How the Democratic Party opposes Christian Principles

The Bellman · Oct 11, 2007

clirus said:
Rudolph Hucker quote

One cannot help but wonder whether more soldiers would be alive had they not been sent by a Christian president (and PM) to a far-off land.

Would a non-Christian president (and PM) have done the same thing?

Response

One cannot help but wonder whether more American Civilians would be alive had America not elected the Clinton democratic administration to office.

Rudolph Hucker quote

Almost as an aside, why should any government espouse Christian values?

Response

The choice is the government espousing Christian Principals or Atheistic Principals.

Atheists want to imply that the government does not espouse either, but when the government (courts) legalize inappropriate contentography, abortion and homosexuality, they are espousing Atheistic Principals. When the government under democrats offer healthcare, welfare, etc. they are espousing the Atheistic Lifestyle because they are offering cure instead of prevention.

Prevention of problems is far better than cure for problems, the same as espousing Christian Principles is far better than Atheistic Principles.

Some do not like the black or white of Atheistic Principles or Christian Principles but my experience leads me to believe people do make decisions. I do not believe people understand what they are accepting when they accept Atheistic Principles.

christalee4 quote

Many members of the Democrat party are Christian, so you can park your version of Christian values inside your own small space.

Response

I do not understand that statement.

How can a person call themself a Democrat and a Christian when the democratic party does not support Christian Principles?

There can be no clearer single issue than homosexuality. The democratic party supports homosexuality. The Bible defines homosexuality as evil. There is a clear conflict.

Lots of people like the social policies of the democratic party, but those social policies include inappropriate contentography, abortion and homosexuality. A good justification for opposing healthcare and welfare is that those are also part of the social policies of democrats.

There is a choice to be made. God calls on everyone to make the choice of Jesus Christ and living in accordance with Christian Principles.

A government cannot create an ethical/healthy society by imposing ethics, however an ethical/healthy society can be created when God imposes ethics on people and the people vote for ethical government leaders. A government can create an unethical/unhealthy/Atheistic society by opposing Christian ethics.

I would respond to this, but I can't even follow it.

Learn how to use the forum properly, which includes properly formatting posts. Everyone else manages it without too much trouble - why can't you?

Flynmonkie · Oct 11, 2007

Is he still HERE? :doh:

clirus · Oct 12, 2007

christalee4 quote

Many members of the Democrat party are Christian, so you can park your version of Christian values inside your own small space.

Response

Proof that Atheists control the democratic party.

Who will control America if the democrats win in 2008?

Democrats are being restrained by the 2008 election, but this article shows who controls the democratic party and shows what will be implemented in America if the democrats control both the presidency and congress.

America saw what happened in the Catholic Church when homosexuals got control.

----------------------------------

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/w...&ex=1192766400&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

October 12, 2007
Congressional Memo
Liberal Base Proves Trying to Democrats
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN

WASHINGTON, Oct. 11 Of the three most recognizable Barneys in America, one is a singing purple dinosaur, another is a prehistoric cartoon character and the third is a gay congressman from Massachusetts.

Representative Barney Frank, the Massachusetts Democrat, is as closely tied to the issue of gay rights as Barney Rubble is to Fred Flintstone. But recently, Mr. Frank has been under siege by gay rights groups.

They are angry because Mr. Frank has removed specific language about "gender identity" from the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, a bill that would protect gay men and lesbians in the workplace and that gay rights advocates say would now leave transsexuals and transgender individuals vulnerable.

The tension between Democratic lawmakers and their base has been most visible on the Iraq war, where the insistence by some of the most outspoken antiwar groups on setting hard deadlines for the withdrawal of American troops has often handcuffed Senate Democrats trying to reach a bipartisan deal on legislation to change the war strategy.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi disappointed Democrats seeking major changes to the federal farm subsidy program changes that Ms. Pelosi had supported in the past. Instead she adopted a more moderate approach that made some changes but left most of the subsidies intact and that she called "a good first step."

On the energy bill, the Democrats struggled to navigate the demands of two powerful factions in their base: organized labor groups tied to the auto industry and environmental groups. Representative John D. Dingell, Democrat of Michigan, thwarted Ms. Pelosi's efforts to increase fuel efficiency standards.

