Questions regarding on reading the Bible and more?!

The Bible generally seems to be a book of many genres and it's clear that there are some sections that are allegorical such as the parables, while other parts are more poetic such as the psalms. My question is throughout the other general bibical texts how can you tell on more general term when passages are metaphoric or litertal. Generally how should I view the book and what kind of book am I exactly supposed to be reading. How would you reccomend reading the bible is their any particular way of reading it? What is the purpose of the old testament and some of the graphic displays of cruelty in it. Out of curiousity what are the basic arguments or resources against evolution. I just want to hear a strong creationist argument, which I've yet to see but I'm curious at how it go so to speak.The bible to me is a little hard to take seriously when I try reading it and I at this point of time see it as Hewbrew mythology, but I'm willing to hear the Christian perspective on and am trying to be a bit more open-minded. One last question...does anybody know what the gnostic scriptures are?

Your question is intelligent & thorough. I am not a theologion so I tread cautiously here but the early church summed up the Christian faith in the Nicene Creed (it took centuries actually). Here is a version of it: http://www.antiochian.org/674 Generally the church would consider the Old Testament to be the formation to what is fulfilled in the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the New Testament (pitfalls and all). The creed acts as a yardstick against false scriptures that are not of the Christian faith (ex. the gnostic writings). Perhaps the earliest summmation of how the early Christian communities existed is in a late 1st century catechism called the Didache (http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-lightfoot.html. I hope this is helpful since it shows what early Christians believed and how they worshipped without me giving you my opinions.

How Do I Read The Bible?

Your initial assumptions are correct. When the book is obviously poetic then it should be considered... poetry. When it's written as historical it should be taken as... historical. Basically what you are asking about is called Hermeneutics (How to read & understand the Bible). Also use simple verses to understand more confusing ones. Early verses create a foundational perspective while later verses expound on this concept. As for knowing when to take the verse as literal or poetic the context can usually tell you (ie: "faith is like" is obviously not literal its a comparison).

What is the purpose of the Old Testament?

Essentially it is to show God's love for mankind and how we constantly fall short. The prophets were sent by God to call people back to following Him and His law rather than other gods, idols, or sinful desires. It also points to and prophecied of the coming a chosen one (aka Messiah) who would bring peace and judgement to the world.

Creation Argument

Simply put? God made it. Basically follow the history put forth in the Bible and that's creationism for you (Eden...Fall of man...Worldwide Flood...Aftermath...Waiting for New heaven & new earth). There are many great sources for creationism (Answers In Genesis). Scientifically I have find many faults in the "theory of evolution"
- Violates Law of Entropy
- Violates Law of Biogenesis
- Lack of intermediary forms
- Genetic limits of DNA
- Lack of beneficiary mutations
- Reliance upon proven falsehoods (ie: embryology)
However, debates are for other sections.

Gnostic Writings:
These are writings with a specific "Gnostic" twist to them. The are considered heresay by the church and therefore not included in the Bible (canon). They present some sort of "special knowledge" that they percieve to be the truth. However, one of the main requirements for a book to be accepted into the canon was that it was written by or had the authority of an Apostle.

GuitarHero2 said:

The Bible generally seems to be a book of many genres and it's clear that there are some sections that are allegorical such as the parables, while other parts are more poetic such as the psalms. My question is throughout the other general bibical texts how can you tell on more general term when passages are metaphoric or litertal. Generally how should I view the book and what kind of book am I exactly supposed to be reading. How would you reccomend reading the bible is their any particular way of reading it? What is the purpose of the old testament and some of the graphic displays of cruelty in it. Out of curiousity what are the basic arguments or resources against evolution. I just want to hear a strong creationist argument, which I've yet to see but I'm curious at how it go so to speak.The bible to me is a little hard to take seriously when I try reading it and I at this point of time see it as Hewbrew mythology, but I'm willing to hear the Christian perspective on and am trying to be a bit more open-minded. One last question...does anybody know what the gnostic scriptures are?

Click to expand...

Heya Guitar Hero,

I would suggest starting to read John, if you are interested as it's a historical account of Jesus' life from John's viewpoint and covers all the basics of Christianity, it's a really good example of a relationship with God, or Christ.

If you are keen on evolution vs creation, there are many resources. I think the topic is a little large to cover here. I would suggest Christian Answers and Answers in Genesis if you wish to read further and hear their arguments.

Evolution doesn't necessarily contradict Genesis, it all depends on how you read it. I used to fervently debate this topic, but really I just came down to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter, and it was taking a lot of time away from my relationship with God.

