Do you believe that Masturbation a Sin?

Originally posted by Project 86
"well masterbating is natural."

So is murder.

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thats not true, i don't go around killing people. But i do drink water which is natural.

"thats not true, i don't go around killing people. But i do drink water which is natural."

How can you say murder is not natural? People and animals always do it. Don't tell me you never thought of killing someone atleast 1 time for a second. It's natural and any evolutionist will tell you that!

Originally posted by TerraSin
Ahh, the voice of ignorance speaks again. Girl, you prayin the wrong prayer. You need to pray God put up a wall against thoughts, against acts, and you need to focus on Him above all. And from that he will give you grace and healing.

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Well, dear..I am not the voice of ignorance. My point of saying..

Well I may as well go out and commit adultry then. Since I'm destined to burn in Hell anyway.

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..was to prove a point.
As a Catholic, there are different levels of sin. Adultry is considered a mortal sin. Lustful thoughts are not.
Not all Christians have the same opinion in respect to sin.

"Adultry is considered a mortal sin. Lustful thoughts are not."

Bible though tells us CLEARLY in black and white that's not the case.

When Jesus came and put his life up for ours, it took away the "levels" of sin and sin became sin. Stealing a piece of candy is as bad as killing someone and will be judged accordingly because we have the chance to repent and be forgiven thanks to Jesus. Praise God.

Originally posted by TerraSin
When Jesus came and put his life up for ours, it took away the "levels" of sin and sin became sin. Stealing a piece of candy is as bad as killing someone and will be judged accordingly because we have the chance to repent and be forgiven thanks to Jesus. Praise God.

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Well praise God that my Church teaches that not all sin is equal.
Stealing a piece of candy is not as bad as killing someone. That is total nonsense.
But then we were discussing "masturbation". Maybe we should get back on topic.

Originally posted by Project 86
"its so weird how everything that natural to the human body or sex is sinful."

Some would say it's natural to get mad and want to go as far as kill someone even. Is that ok then too? Better think twice on that before you cut someone off in traffic!

"I know a man who became devorced from his wife , he is a man of high morals and didn't fool around after the devorce .
As time went by he developed problems with his testicals , pain and swelling , he went to the doctor and was told he had a blockage in his tubes , and was asked how his love life was , zilch he said , so the doc asked him about touching yourself , I don't do it he told the doc , so the doc told him to either see a prostitute or start masterbating as this was his problem .
He was a man of high morals , so he did what he had to do ."

Ok please show me source of this one cause it stinks of something very bad!

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Thank you for believing me ,  as I said , it's a true story , the guy is my brother inlaw .

Originally posted by Project 86
"thats not true, i don't go around killing people. But i do drink water which is natural."

How can you say murder is not natural? People and animals always do it. Don't tell me you never thought of killing someone atleast 1 time for a second. It's natural and any evolutionist will tell you that!

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I never thought of killing someone. Ever.

Originally posted by Project 86
Ok well you may try to show me some studies that agree with you. I can get studies to agree with any view of any topics to be truthful but like I said that's an untrue statement.

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Lies, d*mned lies, and statistics, huh? You're right, with some digging I'm sure I could find the appropriate reference data (that link LadyShea provided, and subsequent links from that page make mention of studies that have been done on the subject).

Like I said a 6 year old can't touch unless you loosly use a certain dictionary term you can find and really twist it around.

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Um, the definition I provided wasn't twisted at all. It seems to reference precisely what people do when they "play with themselves".

Unless you masterbated when you where 6 for sexual pleasure. I don't know what part of the country your in but 6 year olds don't do that here.

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Well, I'm from Canada. Must be something in the water up here

Ok as with the toy thing how about we hand out toys made by some so called "Christian" company (by the way there are people that do this). Maybe put bible verses on them and hand them out in 1st grade? Would that be ok then? Or should we just teach 1st graders to touch naturally?

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I'm not quite sure where your "toy" argument is going with this. As far as "teaching" 1st graders, I don't really think we have to "teach" them, since they'll figure it out on their own.

Originally posted by Project 86
So is murder.

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Ah, ye ol' giant leap in logic. Equate personal sexual pleasure (which, btw, harms no one and has no negative health-side effects), with the act of ending someone else's life against their will.

