What are they afraid of?

wblastyn · Oct 13, 2002

Why is it some Christians find dancing, clapping, raising hands, shouting praises to God, etc offensive or "of the devil"?

We are told many times how to praise God in both the Old and New Testament and here are some verses:

WORSHIPPING THE LORD WITH OUR VOICES:

"Let the high praises of God be in their MOUTH and the two-edged sword in their hands" (Psalm 149:6).

"Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, THE FRUIT OF OUR LIPS, giving thanks to His name" (Hebrews 13:15).

SINGING:

"Sing praises unto God, sing praises, sing praises unto our King, sing praises" (Psalm 149:6).

SHOUTING:

"Let those who put their trust in thee rejoice, let them shout for joy" (Psalm 5:11).

"Cry out and shout thou inhabitant of Zion; for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee" (Isaiah 12:6).

WORSHIPPING THE LORD WITH OUR HANDS:

Scripture commands us to use our hands in worship. Most of us find our hands expressive in everyday conversation.

LIFTING THE HANDS:

"Lift up your hands in the sanctuary and bless the Lord" (Psalm 134:2)

"I will therefore that men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands without wrath or doubting" (II Timothy 2:8).

The universal sign of surrender is lifting up the hands!

CLAPPING THE HANDS:

!O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph" (Psalm 47: 1).

Our hands can be used to play musical instruments

"Praise the Lord!
Praise God in His sanctuary
Praise Him in His mighty firmament!
Praise Him for His mighty acts;
Praise Him for His excellent greatness!
Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet;
Praise Him with the lute and harp
Praise Him with the timbrel and dance,
Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes
Praise Him with loud cymbals:,
Praise Him with clashing cymbals,
Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord!" (Psalm 150)

WORSHIPPING THE LORD WITH OUR BODIES:

The bible declares that our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit (I Corinthians 6:19) and that, "we are created for His pleasure" (Revelation 4: 1 1).

STANDING:

"Praise ye the Lord, praise ye the name of the Lord; praise Him o ye servants of the Lord. Ye that stand in the House of the Lord, in the courts of our God" (Psalm 135: 1-2).

BOWING OR KNEELING:

"O come, let us worship and bow down; let us kneel before the Lord our maker" (Psalm 95:6).

DANCING:

"Praise Him with the timbrel and the dance" (Psalm 150:4). "Let them praise His name in the dance" (Psalm 149:3).

From http://www.mpc.org.uk/articles/worship.html

It annoys me when people get all "holier than thou" when someone raises their hands, shouts, etc, to praise God.

Look at what this guy had to say:

"Well as far as we are concerned, we feel that dancing in any shape or form is incompatible with a Christian profession," said Mr McIlveen.

What is wrong with praising God in the ways the Bible tells us to? Does it somehow offend these people, make them feel embarrassed that someone is expressing themselves while praising God? Do they get uncomfortable at a football match when people shout and cheer on footballers? If we can cheer on footballers, then why not God?

What does everyone else think?

fragmentsofdreams · Oct 13, 2002

Prohibitions against nonsinful actions are probably the result of people trying to create a new Law to which they can conform. Like the Pharisees, they believe that perfection in the eyes of God involves a list of do's and don't's. They forget that perfection comes from imitation of God's love.

Andrew · Oct 13, 2002

I think a lot of it has to do with tradition that is not based on the Word of God.

I rem in my former church, this young preacher preached an entire sermon on praising God with hands lifted and with musical instruments and all that, quoting many scriptures from the Bible. That didnt change anything, the folks there still did not want to lift any hands save one or two.

That's one of the reasons why I left the church.

Hanani · Oct 13, 2002

the main argument against this is that your showing off your faith so it's known that your a christian and not in a strong faith way but in a boastfull proud way and i believe Jesus talks about the pharisees doing this but i don't remember were i think it's the same one about praying in public

Andrew · Oct 14, 2002

I dont think its a matter of showing off. I asked my mum and listened to some senior methodist old folks talk abt this. Their main reasons were simply:

1. To old to stand and lift hands up (painful to joints).
2. Music too loud for their ears.
3. Not familiar with contemporary Christian songs (too fast for them to sing along).
4. Feel odd doing it since they've not been doing it all their lives.

but my mum still likes the worship saying it's so much more lively.

Then there are people who believe that a church shld be a very quiet solemn place with stained glass and high arch ceilings, where you can hear a pin drop. That's their idea of a church. so anything loud and jumpy is just way out for them.

