"Where do you see me saying in my quote that I said the Apostles were wrong??!! If your going to participate in a normal discussion/debate you need to stop twisting the words of your opponent! There is a difference from the Apostles and the church fathers! Get it right the next time before jumbing to conclusions! "
Who in the world do you think the church fathers where? If I teach something to my son and tell him exactly who Christ is, do you think he is going to get it wrong? LOL, nope
"me the scriptures why don't you?! "
Sure dude, you asked for it, I'm not going to answer anymore of your thread for this is going to take up a lot more.
The three persons of the Godhead are, at the same time, noted in such Scriptures as Isaiah 48:16: "I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me." The speaker in this verse is obviously God, and yet He says He has been "sent both by The Lord God (that is, the Father) and by His Spirit (that is, the Holy Spirit).
The New Testament doctrine of the Trinity is evident in such a verse as John 15:26, where the Lord Jesus said: "But when the Comforter is come whom I will send unto you from the Father, He shall testify of me." Then there is the baptismal formula: "baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19). One name (God) -- yet three names!
Yet we can know that Jesus is God because He said: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Revelation 1:8) .
There are several other reasons to at least start believing our Lord Jesus Christ is God:
Christ' Title and Name
1) Lord means Deity
The title Lord was first applied to Jesus by Simon Peter just prior to his declaration that "You are the Christ, the son of the Living God." Thereafter, Lord is increasingly applied to Jesus. Although the title of Lord may mean simply a master, to the Jews "Lord" was a reverent title of Deity. The Bible of their day was the Septuagint - a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures. The Septuagint translated the Hebrew word for God (YHWH) as the Greek word meaning Lord. In fact, it was the early church's refusal to agree that Caesar was Lord that caused the Christians to be martyred.
2) Jesus means Savior
Throughout the Holy Scripture, the Lord God adamantly proclaims that there is no other savior besides Himself. Yet Scripture also calls Jesus our savior, and his very name means "Savior".
3) Christ means Messiah
The very title of Christ means God's Holy One or God's Anointed One. The Jews looked forward to this person's coming as the Messiah.
4) Son of God
When the scribes and Pharisees understood that Jesus was claiming to be the Son of God, they wanted to stone Him for blasphemy because he was claiming to be equal with God. Jesus and Hebrews also explain that the Son of God means deity.
5) Son of Man
The Son of Man is Jesus favorite name for himself. This name reaches back to Daniel's name for the Messiah. By calling Himself the son of Man, Jesus was identifying Himself as the anointed one - the Christ.
6) Lord of Glory
When Jesus is called the Lord of Glory, this title refers specifically to His Deity.
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the "Lord of glory." - 1 Corinthians 2:8
mesh with:
Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD rises upon you. See, darkness covers the earth and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the LORD rises upon you and his glory appears over you. - Isaiah 60:1-2
7) Claimed to be One with the Father
There is a oneness to the triune God that is beyond our comprehension. Not only is the Father in Jesus, but Jesus is in the Father. Truly, the Lord is one.
8) Claimed to Be Lord of The Sabbath
The Sabbath is the day is the day of rest at the completion of the creation. By claiming to be the Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus is claiming to have been the one who rested on the seventh day.
9) Claimed to be Lord over All
There can only be one supreme commander in chief. And there can only be one Lord over all. Jesus is not competing with the Father, because Jesus too is YHWH - the Lord over All.
10) Claimed to be the Alpha and the Omega
Only six times in scripture does anyone claim to be the very first and the very last. Three times the LORD God makes this claim, and three times Jesus Christ makes the same claim.
11) Made several "I Am" statements
It seems no coincidence that Jesus Christ, when asked question concerning His nature, replied with the same answer that the Lord God used when Moses asked questions.
12) Christ dared to forgive Sins
Only one person can forgive a sin against God, and that's God. Yet Jesus repeatedly completely forgave sin.
13) Christ spoke with authority
All the other prophets spoke saying, "Thus Says the Lord,". But not Jesus. When He taught, the listeners marveled at His authority.