I guess Pete doesn't believe in healings either. Ever try something called Prayer?

Originally posted by TerraSin
I guess Pete doesn't believe in healings either. Ever try something called Prayer?

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Huh? I must have missed something.

I'm not wasting anymore time in this topic. It's obvious no one here reads their Bibles. Or if they do, they just don't care. Have a good day, and God Bless

Originally posted by Project 86
"thats not true, i don't go around killing people. But i do drink water which is natural."

How can you say murder is not natural? People and animals always do it. Don't tell me you never thought of killing someone atleast 1 time for a second. It's natural and any evolutionist will tell you that!

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Nope i don't think about killing people my mind isn't like that. I am not crazy.

Well this topic for me has had it's time. Now i'm moving on. If anyone wants a 1 on 1 convo about this and is willing to keep it civil just PM me. I have made my points and gave biblical scripture. Now it's up to God to work in you if you allow him too. God bless.

******WARNING: THIS POST IS GRAPHIC & PERSONAL******

After observing much rhetoric and quite a bit of confusion concerning this particular subject, I have decided to (upon request) attempt to logically reveal what Saith The LORD about this controversial topic; In so doing, I will give several passages of Scripture addressing such uncleannesses and then "seven" reasons why this type of activity must be avoided by all those who are Sanctified through the SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST! Let us proceed:

First of all, the word is "Autosexuality", that is, self-stimulation; this action focuses upon "self-gratification", a form of narcissism; it is a "totally" self-centered sexual act, a form of self-sex involving a preoccupation with one's own sexual organs.

Scriptural examples (warnings):

Genesis 38:8-10}"And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother; and Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother; AND THE THING THAT HE DID DISPLEASED THE LORD: WHEREFORE HE SLEW HIM!!! (no exposition required here).

Leviticus 15:16-18}"And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be UNCLEAN until the evening; and every garment, and every skin, WHEREON IS THE SEED OF COPULATION, shall be washed with water, and BE UNCLEAN until the evening; THE WOMAN ALSO WITH WHOM MAN SHALL LIE WITH SEED OF COPULATION, THEY BOTH SHALL BATHE THEMSELVES IN WATER, AND BE UNCLEAN UNTIL THE EVENING!!! (no expo).

Romans 1:24}"Wherefore GOD also gave them up TO UNCLEANESS THROUGH THE LUSTS OF THEIR OWN HEARTS, TO DISHONOUR THEIR OWN "BODIES!"

II Cor 12:21}"And lest, when I come again, my GOD will humble me among you, and that I shall BEWAIL many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the "UNCLEANNESS" and FORNICATION and LASCIVIOUSNESS which they have committed! (uncleanness=physical impurity accompanied by moral filthiness).

Gal 5:19}"Now the works of THE FLESH are manifest, which are these: ADULTERY, FORNICATION, "UNCLEANNESS", LASCIVIOUSNESS!!! (always accompanied with "sexual" sins).

I Thess 4:3-5}"For this is the will of GOD, even your SANCTIFICATION, that ye should ABSTAIN FROM FORNICATION: THAT EVERY ONE OF YOU SHOULD "KNOW HOW" TO POSSESS HIS "VESSEL" IN SANCTIFICATION AND HONOUR; NOT IN THE LUST OF CONCUPISENCE, EVEN AS THE GENTILES WHICH "KNOW NOT" GOD!!! vs. 7 "FOR GOD HATH NOT CALLED US UNTO "UNCLEANNESS", BUT UNTO HOLINESS!!!

II Pet 2:10}"But chiefly them that WALK AFTER THE FLESH IN THE LUST OF UNCLEANNESS, and despise government; PRESUMPTUOUS ARE THEY, "SELF-WILLED!!!"

Alright now, I believe that should be enough Scripture to convince even the most hardened, that Autosexuality is UNCLEANNESS in the sight of a HOLY GOD, and that every True Christian Disciple will choose (by the Power of the SPIRIT of CHRIST) to refrain from this practice, as it would certainly "DEFILE" GOD'S TEMPLE, WHICH TEMPLE YE ARE!!! Now, for our 7 Reasons why we MUST avoid it:

1) First, BECAUSE IT IS NOT NECESSARY: As a minister and servant of JESUS CHRIST, I have found that my own intimate sexual relationship with my dear wife of 16 years (and 4 children) has only grown deeper and better with time; but as Christian men and women we must guard our sexuality in order to "reserve" that, for the ONE for life spouse that GOD gives us; anything that would "diminish" our personal intimacy would be wrong and unnecessary; only a deceived mind would hold this uncleanness as a necessity of life, as if it were in the same category as food or water!