The liberal group MoveOn.org started a campaign that included radio advertising branding Mr. Dingell, who is 81, "Dingellsaurus" for opposing the energy standards that the group said would combat global warming.

Representative Adam H. Putnam of Florida, chairman of the House Republican Conference, said Democrats were struggling with tensions between the party's liberal wing, which provided money and support for the 2006 elections, and the views of many freshmen Democrats who won office in moderate or conservative districts.

"The freshmen who actually won seats in districts that had voted for Bush, in conservative-moderate districts, having nothing in common with Code Pink or MoveOn," Mr. Putnam said, referring to the antiwar groups.

Sometimes, though, the in-fighting can seem unreal, as with the recent fury directed by gay groups at Mr. Frank.

"Barney Frank is not gay enough?" asked Representative Thaddeus McCotter, Republican of Michigan, one of the most conservative members of the House .

Even Mr. Frank acknowledged the weirdness. "The likelihood that somebody is going to run against me in my district on the grounds that I have been insufficiently pro-gay is not very high on my list of concerns," he said.

He has put gender identity protections in a separate bill that is not expected to be acted upon this year.

But many gay rights groups said they were truly angry and bewildered, especially because the compromise involves a bill unlikely to be signed by Mr. Bush. A coalition of some 280 groups sent Mr. Frank a letter urging him to include gender identity in the bill to be voted on soon. "What we are talking about is stripping out a part of our community for a symbolic vote, which in our opinion does not advance the struggle for civil rights for our people," said Matt Foreman, executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.

"If the goal here is for the new majority to demonstrate that it is responding to a core constituency," Mr. Foreman said, "passing a non-inclusive bill is not going to accomplish that."

Some Republicans in the House have said they wished Mr. Frank had included the language on transgender and transsexual people because it would have made it easier for them to vote against the bill.

Mr. Frank, at his news conference, said that including gender identity would kill the bill while approving a compromise measure would be a momentous step. "It is an important sign to the rest of the country that we are making progress," he said.

"On the other hand," he continued, "an announcement that this new Democratic Congress led by a woman who has been as committed to full rights for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people in every aspect of her career, that she had to kill a gay rights bill and couldn't do anything at all would, I think, be the most negative message we could send."

Nathan Poe · Oct 12, 2007

clirus said:
Proof that Atheists control the democratic party.

Who will control America if the democrats win in 2008?

Democrats are being restrained by the 2008 election, but this article shows who controls the democratic party and shows what will be implemented in America if the democrats control both the presidency and congress.

This article shows that Democrats want to help gays, and not discriminate against them.

If bigotry, discimination, and hate are the Christian principles the Democrats are opposing, then I say God bless them.

America saw what happened in the Catholic Church when homosexuals got control. [/QUOTE]

Homosexuals control the catholic church? I doubt that -- if they were gay, they'd dress better. And have you seen the inside of a cathedral lately? Please! They need some serious interior design! :pink:

clirus · Oct 13, 2007

Nathan Poe quote

If bigotry, discimination, and hate are the Christian principles the Democrats are opposing, then I say God bless them.

Response

I can understand that the Atheists would consider the statements by God in the Bible as bigotry, discrimination, and hate.

When presented with the choice of accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, people either harden their heart or turn their heart over to Jesus.

Irrespective of the decisions that are made, the Christian Lifestyle is a healthy lifestyle and the Atheistic Lifestyle leads to disease, death and destruction.

dlamberth · Oct 13, 2007

clirus said:
Irrespective of the decisions that are made, the Christian Lifestyle is a healthy lifestyle and the Atheistic Lifestyle leads to disease, death and destruction.

Sorry, but by what we actually see happening in real life, Christians do not posses a special anything that takes them a step above everyone else. In real life, we see that they are just as normal, in all ways, as everyone else who is not a Christian. As such, when we look around, we see that Christians ALSO experience disease, death and destruction and with equal regularity as everyone else.

.

FadingWhispers3 · Oct 13, 2007

"'Everything is permissible' --- but not everything is beneficial. 'Everything is permissible' --- but not everything is constructive."

I am inclined to believe that God in his wisdom thought it a good thing to give man free will... even if it meant that terrible things would be done as a result.

Are we wiser than God?

