Tonight's catechumen class...

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All4Christ

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Today I had my catechumen class...I thoroughly enjoy these classes - since I love to learn about Orthodoxy and about our faith. Today, we were going through the Divine Liturgy - the meaning of things...the reasons....etc etc. We talked about the Litany of the Catechumens for a good portion of the class. Partway through, he mentioned how the Feast Days (I think) were the days that catechumens were often baptized - hence the passages that refer to baptism, etc (I could be wrong about it being the Feast Days - but it was one of the particular services). Anyways, we got into a deeper discussion about baptism of catechumens afterwards (because of questions of a few of us).

Ever since first starting my journey into Orthodoxy - I always was thankful for the fact - or so I thought - that my baptism - since it was Trinitarian, could potentially be considered acceptable, so to speak - with Chrismation being the official entrance into the Church....not being re-baptized (though I guess it really wouldn't be considered rebaptized if the first baptism wasn't valid...it'd just be the first valid baptism.)

Today, however, I found out that it being a Trinitarian baptism doesn't just mean "In the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit". It also means immersion three times.

Basically, when I heard that I might have to be baptized again....It almost felt like my heart was being ripped out. That may sound sentimental - but honestly - me being baptized was my first step...my first public confession of Jesus Christ being my Lord and Savior - and this was MY statement of faith...my "entrance" so to speak into Christianity - despite the fact that I hadn't found the fullness of the faith in Orthodoxy. I didn't know anything about Orthodoxy at the time - I was just trying to find God in the best way that I knew how... So - basically, while I don't know that there is anything that can be said - or that there is any question to be asked...I just needed to post my frustration...and maybe ask how (if any of you experienced this) that you put it into perspective.

If this does not make sense, let me know :) I'm a bit on the frustrated side right now, so I am just furiously typing on the keyboard :: sigh ::

Anyways, please keep me in your prayers, and please let me know if you have any suggestions with putting this into perspective.

And for the record - this isn't making me decide not to pursue Orthodoxy - by all means this isn't nearly important enough to stop that....after all - what is the baptism worth if not in truth? But....all that I am saying - is that I was truly...truly....well...I don't even know how to explain how I felt.
 

choirfiend

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Your previous rite can continue to be your first public statement of faith. That part is not untrue.
But if you are received by baptism in the Orthodox Church, THAT baptism will be your dying and rising with Christ as born-again and filled with the Holy Spirit.

This is the essential difference between the two. The first is all about YOU. The second is all about your sins being removed and the grace of God being given to you.

Even if the form of your earlier rite within your protestant church is accepted, that public display of faith is still believed to be empty by the Orthodox Church--anything missing is filled by the Holy Spirit in Chrismation
 
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All4Christ

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I expected that the Chrismation would be, as you said - the event that would complete/fill (however you want to word it) what was lacking in the Protestant Church. :: shrug :: but....yeah.
 
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Breaking Babylon

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Consider your first a public act of confession, to fellow Christians, to Heaven, and to the devil, of your belief in Christ. Consider the upcoming to be the remission of sins, being part of the death and resurrection of Christ, your entrance fully into the Church, the beginning of the Mysteries, and the anticipation of Chrismation.
 
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MariaRegina

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Good post, Isaac!

I think some Orthodox Bishops are allowing for the Baptism of most or all protestants/Catholics because the intention of the ministers can be questionable. If they do not intend to baptize you in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and reject Holy Orthodoxy, then the baptism is questionable.

In the end, however, it is the Bishop's decision.

I was not re-baptized because I was a Catholic. However, some Catholics are baptized upon entrance into Orthodoxy because their priests didn't baptize them in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but instead used the terms: Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier. Some priests don't even believe in Christ as God. Until his death, the Catholic Bishop Ryan of California was an Arian, and he was my former parish priest. I didn't have my son baptized in his parish for that reason. In fact, I avoided that parish. Not only that, the parish hymnal had songs that sounded suspiciously wiccan or satanic. A neighboring parish even sang, "Her Name is Jesus." Indeed, it was for this reason that I looked into Orthodoxy and became Orthodox along with my entire family.
 
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Orthosdoxa

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These are things you can discuss with your priest privately, and he will consider what is best for your soul. It's not a cut and dried thing.