2) Autosexuality only tends to "INCREASE" one's sexual appetite; those who claim that self-stimulation decreases sexual tension are only serving to add to the desire.

3) Autosexuality "usually" involves sexual sin and lust in the "FANTASY" realm; even though it may not be focused on any one person, yet it almost always involves EVIL IMAGINATIONS!

4) Autosexuality "fixates" on one's own sexual organs and sexual desires, which is the complete opposite of a shared sexual relationship with one's dear spouse.

5) Autosexuality is extremely HABIT-FORMING; it can even lead to OBSESSION; in this way, Autostimulation often does become a form of sexual bondage; thus, the only true way to avoid the possibility of habitual bondage to it, is to never begin!

6) Because in almost "every" case of sexual bondage, from promiscuity to homosexuality and inappropriate contentography, autosexuality plays a central role; Listen, 99% of SEXAHOLICS are "addicted" to self-stimulation; I have personally counselled men who habitually manually please themselves, AND HAVE NO DESIRE TOWARD THEIR WIVES SEXUALLY!

7) Finally, and MOST importantly of all: There "can be" a definite demonic dimension, to uncontrolled, unchecked, unceasing self-gratification! Listen, There ARE DEMONS OF MASTURBATION! This is the most disturbing aspect of this investigation; that is, that some (not all) victims of this heinious activity, will become satanically overcome.

Conclusion: Brethren Beloved, let us take heed to the warnings and admonitions laid down here against Autosexuality; and may we live our lives in such a way as the apostle said, "Let us CLEANSE ourselves from ALL FILTHINESS OF THE FLESH and spirit, Perfecting HOLINESS in the Fear of GOD!!!"

GOD BLESS YOU ALL!

IN HIS SERVICE,

PBO

NAHUM 1:7 

Originally posted by Pastor Bob Oliver
1) First, BECAUSE IT IS NOT NECESSARY: As a minister and servant of JESUS CHRIST, I have found that my own intimate sexual relationship with my dear wife of 16 years (and 4 children) has only grown deeper and better with time; but as Christian men and women we must guard our sexuality in order to "reserve" that, for the ONE for life spouse that GOD gives us; anything that would "diminish" our personal intimacy would be wrong and unnecessary; only a deceived mind would hold this uncleanness as a necessity of life, as if it were in the same category as food or water!

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If you're getting regular sex then yes, masturbation is unnecessary. But what about people who aren't masturbating or having sex? What are the purpose of "wet" dreams, then?

2) Autosexuality only tends to "INCREASE" one's sexual appetite; those who claim that self-stimulation decreases sexual tension are only serving to add to the desire.

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I would have to disagree with this one, based on personal experience. I've found my sexual "appetite" to have decreased quite a bit over the last couple years.

3) Autosexuality "usually" involves sexual sin and lust in the "FANTASY" realm; even though it may not be focused on any one person, yet it almost always involves EVIL IMAGINATIONS!

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*shrug* Can't really argue you too much there. But what about, say, animals or infants who touch (as has been discussed earlier in the thread). Are they also using their "evil imaginations".

4) Autosexuality "fixates" on one's own sexual organs and sexual desires, which is the complete opposite of a shared sexual relationship with one's dear spouse.

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Granted, but I've never met anyone who would prefer self-stimulation over real sex.

5) Autosexuality is extremely HABIT-FORMING; it can even lead to OBSESSION; in this way, Autostimulation often does become a form of sexual bondage; thus, the only true way to avoid the possibility of habitual
bondage to it, is to never begin!

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While compulsive masturbation can be a problem, normal levels of masturbation has no unhealthy side-effects. Any effects are purely psychological.

6) Because in almost "every" case of sexual bondage, from promiscuity to homosexuality and inappropriate contentography, autosexuality plays a central role; Listen, 99% of SEXAHOLICS are "addicted" to self-stimulation; I have personally counselled men who habitually manually please themselves, AND HAVE NO DESIRE TOWARD THEIR WIVES SEXUALLY!