Nathan Poe · Oct 13, 2007

clirus said:
Nathan Poe quote

If bigotry, discimination, and hate are the Christian principles the Democrats are opposing, then I say God bless them.

Response

I can understand that the Atheists would consider the statements by God in the Bible as bigotry, discrimination, and hate.

Because they were written by small-minded people thousands of years ago, and used by the same lot of people today, to justify their own hangups.

When presented with the choice of accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, people either harden their heart or turn their heart over to Jesus.

So, who do I have to hate in order to accept Jesus? Just the gays, or is the list longer than that?

Irrespective of the decisions that are made, the Christian Lifestyle is a healthy lifestyle and the Atheistic Lifestyle leads to disease, death and destruction.

...at the hands of the Christians.

christalee4 · Oct 13, 2007

clirus said:
christalee4 quote

Many members of the Democrat party are Christian, so you can park your version of Christian values inside your own small space.

Response

Proof that Atheists control the democratic party.

If most Americans say that they worship God, and yet would vote Democrat in the next election, according to polls, do you think that most Christians are not correct Christians?

You are equating Christianity with political affiliation, which means that you think God sides with politics.

FadingWhispers3 · Oct 14, 2007

I believe that Christianity is best served by a party that holds dear liberty for all.

Why? Because while Christianity can and has thrived under all sorts of persecution and oppression, it most certainly will die under any theocracy or government where dogma trumps secular reasoning.

The legislation of morality may appear to be both beneficial... to protect people and correct... to encourage what is right. However, it is the vilest of schemes that Satan himself would be proud of.

There is a very good reason why Jesus did not come the first time around as the reigning king, but rather to die on a cross. History records many kingdoms that rise and fall, but none of them endure so much as that lead by a humble rabbi who ended up dead. There is a very good reason why his kingdom is not of this world... because it is stronger.

Legislation of morality is foolhardy because it provides a false sense of accomplishment. If you are a Christian, you ought to know that the law does not save. In fact, the end of the law whether human or the law of Moses, is death. Only faith in Christ saves.

If the inside is clean, then the outside will naturally be clean. But if there is too much focus on cleaning the outside, what remains is white washed tombs. That is the final consequence of relying on the state rather than God. You will have a nation of cultural 'christians' whose lips praise God, but whose hearts are far from him. You will have a nation of ignorant people who obey the right things out of fear, but knowing nothing.

You will have a nation of salt that has lost it's saltiness.

Rudolph Hucker · Oct 14, 2007

Government should be a religion-free zone, as is the intention of the constitution.

clirus · Oct 14, 2007

christalee4

If most Americans say that they worship God, and yet would vote Democrat in the next election, according to polls, do you think that most Christians are not correct Christians?

You are equating Christianity with political affiliation, which means that you think God sides with politics.

Response

If most Americans vote democratic in the next election, I believe Christians have been deceived. They will have accepted the lies that extreme environmentalism is not the worship of nature, feminism does not harm the family, socialism (welfare/healthcare) helps the poor, inappropriate contentography is free speech, abortion is a woman's right to choose, and homosexuality is a civil right.

God defines good and evil. If a political party chooses evil, that was the political party choice not God's choice.

clirus · Oct 14, 2007

FadingWhispers3 quote

I believe that Christianity is best served by a party that holds dear liberty for all.

Why? Because while Christianity can and has thrived under all sorts of persecution and oppression, it most certainly will die under any theocracy or government where dogma trumps secular reasoning.

The legislation of morality may appear to be both beneficial... to protect people and correct... to encourage what is right. However, it is the vilest of schemes that Satan himself would be proud of.

There is a very good reason why Jesus did not come the first time around as the reigning king, but rather to die on a cross. History records many kingdoms that rise and fall, but none of them endure so much as that lead by a humble rabbi who ended up dead. There is a very good reason why his kingdom is not of this world... because it is stronger.

Legislation of morality is foolhardy because it provides a false sense of accomplishment. If you are a Christian, you ought to know that the law does not save. In fact, the end of the law whether human or the law of Moses, is death. Only faith in Christ saves.

If the inside is clean, then the outside will naturally be clean. But if there is too much focus on cleaning the outside, what remains is white washed tombs. That is the final consequence of relying on the state rather than God. You will have a nation of cultural 'christians' whose lips praise God, but whose hearts are far from him. You will have a nation of ignorant people who obey the right things out of fear, but knowing nothing.