SUNSTONE · Oct 14, 2002

Originally posted by Andrew
I think a lot of it has to do with tradition that is not based on the Word of God.

I rem in my former church, this young preacher preached an entire sermon on praising God with hands lifted and with musical instruments and all that, quoting many scriptures from the Bible. That didnt change anything, the folks there still did not want to lift any hands save one or two.

That's one of the reasons why I left the church.

Did you find another church?

SUNSTONE · Oct 14, 2002

Originally posted by Hanani
the main argument against this is that your showing off your faith so it's known that your a christian and not in a strong faith way but in a boastfull proud way and i believe Jesus talks about the pharisees doing this but i don't remember were i think it's the same one about praying in public

I think that we should be proud to be a Christian.
[For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline. Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, or of me His prisoner.] 2 Tim 1:7+8

The pharisees where "only" praying in public, Jesus does want you to pray in public, but don't let it be the only time you do it. They only prayed when people were around to hear it.Jesus blessed the bread in public, raised and healed many people in public, cast out demons in public.

If you see someone worship like this, and you "feel" that it is wrong, I believe you are being attacked in your thoughts by the devil.
If there heart is never in it, and they only do it because others see them, God will know it.
I can fully understand what you are going through. I too get attacked like this. There is this lady at my church who sings like an opera singer, in a contemporary worship service. This will get on my nerves, if I let it.

Blackhawk · Oct 14, 2002

Originally posted by Hanani
the main argument against this is that your showing off your faith so it's known that your a christian and not in a strong faith way but in a boastfull proud way and i believe Jesus talks about the pharisees doing this but i don't remember were i think it's the same one about praying in public

This is true for some and others no.  There are some that just do these things to show off or because everyone else is doing it or they want to be in the in crowd.  That is wrong.  If the Spirit leads you to lift your hands okay but I think some people are not lead by the Spirit.  Also there are times when dancing and lifting hands or whatever is not appropriate.  So I think that we need to have appropriate ways to worship.  This is kind of a hard thing to judge but I feel that if we were really being lead in the Spirit we would not have to worry about this.  But sometimes I feel that certain forms of worship are not appropriate.  Sometimes we all need to be still and silent while other times it is the time to dnace and lift hands. 

Another reason why this kind of worship can be wrong is that it could interfere with others worshipping.  Again if we are lead by the Spirit i think this would not occur as much.  I feel that in corporate worship we must understand that others are with us and we should try not to impede others worsdhip as much as possible.  It is not always our fault and really I would say it is never only our fault.  But sometimes I think that we need to think if others can worship while we are worshipping during corporate worship. 

So in summary this question like many others is more situational except that WE MUST BE LEAD BY THE SPIRIT!  That is in all cases.  However the Spirit may lead me to be silent and pray instead of sing and you to jump around and dance.  Possibly at the same time.   

eldermike · Oct 14, 2002

Music is only one method of worship. When we name the song service worship service, we miss the point. We were created for worship just as all of God's creation reveals His glory, so do our submitted lives. We worship with our very lives.

Worship styles in song services are a matter of tradition. There is no such thing as Christian music, no more than there is secular music. There are Christian lyrics but the music is just music and the style of music is neither good nor bad, it's just music. Music is tones and intervals arranged into a pleasing form (what pleases some displeases others), but, what is pleasing to God is worship, what is pleasing to us is preference. If words are placed into tones and interval then it's music with words.

Singing is a method of worship, we use our bodies to create tones and interval into words as a method of worship, we were designed to do so.
Dancing is a method of reacting to tones and interval, again we were designed to do so.
Raising hands, clapping, snapping fingers, dancing any of these can be a normal reaction to tones and interval and they can also be an act to true worship in truth and in Spirit. Both are normal designed in features of God's creation, man.

IMHO, If we worship in truth and in Spirit then there is no right or wrong way.

SUNSTONE · Oct 14, 2002

What is "lead by the spirit"?

Blackhawk · Oct 14, 2002

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
What is "lead by the spirit"?

Well the Holy Spirit is our helper in this world today.  He hears what God the FAther says and convicts us.  i believe that "Being lead by the Spirit" means that we are hearing the Holy Spirit and obeying what He is saying.  This will not go against the Bible but will not alwaysbe what we think the most logical thing to do is.  So "being lead by the HS" is to be lead by God and doing His will. 