If the greatest sin is breaking the greatest commandment, then worshiping anyone or anything besides God is the greatest sin possible. Yet, Jesus regularly received worship, and blessed those who worshipped Him. Is this blasphemy, or obeying the greatest commandment? 14) He is worshiped at His Birth
At His entry into His Earthly ministry, Jesus was worshipped by shepards, wise men and angels.
15) His disciples worshiped him
Those closest to Christ, who heard His private teachings and prayed daily with Him, worshiped Christ!
16) Those he healed worshiped him
Those Christ healed responded with appropriate worship for their God!
17) The Holy Scriptures worship Him
So often a New Testament writer is explaining some aspect of God, or our salvation, and He breaks into a passage of worship and praise for God, and for Christ. That the God-breathed Holy Scriptures worship Christ is perhaps the most significant proof of the Deity of Jesus. If Christ is not God, then by this proof, the entire foundation of Christianity just came tumbling down!
18) Heaven worships him
The book of Revelation is an incredible glimpse into the worship of heaven. The focal point of the book is worship directed toward our Lord Jesus Christ. One hundred million angels, the twenty-four elders and the four heavenly being can't be wrong.
19) Angels are commanded to worship him
God commands the angels to worship Christ! Is the Lord God committing idolatry?
20) Every Knee shall bow
In Paul's great hymn of the incarnation, the song concludes with the bold statement that every knee, believer or not, all will bow before Christ - and declare that Jesus Christ is LORD!
Evidence of Christ's Divine Nature
21) Self-Existent
Christ has no beginning - as only God can claim
22) Omnipotent
Christ has all power - as only God can have!
23) Omnipresent
Christ's divine nature is infinite and without boundary - as only God can be!
24) Omniscience
Christ knows every secret - as only God can know!
25) Holy
Christ is holy and righteous - as only God is holy.
26) Good
Christ is good - as only God is good.
27) Just
Christ is fair and just, and judge of everyone - as only God shows justice.
28) Eternal
Christ is eternal, pre-existent and the ancient of days - as only God is beyond the markers of time.
29) Immutable
Christ is the same today, yesterday, and forever, consistent, unchanging - as only God is immutable.
30) The Creator
Christ is no other than the one who spoke time, the universe, the laws of physics, and your soul into being - as only God can do!
31) Sustainer of Life
Christ is the one who sustains all life - as God is the source of life
32) The King
Christ is the King of the Universe - as only God can rule!
33) sends forth the Holy Spirit
Christ sends forth the Comforter - as only God can send forth His Spirit.
34) The Light of the World
Christ is the source of spiritual light and truth and the light of heaven - as only God is the source of truth.
The Old Testament Prophets Prepared for the Messiah as YHWH Himself
35) Isaiah
The Prophet spoke of the Messiah as the Mighty God!
36) John the Baptist
The final prophet of the Old Testament made straight the path of the Lord
37) Psalms
Several Psalms speak to the Son as God.
The Apostle John Taught that Jesus is God
38) John's Gospel Prelude
The Gospel of John opens with the clearest possible way that John can say that Christ both "is God" and "is with God". John say that the word became flesh and tabernacled among His people.
39) John calls Jesus True God
In one of John's letters, he directly calls Jesus the true God.
40) Jesus blessed Thomas' confession that Jesus was his God
John records Thomas' confession that Jesus was his Lord and his God. And Jesus responds by blessing the confession.
The author of Hebrews taught the Deity of Christ
41) The letter to the Hebrews revels the Glory of Jesus' Deity
Hebrews opens the Holy Scriptures (O.T.) and shows how Jesus is higher than the angels by showing that Jesus is God Himself. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being,
- Hebrews 1:3
Wow! How clearer can it get? Christ's Divinity means that He is the God in the flesh. This verse reminds me of the Transfiguration. When Jesus gave his best friends a glimpse of His Divine glory.
42) The Builder of all things
In my personal favorite passage of Deity, the writer of Hebrews weaves a wonderfully concise progression of logic explaining that Jesus is greater than Moses, because Jesus is the builder (of the law, and of the church)and the builder is God.
43) The Father calls The Son God
The writer of Hebrews opens the Old Testament and shows points to a dialog between God the Father and God the son, wherein the Father calls the Son "Oh God"! - Hebrews 1:8