the universe, at least to me, could not have formed by blind chance and coincidence..

gamespotter10 · Sep 24, 2007

our universe contains 10^80 baryons. If the universe contained 10^21 more baryons, which is an extra 1 part in 10^59, the universe would have collapsed before life was even possible.

how much mass is in 10^21 baryons? well, the mass of a single baryon is 1.67^-27 kg. If we multiply this by 10^21, we get 1.67^-6 kg, which is 1.67 milligrams, or, about a grain of sand

so, to summarize it, the universe, if it contained an extra grain of sand's worth of mass, it would have collapsed and life would never have gotten started.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/universe_too_large.html#n07

notto · Sep 24, 2007

You forgot to show or reference the actual evidence to support your claims.

For some reason I'm guessing this is not original work and that you may not really be providing the conclusions in the proper context or in the proper format.

Could you share with us the peer reviewed scientific research you used as reference to your claims?

Can you explain to us how you came to your conclusions?

(or at least provide the creationist site you took them from)

I'm guessing you may not know a baryon if one poked you in the eye.

gamespotter10 · Sep 24, 2007

notto said:
You forgot to show or reference the actual evidence to support your claims.

For some reason I'm guessing this is not original work and that you may not really be providing the conclusions in the proper context or in the proper format.

Could you share with us the peer reviewed scientific research you used as reference to your claims?

Can you explain to us how you came to your conclusions?

(or at least provide the creationist site you took them from)

I'm guessing you may not know a baryon if one poked you in the eye.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/universe_too_large.html

gamespotter10 · Sep 24, 2007

gamespotter10 said:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/universe_too_large.html

oh, and by the way, a baryon is a family of subatomic particles made up of 3 quarks.

baryons include the proton and the neutron.

so, if a baryon hit me in the face, then yes, I would know what they are

mrpiddly · Sep 24, 2007

well if there were trilions and trillions of universes , then there is at least a small chance that one of them will not blow it self up (probably more then one)

metherion · Sep 24, 2007

I guess that God just isn't powerful enough to have made physical laws that wouldn't need huge amounts of mass outside our solar system to have fusion and thus heavier elements exist.

So He must have done it because only He can do it so precisely, even though He isn't powerful enough to make it exist in any way but the current way.

Metherion

[serious] · Sep 24, 2007

You will either need to cite a source for that claim or present the math leading you to that conclusion. As I doubt you have the grounding in advanced physics to do that math at 15, I'm assuming you got this from somewhere. I'd like to know where as I currently very much doubt it.

There are a number of reasons I doubt the claim, not the least of which is we don't know how much matter is in the universe to that precision so it would be impossible to claim that small amount of mass would take us from an open universe to a closed universe. Also, you would have to know the ammount of dark matter and dark energy. Also, much of the mass in the universe is made up of non baryonic matter. If dark matter falls into this category, it would be a majority of matter in the universe.

us38 · Sep 24, 2007

gamespotter10 said:
our universe contains 10^80 baryons. If the universe contained 10^21 more baryons, which is an extra 1 part in 10^59, the universe would have collapsed before life was even possible.

how much mass is in 10^21 baryons? well, the mass of a single baryon is 1.67^-27 kg. If we multiply this by 10^21, we get 1.67^-6 kg, which is 1.67 milligrams, or, about a grain of sand

so, to summarize it, the universe, if it contained an extra grain of sand's worth of mass, it would have collapsed and life would never have gotten started.

From whence was this pulled?

[serious] · Sep 24, 2007

just read the source, Little issue, the article cites wikipedia as a source for the "collapse" claim. However, not only does the wikipedia article never claim that, but it suggests that it wouldn't be very sensitive to mass fluctuations.

"Although the baryon per photon ratio is important in determining elemental abundances, the precise value makes little difference to the overall picture"

Robbie_James_Francis · Sep 24, 2007

Oh my god! Brainwashed, idiotic morons that don't even have two brain cells to bang together have challenged the ideas of intelligent, learned scientists. Whatever will I do?!

Your desperate attempts to justify your laughable fairy tale won't work.

mrpiddly · Sep 24, 2007

god sure went to alot of trouble just to create earth.

First he made made a universe that is vastly huge. Then he faked billions of years of history. He made everything out of tiny particles of energy that are smaller then anyone will ever see. He made everything unique in the entire universe.

Then he created all the laws of physics and tied them all together with constants and one grand equation, then he hid this all away.

Then he made 11 dimensions, only 4 of which really actually mattered to earth.

Then he repeated this infinite times creating infinite universes, all with slighly different physics and dimensions.

Then he finally created earth, a planet so small that even the sun dwarfs it, and the sun is only one of trillions of stars in this universe alone.

Seems like he went to alot of trouble for you religious foke, most of whom would have never even looked beyond the clouds anyways.

Late_Cretaceous · Sep 24, 2007

Newsflash:
Evolutionists do not believe the universe came into being by blind chance nor coincidence. That goes for both atheists and theists.

Late_Cretaceous · Sep 24, 2007

us38 said:
From whence was this pulled?

From whence was this pulled?

Can't you tell by the smell?

gamespotter10 · Sep 24, 2007

Robbie_James_Francis said:
Oh my god! Brainwashed, idiotic morons that don't even have two brain cells to bang together have challenged the ideas of intelligent, learned scientists. Whatever will I do?!

Your desperate attempts to justify your laughable fairy tale won't work.

atheistic bigotry at its best

gamespotter10 · Sep 24, 2007

Late_Cretaceous said:
Newsflash:
Evolutionists do not believe the universe came into being by blind chance nor coincidence. That goes for both atheists and theists.

Im not a creationist, I am most definitely convinced that evolution is true

lemmings · Sep 24, 2007

gamespotter10 said:
atheistic bigotry at its best

A man who is intolerant of others at least makes his thoughts known. You can never really trust a source that has lied.

Robbie_James_Francis · Sep 24, 2007

gamespotter10 said:
atheistic bigotry at its best

Bigotry? It's called reason, my friend. A creationist position deserves no more place in society than a tooth-fairy one does. Enjoy your martyr complex.

It is not a case of belief, it is a case of fact. Hence I have no respect whatsoever for creationism because it deserves none.

It deserves worse than that, but what a sane person would say about this madness would be censored by this forum.

Phred · Sep 24, 2007

Then please tell me... how exactly did God create a baryon?

mrpiddly · Sep 24, 2007

gamespotter10 · Sep 24, 2007

mrpiddly said:

im not a ****ing creationist!!!

dont we actually still use leeches to help heal wounds?

the universe, at least to me, could not have formed by blind chance and coincidence..

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