Blackhawk

wblastyn · Oct 14, 2002

the main argument against this is that your showing off your faith so it's known that your a christian and not in a strong faith way but in a boastfull proud way and i believe Jesus talks about the pharisees doing this but i don't remember were i think it's the same one about praying in public

Well if you're in Church most people will know you're a Christian anyway. I don't think we should refrain from praising God in fear of people thinking we are boasting, etc.

Hanani · Oct 14, 2002

sunstone some of your rebutles are good and i agree i was simply pointing out y alot of others (not i) may believe actions like weve described in worship to be bad

and sometimes they are right but i think saying that any kind of worship thisway is bad is way to far

and wblastyn as sad as it may be not everyone at church is christian also if your taking it that they are then that would mean they are gathered together and that is not in public

fragmentsofdreams · Oct 14, 2002

It's difficult to distinguish between sincere devotion and devotion faked for social approval. The best way to deal with it probably is to warn about faking devotion but never accuse anyone.

Andrew · Oct 15, 2002

"Did you find another church?"

Yes Sunstone, I did find a great church which is now my home church.

One night on the beach while longing for a place I could worship freely, where Christians just lift up their hands freely, i had a mental vision/impression. I saw a large congregation in front of me with hands lifted up praising and worshipping God. Now i see that all the time in my current church! Of cse, there's a lot more to how God led me to this church, ....

SnuP · Oct 15, 2002

Almost every single one of you is focased on the wrong thing.  There for you are wong.  It is not you job to figure out who is worshiping right or not.  In fact you sould be assuming the best of everyone, for that is the way of love.  If you are focused only on God then you will have no problem worshipping no matter what is happening around you.  In fact you can worship God in the middle of Madi-gra or a club.  True worship starts with an attitude of the heart and extends out througth action.  If your heart is right you should not worry about what kind of actions are appropriate, just go with how you feel (on a side note:  don't be a stumbling block; these coments are reserved for places where there is freedom).  If you are spending your time trying to figure out is something is appropriate then you are just entering into a form of judgement (sin).  Leave that job to the leadership.  We should be expresing our worship to God every minute of everyday, using what ever expresion we feel lead without any reservation.

Be like David.  Don't, don't be like his sister in law.

Blackhawk · Oct 15, 2002

Originally posted by SnuP
  It is not you job to figure out who is worshiping right or not.  In fact you sould be assuming the best of everyone, for that is the way of love. 

However there in corporate worship there are proper ways to worship in certain situations.  It is corporate. 

If you are focused only on God then you will have no problem worshipping no matter what is happening around you.  In fact you can worship God in the middle of Madi-gra or a club.  True worship starts with an attitude of the heart and extends out througth action. [/B]

 

True. 

 

If your heart is right you should not worry about what kind of actions are appropriate, just go with how you feel (on a side note:  don't be a stumbling block; these coments are reserved for places where there is freedom). [/B]

Click to expand...

 

But how you feel is not always correct.  many times how one feels is completely wrong. 

  

If you are spending your time trying to figure out is something is appropriate then you are just entering into a form of judgement (sin).  Leave that job to the leadership.  We should be expresing our worship to God every minute of everyday, using what ever expresion we feel lead without any reservation.

Be like David.  Don't, don't be like his sister in law. [/B]

Click to expand...

What if you are the leadership which does not only extend to the minister. 

SnuP · Oct 15, 2002

Let those running the service, run the service. The flesh does not want to glorify God, it wants to glorify itself. If your focas is glorifing God then what you feel like doing to glorify God will not becoming from you flesh. It will probably be coming from your spirit. But even is it is coming from your own mind or heart at least the desire is holy and will please God. And that is the whole point, to please God. Worrying about what is right and wrong does not please God because it relies upon your own judgement. That is the whole point of my last post, to stop using your own judgement.

KeepTheFaith15 · Oct 15, 2002

my youth group on wednesday nights, we lift our hands, we clap we sing as loud as we can we bang our head we jump up and down all for the glory of god, whats wrong with having fun in the lords presence? i see nothing at all wrong with it, but we also have slow powerful melodys that get us uplifted in light of the lord. it's a great feeling. i live for wednesday nights, thinking about ti now gets a feeling in my tummy, i just cant wait to go, cause it's just an amazing feeling, we had 4 people get saved wednesday night, we showed them that you can have christ centered fun, by moving around and just having fun with the lord. i feel pity to the ones who look down on us for singing our praises to the lord that way. but just smile and go on.

KeepTheFaith15 · Oct 15, 2002

im sure i got off subject or was never even on the subject LOL

What are they afraid of?

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