You will have a nation of salt that has lost it's saltiness.

Response

The two main reasons I starting writing was the Atheistic Liberal News Media and the courts violating the Separation of Church and State as intended in the Constitution.

The courts violated the Separation of church and state by legalizing inappropriate contentography, abortion and homosexuality.

Separation of Church and State means the church should not execute people and the state should not legislate morality.

A government cannot create an ethical/healthy society by imposing ethics, however an ethical/healthy society can be created when God imposes ethics on people and the people vote for ethical government leaders. A government can create an unethical/unhealthy/Atheistic society by opposing Christian ethics.

The purpose of government is to protect the people from evil both domestic and foreign and not to provide services to the people. All people benefit if America is protected from domestic enemies (inappropriate contentography, abortion and homosexuality) and foreign enemies (War on Terrorism). When the government begins to provide services to the people, the government gets involved in moral questions that the government should stay out of.

Christians need to be salt and light, then America will return to being a Christian Nation that is respected throughout the world and will be a testimony of God.

Some would say that the government doing anything to discourage the evils of inappropriate contentography, abortion and homosexuality represents imposing Christian Principles, but I totally disagree with that.

The Bible tells people what is evil to avoid the disease, death and destruction of evil. If you want advanced warning of evil, read the Bible. Otherwise, you can determine evil by waiting until the disease, death and destruction to set in. Homosexuality is a n example where the Bible warned, but the people ignored and now the disease, death and destruction has set in.

Government should discourage evil because of the disease, death and destruction not because the Bible provides a warning. An example of this is smoking. The Bible warns against smoking, but the people ignored, now the government has a program in place to discourage smoking because of the disease, death and destruction.

There is some evil that is such a threat to society that the government should execute people by Civil Law. People should be executed by Civil Law for murder, etc. Murder is extreme evil so you eliminate it. Civil Law says the actions of some are so antisocial that they must be put in prison to remove them from society.

A major question facing America is Stem Cell Research. I don't see a clear statement in the Bible, but I am concerned that humans are messing with God's creation. The disease, death and destruction has not set in, but I worry that a mutation could occur that could be even more or a world pandemic than AIDS. I agree with President Bush that America should go really slow on Stem Cell Research.

IzzyPop · Oct 14, 2007

clirus said:
The two main reasons I starting writing was the Atheistic Liberal News Media and the courts violating the Separation of Church and State as intended in the Constitution.

Drink!

Sorry, Tulk, I had to.

clirus said:
The courts violated the Separation of church and state by legalizing inappropriate contentography, abortion and homosexuality.

Separation of Church and State means the church should not execute people and the state should not legislate morality.

You wouldn't happen to have any sources on that, would you? I mean, other than the voices in your head?

clirus said:
A government cannot create an ethical/healthy society by imposing ethics, however an ethical/healthy society can be created when God imposes ethics on people and the people vote for ethical government leaders. A government can create an unethical/unhealthy/Atheistic society by opposing Christian ethics.

The purpose of government is to protect the people from evil both domestic and foreign and not to provide services to the people. All people benefit if America is protected from domestic enemies (inappropriate contentography, abortion and homosexuality) and foreign enemies (War on Terrorism). When the government begins to provide services to the people, the government gets involved in moral questions that the government should stay out of.

Christians need to be salt and light, then America will return to being a Christian Nation that is respected throughout the world and will be a testimony of God.

Some would say that the government doing anything to discourage the evils of inappropriate contentography, abortion and homosexuality represents imposing Christian Principles, but I totally disagree with that.

The Bible tells people what is evil to avoid the disease, death and destruction of evil. If you want advanced warning of evil, read the Bible. Otherwise, you can determine evil by waiting until the disease, death and destruction to set in. Homosexuality is a n example where the Bible warned, but the people ignored and now the disease, death and destruction has set in.

So, one more time, since you still want to spread this lie...If disease shows god's displeasure with homosexual men, does the lack of disease show god's favor for lesbians?

clirus said:
Government should discourage evil because of the disease, death and destruction not because the Bible provides a warning. An example of this is smoking. The Bible warns against smoking, but the people ignored, now the government has a program in place to discourage smoking because of the disease, death and destruction.