How to determine parables and literal events in the Bible is a tricky one. Other than reading it at face value, which can often be a little hit and miss with the modern translations, I would suggest if you are in doubt as to something, to spend some time researching it. I think a large part of the Bible for me, takes on a literal account, whereas other parts are clearly metaphorical and this all depends on the setting and how the rest of the Bible refers to it (if it does).

Cheers!
Digit

Hmmmm...a lot of well written questions.

You are correct, translators of the Bible did tend to place the scriptures categorically. I took a class in college that went over these different categories that you are intelligent enough to see on your own. The different categoies should help you to determine your question. Prophecy is not literal as is Poetry. The rest is fairly literal context.

The Old testament is an accounting of earlier days and works hand in hand with the New Testament in interpreting later parts of the Bible. Spiritual maturity helps readers understand the more 'harder to accept' parts of the Bible. We have to account that 'free will' that lead to sin was the reasonings behind what you might consider now to be more 'absolute' [that you call cruel].

Addressing creationism. Consider the 'holes' in the scientific theories that exist. Yet people believe them. Why is that?

I'd ask you to place all the earth's molecules and substance in a huge cosmic bag and shake them up and hit them with a 'big bang' and would an 'earth' be created? Of course not.

We see no 'new' earths being created. We see desolute planets in our solar system, but not life.

We also no see the evolution of creatures, but rather 'distinction' of many creature (including the great apes and monkey that evolutionist say we are akin to). Why aren't these evolving.

Okay so I've pointed out holes in evolutionism, however, one thing that 'even' scientists agree upon is the 'historical' accuracy of the Bible.

We also find prophecy predicted long before man felt it possible to be revealed.

We find a 'book' that is held in its integrity despite years of translations in different languages, etc. Outside of Shakespeare...there is no other 'book' with this history.

It is simple enough to consider man and how we create 'all' that we do upon the earth. Yet, the earth is designed as a sound ecological system that is able to survive beyond that of man's errors.

To assume that there is no creator would be illogical from the standpoint of history. Most cultures have held that there must be a god...despite not agreeing upon the god it is.

The Bible answers these questions. Other religions have failed in accuracy. The Bible has withstood all tests and holds proven accuracy that even scientists can not deny.

The agnostic books I am not completely familiar with, but they could be the Apocrypha (uncannonized writings found during the same era the Bible was). Some believe the Apocrypha is Hebrew or early Messianic Jewish writings. Most faiths do not include these as regular scriptures (I've not heard the term agnositc for these though). I'd have to research further.

Wonderful questions and as stated earlier they are written with much intelligence. Thanks for posting these.

GuitarHero2 said:

. . . how should I view the book and what kind of book am I exactly supposed to be reading. . . .

Click to expand...

It was inspired by the Holy Spirit, so to really understand and have what it refers to, God's Life, you need to be "born again":-

"Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

"For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God." (1 Cor. 2:11)

The bible ("the book") is 66 books of God's dealings with his people, past, present and future.

The numerical significance of 66 in bible terms is:-
11 (revelation) x 6 (man) = revelation given to man.

It is mainly about eternal spiritual truths that are only really understood by those in Christ, the eternal son of God.

"Of which salvation the prophets (Old Testament) have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into." (1 Peter 1:10-12)

When I started reading the Bible, people had presented it to me as the infallible Word of God, so I approached it as if everything in it were true and good.

But after reading, I realized that I couldn't take a sentence out of it and say "this is good." There are many stories within it that mix human error with God's intervention, and they don't include a commentary on which parts were right and wrong.

For instance, Abraham lied about his wife Sarah. He was afraid that he would be killed so soldiers could take his beautiful wife, so he said she was his sister. They still took her.

That was a human action, and God still followed along beside them and made the situation work for the good. The reader has to form their own reactions and value judgments in some of these stories.

You are right that the genres vary -- colleges even offer courses on the breakdown, the literary structure. I took a course in Psalms, and we studied the categorization of Psalms: penitential, praising, petitioning, imprecatory (look at Psalms 7, 35, 55, 58, 59, 69, 79, 109, 137, 139), etc.

There are times in the Bible when a believer cries out to God in anger, or mistrust, or desire for vengeance. It is the human experience.

The events of the Bible weaves these human experiences in with God's real and amazing intervention. That is the Christian walk, and that is the experience that God expects us to have. Fallible people, getting through life with good intentions and with help.

We sometimes make faith appear that we are robots programmed with the code for perfect life, because it's cleaner and tidier. But we are beings with emotions that relate to a God with emotions. When personalities relate, there are unpredictabilities. When life happens, we deal.

