time the US took over in 1867, they wanted the Aleut natives aggressively assimilated. Apparently, Orthodox Christianity was considered wrong and many children were taken from their families to be forcibly 're-educated'. Not to mention the occupation of their islands by US troops for nearly two years in the 1940s with Japanese internment camps and the army using Orthodox churches as target practice, etc. Believe me, the US government has done the Aleut people no favors in the past.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

look at your own question and realize why so many people deny.

1: cstians have it better in th us..... try to find 12 together.
2.we are a clear majority... try to find 12 together.
3.with massive voting power... this is almost not worth it.....
4.dominatnt culture??? ... allows abortion,legalizedMurder of all ages by drs, oppression of the poor in every city... duh.....
5.a very strong hand... ah, ...whose hand ?
5.what do people have to gain? ....because their deeds are darkness and they are afraid of the light....
...try, just try, to find 12 together...

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What is your point? I'm not sure any of us understand.
Ringo