There is some evil that is such a threat to society that the government should execute people by Civil Law. People should be executed by Civil Law for murder, etc. Murder is extreme evil so you eliminate it. Civil Law says the actions of some are so antisocial that they must be put in prison to remove them from society.

A major question facing America is Stem Cell Research. I don't see a clear statement in the Bible, but I am concerned that humans are messing with God's creation. The disease, death and destruction has not set in, but I worry that a mutation could occur that could be even more or a world pandemic than AIDS. I agree with President Bush that America should go really slow on Stem Cell Research.

Nice to see you back from your vacation. Too bad you didn't learn much...

Rudolph Hucker · Oct 15, 2007

clirus said:
...

Separation of Church and State means the church should not execute people and the state should not legislate morality.

..

When the view is so myopic an optician will be of little help.

Nathan Poe · Oct 15, 2007

clirus said:
The courts violated the Separation of church and state by legalizing inappropriate contentography, abortion and homosexuality.

And which religious tenet holds these things as sacred?

A government cannot create an ethical/healthy society by imposing ethics, however an ethical/healthy society can be created when God imposes ethics on people and the people vote for ethical government leaders.

Alas, there are no ethical government leaders to choose from. None are righteous.

The purpose of government is to protect the people from evil both domestic and foreign and not to provide services to the people. All people benefit if America is protected from domestic enemies (inappropriate contentography, abortion and homosexuality) and foreign enemies (War on Terrorism). When the government begins to provide services to the people, the government gets involved in moral questions that the government should stay out of.

Most people disagree. Government should help all its members, to an extent.

Christians need to be salt and light, then America will return to being a Christian Nation that is respected throughout the world and will be a testimony of God.

At what point would you say Christians stopped being the salt and light?

Some would say that the government doing anything to discourage the evils of inappropriate contentography, abortion and homosexuality represents imposing Christian Principles, but I totally disagree with that.

The Bible tells people what is evil to avoid the disease, death and destruction of evil. If you want advanced warning of evil, read the Bible. Otherwise, you can determine evil by waiting until the disease, death and destruction to set in. Homosexuality is a n example where the Bible warned, but the people ignored and now the disease, death and destruction has set in.

Explain. After all, it's Christian principles that call these things evil.

Government should discourage evil because of the disease, death and destruction not because the Bible provides a warning. An example of this is smoking. The Bible warns against smoking, but the people ignored, now the government has a program in place to discourage smoking because of the disease, death and destruction.

Where does the Bible warn against smoking?

There is some evil that is such a threat to society that the government should execute people by Civil Law. People should be executed by Civil Law for murder, etc. Murder is extreme evil so you eliminate it. Civil Law says the actions of some are so antisocial that they must be put in prison to remove them from society.

Civil Law doesn't execute -- Criminal Law does. This is Civics 101

A major question facing America is Stem Cell Research. I don't see a clear statement in the Bible, but I am concerned that humans are messing with God's creation. The disease, death and destruction has not set in, but I worry that a mutation could occur that could be even more or a world pandemic than AIDS. I agree with President Bush that America should go really slow on Stem Cell Research.

how exactly could "a mutation" occur? Do you know what stem cell research is?

ONEGod · Oct 16, 2007

#594
Rudolph Hucker
Senior Member
Almost as an aside, why should any government espouse Christian values?

ONEGod:
Because they are the children of God ? Don't you know Him or His Word ?
Governments rule over nations as do leaders and Kings, note the Lord governs over them, except when destruction of needs be.
Learn of what the Lord says is His rightful place of governing/nations. Also note our forefathers much attested to the same.

Genesis 12:2
And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Genesis 15:14
And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

Genesis 17:6
And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

Genesis 35:11
And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

Exodus 34:10
And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.

Deuteronomy 8:20
As the nations which the LORD destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 28:48-50
48Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.
49The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:

Joshua 23:3
And ye have seen all that the LORD your God hath done unto all these nations because of you; for the LORD your God is he that hath fought for you.

2 Chronicles 15:5-7 (King James Version)
5And in those times there was no peace to him that went out, nor to him that came in, but great vexations were upon all the inhabitants of the countries.
6And nation was destroyed of nation, and city of city: for God did vex them with all adversity.