I find it helps me to get the complete story lines better when I listen to the Bible on audio. No tiny numbers, no stopping to analyze a term. The story flows and I quickly hear the beginning and the end.

Hello,
The OT was the set of books given to the children of Israel.
The books cover Israel's history,
the laws God gave to the children of Israel,
prophecy about Israel, about Jesus, and more.

The NT starts with 4 biographies of Jesus,
the history of the early church,
various letters to different churches instructing them on various issues they were experiencing,
and finally a book of end-times prophecy.

Evolution doesn't necessarily contradict Genesis, it all depends on how you read it. I used to fervently debate this topic, but really I just came down to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter, and it was taking a lot of time away from my relationship with God.

Click to expand...

I ran across a PBS show discussing how different cultures view time. The speaker considered the Judeo-Christian presentation very linear, where Chinese and other concurrent cultures were termed cyclical.

The Chinese used dynasties to mark eras -- everything fit within the rise and fall of each emperor and empire. An event would be described within that context -- at the beginning of the reign of....

And we see a little of that in the Bible.
1Ki 15:9 2Ki 8:25 2Ki 25:1 2Ch 16:1 Ezr 6:15 Jer 27:1 Jer 28:1 Jer 49:34 Jer 52:4 Da 1:1 Jer 26:1

(In the beginning of the reign of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, this word came from the LORD, saying...)

Native Americans used events to describe the context of time-- “The Years the Stars Fell.” (Leonid Meteor Shower of the Winter of 1833-34) .

What this has to do with Genesis -- the creation story was written after generations of [assumed] oral tradition. The early books of the Bible used geneology thickly to show dates.

It could be that their geneological view of time was more important to them than the calendar sense of time. But we make it important because the precision of calendar time is so important to us.

heron said:

I ran across a PBS show discussing how different cultures view time. The speaker considered the Judeo-Christian presentation very linear, where Chinese and other concurrent cultures were termed cyclical.

The Chinese used dynasties to mark eras -- everything fit within the rise and fall of each emperor and empire. An event would be described within that context -- at the beginning of the reign of....

And we see a little of that in the Bible.
1Ki 15:9 2Ki 8:25 2Ki 25:1 2Ch 16:1 Ezr 6:15 Jer 27:1 Jer 28:1 Jer 49:34 Jer 52:4 Da 1:1 Jer 26:1

(In the beginning of the reign of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, this word came from the LORD, saying...)

Native Americans used events to describe the context of time-- “The Years the Stars Fell.” (Leonid Meteor Shower of the Winter of 1833-34) .

What this has to do with Genesis -- the creation story was written after generations of [assumed] oral tradition. The early books of the Bible used geneology thickly to show dates.

It could be that their geneological view of time was more important to them than the calendar sense of time. But we make it important because the precision of calendar time is so important to us.

Click to expand...

Hello,
The ancient Hebrew culture looked at time cyclicly.
It's the Greek thinking which brought linear time

Merlin said:

Hello,
The ancient Hebrew culture looked at time cyclicly.
It's the Greek thinking which brought linear time

Click to expand...

LOL, I just repped Heron with that same tidbit!

LOL, I just repped Heron with that same tidbit!

Click to expand...

Hey, thanks!

Hello,
The ancient Hebrew culture looked at time cyclicly.
It's the Greek thinking which brought linear time

Click to expand...

I thought so too -- it was the PBS speaker who described it that way. Probably because he was looking at the whole grouping of thousands of Judeo-Christian years.

Out of curiousity what are the basic arguments or resources against evolution. I just want to hear a strong creationist argument, which I've yet to see but I'm curious at how it go so to speak.

Click to expand...

When all else fails, play guitar hero and your thoughts will come together.
(-;

There are many threads on this in other parts of the forum, so you might want to skim over what people have said in different discussions -- getting a better range of information.

GuitarHero2----

The Bible is a spiritual and supernatural book and can be only fully understood with the help of the Holy Spirit. Is the Bible true? I strongly suggest you read the Evidence that Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (it would stand up in a court of law concerning validity and overwhelming evidence concerning the credibility of the Bible). And Examine the Evidence by Muncaster(a former athiest).

Why can't you fully understand it? Again its a spiritual and supernatural book and I didn't understand it until I asked Christ in my life and became a christian. When this happens, the Holy Spirit comes into your life and the understanding of the Bible is much easier. Going to a bible study helps also - when you read a book of the bible you must understand who the author is and why he is writing with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Below are some primary facts about the Bible and why its the most true book in the world. Only a God could have written it.