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So were these men's lack of desire for their wives caused by their masturbation? Or was their masturbation merely a result of their lack of desire for their wives?

7) Finally, and MOST importantly of all: There "can be" a definite demonic dimension, to uncontrolled, unchecked, unceasing self-gratification! Listen, There ARE DEMONS OF MASTURBATION! This is the most disturbing aspect of this investigation; that is, that some (not all) victims of this heinious activity, will become satanically overcome.

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"Demons of Masturbation"... I won't even go there.

Hi Pete,

It's clear you are unwilling to give up this sin. Is there an end to your excuses and justifications? You have not given any godly counsel. Instead, you are looking to worldly wisdom, and the world is already condemned.

(Psalms 1:1) Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers.

Much Grace,
4thecross

Originally posted by Pete Harcoff

Sex toys, etc, are products of the adult sex industry. Exposing children to such an industry is wrong, moreso for the potential emotional and psychological consequences of doing so (with relation to current society). Not to mention the legal consequences.

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Ahh and there lies the rub.

dont you see that you just answered your question?  If exposing children to the psychological attitudes of adult masturbation is wrong and emotionally and psychologically harmful then that just proves that children dont "touch". they may touch erogenous zones and find pleasure in doing so, but there is a fundamental difference.  That is the psychological attitude, like you yourself said, children dont fantasize at the same time as doing it, nor do they reach a height of sexual [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Indeed they are wholly innocent of the "sexual" side of it.  This is why masturbation and what a child does is different.  Children do not go through the same psychological or emotional attitudes which are what ultimately cause masturbation to be harmful.  It may not cause any physical damage, lying doesnt necessarily damage anyone physically, but it is wrong because of the emotional and psychological damage that can be done.  It is the same with this.

And as you yourself have said there is no magical barrier at puberty you will have to follow through that argument and say, if exposing children to the perverted side to sex is psychologically damaging, how can it not be so for adults?  Do you really think that adults are unharmed by the same thing that you would say harms a child?  We are not different creatures, if you yell at an adult it hurts just as it would a child.  If exposing a child to masturbation and suggesting perverted sexual activity is wrong then the same must be said for adults.

I am not saying that sex is wrong, no where have we said that, even susan didnt say that.  The fact is that sex is a selfless thing, it is a giving not a recieving.  Masturbation is totally selfish, that is why it is wrong.  It is a misconception that God is against sex or any sort of pleasure, quite the opposite in fact. God created all good things, all pleasure comes from him. He invented sex to be pleasureable and shared. It is the perversion of any natural pleasure that is wrong.  Enjoying eating food becomes gluttony, taking pleasure in your surroundings becomes greed and possesiveness, having a laugh together becomes insulting or bullying someone for kicks.  etc etc.  Masturbation is a perversion of the natural pleasure you get from sex. because sex ultimately as I have said before is about giving not recieving. 

Trust me the thing that distinguishes a sin is that the pleasure decreases over time and the dependance increases.  Someone even said on this thread that their sexual appetite had diminished I wonder why.... Real pleasure increases over time, infact it increases considerably, and there is no negative feeling afterwards.. when you play ball with your kids you dont feel guilty afterwards do you?  CS lewis said the problem with the world is not that we like pleasure too much, but that we dont like it enough, we settle for the negative pleasures more often than the positive ones and in comparison they are 1% to 90%. and they diminish over time.

I cannot comment on wet dreams, I am not male, but I do know that as a female I have the ability to control my dreams, If I find myself starting to dream about something sexually suggestive I am able to "change the subject" as it were.  Im sure if you tried you could too. My problem is more often not that I cant but that I dont want to!

Ultimately whether something is a sin or not is not the point, the point is that God will forgive and he loves us.  I am not entering Heaven by abstinance, I am entering heaven by grace. regardless of what I do in this life, God has died for me and taken away my sin and has called me his daughter.  That is why I enter heaven, it has nothing to do with my behaviour or how good/bad I am.. no matter how good I am even one sin would be a "falling short" it wouldnt matter if it was stealing candy, or raping someone, any sin cuts you off from God and requres you to depend on Jesus for your salvation. That is what Jesus meant when he said that to think lustful thoughts is as bad as adultery.