Job 12:23
He increaseth the nations, and destroyeth them: he enlargeth the nations, and straiteneth them again.

.............................
Psalm 22:28
For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.

...............................

Psalm 47:3
He shall subdue the people under us, and the nations under our feet.

Psalm 67:4
O let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.

Psalm 82:8
Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Psalm 113:4
The LORD is high above all nations, and his glory above the heavens.

Isaiah 34:2
For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

Isaiah 49:7
Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

Haggai 2:7
And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mark 13:10
And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

Acts 14:15-16
15And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

16Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

RULE THE NATIONS !

28All this came upon the king Nebuchadnezzar.

29At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon.

30The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?

31While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.

32And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

33The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.

34And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

36At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.

37Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

Daniel 5:18-28
18 O thou king, the most high God gave Nebuchadnezzar thy father a kingdom, and majesty, and glory, and honour:

19And for the majesty that he gave him, all people, nations, and languages, trembled and feared before him: whom he would he slew; and whom he would he kept alive; and whom he would he set up; and whom he would he put down.

20But when his heart was lifted up, and his mind hardened in pride, he was deposed from his kingly throne, and they took his glory from him:

21And he was driven from the sons of men; and his heart was made like the beasts, and his dwelling was with the wild *****: they fed him with grass like oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven; till he knew that the most high God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will.

22And thou his son, O Belshazzar, hast not humbled thine heart, though thou knewest all this;

23But hast lifted up thyself against the Lord of heaven; and they have brought the vessels of his house before thee, and thou, and thy lords, thy wives, and thy concubines, have drunk wine in them; and thou hast praised the gods of silver, and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know: and the God in whose hand thy breath is, and whose are all thy ways, hast thou not glorified:

24Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written.

25And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.

26This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.

27TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.

28PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.

ONEGod:
How much clearer need it be the Lord directly has a hand upon the nations and their governing ?

By the way, the Lord does take sides in governing and has destroyed many kingdoms that professed offense of God and were destroyed by God. This is stuff of Sunday school basics. When did it become so 'unknowable' ? ? ?

Voegelin · Oct 17, 2007

ONEGod said:
#594
How much clearer need it be the Lord directly has a hand upon the nations and their governing ?

By the way, the Lord does take sides in governing and has destroyed many kingdoms that professed offense of God and were destroyed by God. This is stuff of Sunday school basics. When did it become so 'unknowable' ? ? ?

It was stunning how astounded the liberal media was when Christian leaders made comments about 9/11 being God's payback.

That is Christianity 101. And the leftists in the media didn't have a clue (or pretended they didn't).

Rudolph Hucker · Oct 17, 2007

Voegelin said:
It was stunning how astounded the liberal media was when Christian leaders made comments about 9/11 being God's payback.

That is Christianity 101. And the leftists in the media didn't have a clue (or pretended they didn't).

The intriguing thing there is that after the 2004 Tsunami, religious leaders, Moslem and Christian, both claimed it was God's payback on the "infidel" others.

clirus · Oct 17, 2007

ONEGod quote

ONEGod:
Because they are the children of God ? Don't you know Him or His Word ?
Governments rule over nations as do leaders and Kings, note the Lord governs over them, except when destruction of needs be.

Learn of what the Lord says is His rightful place of governing/nations. Also note our forefathers much attested to the same.

Response

I agree with everything you said, but I believe God directly intervened in the Old Testament, but uses the Holy Spirit to intervene now. Ultimately God will have to directly intervene again as presented in the Old Testament.

For now, I believe God has provided the Holy Spirit to guide Christians, provided the Bible to guide Christians and expects Christians to act accordingly.

One of the places Christians are tested is the way they vote. I believe a lot of Christians (accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior) are allowing themselves to be deceived by Satan/Atheists as to what the Bible says.

Preachers fail to preach Righteousness along with the Love preaching.

Christians fail to realize that advocating or being a part of extreme environmentalism, socialism, feminism, inappropriate contentography, abortion, homosexuality and the Atheistic Lifestyle is not in accordance with the Bible (which Christians are told to follow).

Republicans have yet to prove to me that they really support Christian principles, but democrats have proven they do "not" support Christian Principles.

How the Democratic Party opposes Christian Principles

The Bellman

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I wear my sunglasses at night...

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