Biblical Evidence (Scratching the Surface Only)

Internal Evidences
Prophesies that are confirmed within Bible

- Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke's time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 -Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

**I can list at least 20 more of these.
-Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20) and a fourth great kingdom to follow - part iron and clay - which is the Roman Empire - during this empire Christ came and the church was established - Daniel 2:44.

-Historical Accuracy
The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago, yet has not been proven incorrect on any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament - starts at 25 years - between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies
New Testament - 5,686
Homer - 643
Demosthenes - 200
Plato - 7
Caesar - 10

Consistency
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no internal inconsistencies.

Claim of Inspiration
It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.

External Evidences
(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never be built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22)
Tyre (Ezekiel 26:1-28)

Bible before Science
He hangs the earth on nothing - Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago - some scholars think it could be even 3000 years ago)
Note: Man only knew this for 350 years
Earth is a sphere, Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight, Job 28:25
Gravity - Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33
Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogoical Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel. There are continuous findings here - this is just the tip of the iceberg.


I also recommend going to the Christian Research Institute website and to www.reasons.org (science and belief). A man with a PhD in Chemistry started it for a start.

A good possible summary of the scriptures could start by reading Romans 1 & 2 (St. Paul briefly describes our Lord's salvation & describes the sinful human predicament he saves us from). Acts 7 where St. Stephen provides an excellent summary of the Old Testament covenant. John 1 the identity & purpose of the incarnation of Jesus Christ our Saviour & the beginning of repentance ministered by St. John the Baptist etc. Matthew chptrs 5, 6, & 7 our Saviour outlines his Gospel & its requirements.

First and foremost I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to respond to my questions. I may post some for comments or questions later when I have a chance. I just have to go to school, but I'll come back on when I get a chance.

Okay I'm back and this question is a little different. I'm just wondering how would you define faith. It's hard for me to "drop everything and every other idea" to believe in one aspect of life or religion despite the other things out there. Why do you believe or have faith in Christianity?

reading Romans 1 & 2 (St. Paul briefly describes our Lord's salvation & describes the sinful human predicament he saves us from). Acts 7 where St. Stephen provides an excellent summary of the Old Testament covenant.

Click to expand...

That's a good idea. I like these for running through a reasoning process.

The term faith was always very vauge to me, probably because it has so many uses.

Clinging to one religion is a decision to submit yourself to its teachings and usually its rituals.

Generally, faith is what you believe, yourself.

If you jumped into a religion, you probably would inwardly resist a lot of its teachings, because they are new to you and probably would not all make sense immediately.

It is hard to drop everything and believe, because belief is in the heart and mind.

Jesus' disciples started by dropping their nets and following him around, listening to his teachings. They didn't sign their souls over the minute He approached them.

Yes, mastaa...

GuitarHero2 said:

Okay I'm back and this question is a little different. I'm just wondering how would you define faith. It's hard for me to "drop everything and every other idea" to believe in one aspect of life or religion despite the other things out there. Why do you believe or have faith in Christianity?

Click to expand...

Hey GuitarHero,

Can you do me a favour, and read this. I'm sorry for being lazy, but my wife and I are playing Titan Quest: Immortal Throne, and I didn't want to retype that. It doesn't address your specific questions, but it does point out the line of thinking that I have, and I think I share with some others. First and foremost though, faith is believing in something that cannot necessarily be proven. There is only one definition of faith, and that's pretty much it. It resorts to an axiom, which is something that we just 'assume' to be true. All logical thought is based off of axioms when you get down to their base common denominator. Even science uses axioms.

I think the one thing I have learnt from the Bible, is that not everything is first as it appears, and it's a very exciting thing to realise this, when studying a particular part of it. For example, I read a lot of what is in the Bible that teaches us about relationships, and how to treat each other and love each other. I did this as I was due to get married and was wondering what was asked of me in my role as a husband. After learning what was taught, I found it to be really helpful and it improved my life. I looked deeper, and found more information and more teachings and tried them, and my relationships improved. All it takes is that first positive experience to have a, "Ok, what does it say about this..." mentality that leads you onwards. Before you know it, you are knee-deep in scripture and really hooked.

If you are concerned about some things in the Bible, then research them. For example, look up dinosaurs, or science or the contradictions present and read how Christian Theologists explain them and so on. It just takes that first interested step to lead you on.

Cheers!
Digit

Just another question. Let's say for whatever reason a family member or close friend of yours goes to hell. If you happen to make it to Heaven how would you ever be happy or at peace. I know this question might be difficult to answer, but I'm willing to hear people give their insight.