Eila
Senior Veteran
Eila,
I do not want to distract from the main topic of the thread but I believe David gives us a good example of how God works in us and through us to sanctify us. This is also a good question for freeindeed...
Ps 51:10-12,17 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me [with thy] free spirit...The sacrifices of God [are] a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Eila, did David have the gift of the Holy Spirit?
No, no one had the gift of the Holy Spirit before the cross. The Holy Spirit did not indwell OT saints.
Was David baptized in water?
No.
How did he recieve this without being baptized?
He was chosen and the Spirit was upon him - upon not in. The Spirit in the OT was upon chosen individuals like leaders and prophets.
What does it mean to be born again?
Isn't that the question I asked you? What do you believe it means to be born again?
How can anyone no matter the time they lived be saved without being "born again"?
If the OT saints could be born again before the cross then Jesus died needlessly.
Did those under what you would call the "old covenant" only have to recieve the circumcision of the physical flesh to be saved? Was there not also to be a circumcision of the heart? Is not this what it means to be born again? Is not this what baptism symbolizes?
Salvation is only possible through the shed blood of Jesus and we receive it by faith.
Free, If David had God's spirit why would he ask God to CREATE something in him and RENEW his spirit? If he aleady had the H.S. would not this have already been done?
David could not have been born again. The Holy Spirit did not indwell him and live inside him.
Hebrews 11 "32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again.
Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us."
Is not this how God works to sanctify us? The Holy Spirit convicted David of his sin and led David to repentance. David felt the awfulness and guilt of what he had done. He gained EXPERIENCE that is to help us progress in our walk with God. We are to learn from our mistakes so that we don't make them again. God has provided a way of escape, all we must do is deny our sinful selfishness and give God the keys to our heart. With this experience David had, do you think he would go and do the same thing again?
Jesus is our sanctification. He has already sanctified us. The ministry of the Spirit changes us from immature baby Christians to mature Christians.
2 Cor 3 "17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord."
We are transformed by the Spirit.
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