My former priest and bishop usually DIDN'T baptize people who'd had a heterodox baptism, but I had my reasons for wanting it, and after a long heartfelt talk with Fr. Don, Bishop Basil consented to baptize me.
 
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MariaRegina

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One of the most important parts of the Baptism service are the exorcisms of the Devil. That is lacking in the Chrismation service.

Since I was Chrismated but not baptized, we did not have the exorcisms and I wished that we had.

Before we were Orthodox, my husband and I encountered some demonic presences in a haunted house where we stayed shortly after my wedding. These dark forces haunted us ever since. The Catholic priests thought that my husband, son and I were imagining these things. Nevertheless, Father Hampsh of the Claretians believed us and did pray exorcism prayers but to no avail. However, a couple of years after our Chrismation, the Orthodox priest did say the prayers of Exorcism over my entire family and we were finally set free. Had we been baptized, we would have been set free sooner.

Go for it.
 
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All4Christ

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Thanks Isaac....does help a bit. I think I need some time to process all this. Just wasn't expecting this (because from everything I read....I thought that my baptism - the entire portion of "in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit" - was Trinitarian.) I just need to realign it all in my head. I'll try to look at in the entire way that you posted that...
 
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buzuxi02

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Today I had my catechumen class...I thoroughly enjoy these classes - since I love to learn about Orthodoxy and about our faith. Today, we were going through the Divine Liturgy - the meaning of things...the reasons....etc etc. We talked about the Litany of the Catechumens for a good portion of the class. Partway through, he mentioned how the Feast Days (I think) were the days that catechumens were often baptized - hence the passages that refer to baptism, etc (I could be wrong about it being the Feast Days - but it was one of the particular services). Anyways, we got into a deeper discussion about baptism of catechumens afterwards (because of questions of a few of us).

Ever since first starting my journey into Orthodoxy - I always was thankful for the fact - or so I thought - that my baptism - since it was Trinitarian, could potentially be considered acceptable, so to speak - with Chrismation being the official entrance into the Church....not being re-baptized (though I guess it really wouldn't be considered rebaptized if the first baptism wasn't valid...it'd just be the first valid baptism.)

Today, however, I found out that it being a Trinitarian baptism doesn't just mean "In the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit". It also means immersion three times.

Basically, when I heard that I might have to be baptized again....It almost felt like my heart was being ripped out. That may sound sentimental - but honestly - me being baptized was my first step...my first public confession of Jesus Christ being my Lord and Savior - and this was MY statement of faith...my "entrance" so to speak into Christianity - despite the fact that I hadn't found the fullness of the faith in Orthodoxy. I didn't know anything about Orthodoxy at the time - I was just trying to find God in the best way that I knew how... So - basically, while I don't know that there is anything that can be said - or that there is any question to be asked...I just needed to post my frustration...and maybe ask how (if any of you experienced this) that you put it into perspective.

If this does not make sense, let me know :) I'm a bit on the frustrated side right now, so I am just furiously typing on the keyboard :: sigh ::

Anyways, please keep me in your prayers, and please let me know if you have any suggestions with putting this into perspective.

And for the record - this isn't making me decide not to pursue Orthodoxy - by all means this isn't nearly important enough to stop that....after all - what is the baptism worth if not in truth? But....all that I am saying - is that I was truly...truly....well...I don't even know how to explain how I felt.
Dont be shocked at this. In fact your one of the very few people in all of christianity (including Orthodoxy laity and clergy alike) that know a proper form for baptism is: BOTH a trinitarian formula and triple immersion. Historically many people have forgotten this.
 
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RobNJ

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In one way, I'm glad I didn't need to be re-baptized. I would have had a hard time explaining to my mother, that Grandpa's baptism didn't count ( I was baptized by my maternal grandfather, a Presbyterian minister).

Make that two ways..... Having seen the thing they use to baptize adults in my church, I doubt I would have made it in & out of the thing, without falling on my face!!! ;)
 
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All4Christ

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lol - honestly that's something I'm worried about too - which I need to not worry about...my family is already so against this - they asked if I would have to be rebaptized (and thinking that I would only need to be chrismated), I told them that as far as I knew - I only needed to be chrismated. At the time - this slightly reassured them. Trying to explain the reasoning to them will be next to impossible. But - I suppose it is a growing experience - in helping me put my faith more wholly in God.
 
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