And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness

Lisa0315

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Annabel, I am glad you are posting here. In addition to wolves in sheep's clothing beware kitties that have pentagram stigmata.

You friend,
drstevej

Pastor Steve,
We could really use your guidance here.

How do we correct ourselves here? How do we become the light of CF instead of the stick poking out other people's eyes?

Lisa
 
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Miss Shelby

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Ephesians 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. 3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Thoughts?
I look at it more as instruction to have fellowship with fellow, likeminded believers. My closest friends are Christians, and serious about it. I don't have very many, but numbers are not what counts. I think it's also important to be involved in things that keep one in touch with the Christian life, such as service through Church and also fellowship activies.

AA is an organization that operates this way. It's based on trust and all of the members have a common goal. To stay sober through the Grace of God. They find immense support and friendship through this program, whose principals are very Christian.

I know that when I am not around other people who are Christian and active in the life, I can feel myself slip away.

But I have plenty of people I would consider friends who have different beliefs than I do, I just try to be the best Christian I can be so that maybe they can see Christ in that. And I don't really get together with them on a social basis, like work friends, very often, due to lack of time and because my family and other friends come first.
 
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drstevej

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Pastor Steve,
We could really use your guidance here.

How do we correct ourselves here? How do we become the light of CF instead of the stick poking out other people's eyes?

Lisa

Annabel might like to join in. We got to be friends at IIDB and I find her perspective worth adding to the answer.

First, I think it is important to be yourself in Christ. Our light is only the light of Christ in us. So being genuine I think is key.

Second, be willing to present the truth despite the response. Do it in your own style but biblical truth transforms. I find many PM me for pastoral input based on my posts they have read. Often they have only been lurkers.

Third, guard this place! A biblical community I believe is contagious,

Fourth, got hang around in here too much. Hit the streets (forums) and see what happens.

And Lisa, as staff you have a good opportunity to encourage other staffers. It is a thankless task often and an encouraging word / a few reps / a guest book entry can really be encouraging.

As FORU.MS gets darker amid postmodern haze, the light of the gospel shines brighter. So preach the word in a style that is you and trust the Lord to use His word.

And finally, do not make it your goal to be liked. Remember there are more lurkers than those posting and often they are the most receptive.

Just my 2 cents and not the final answer.

Steve
 
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drstevej

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PS - A New Dawn and I went round and round over doctrine, etc. before she grasped some of the key issues. It was a rocky road but she always would check out the Scripture I gave her. And now she is an awesome mod (SA) and makes an impact here.
 
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MrJim

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I agree! So, how do we become the light here, Jim? How do we fix "us"?

Lisa

Consider first the Corinthian passage earlier noted:

1Cor5: 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

This is a pretty clear first step in dealing with others on this matter. Paul clearly is defining a difference between believers, or as he calls it "any man that is called a brother", and unbelievers, the people "of this world". So if a homosexual or abortionist earnestly is called a brother, then I cannot have fellowship with that person, for the scripture is clear in this manner.

Regarding the nature of self:

1Cor9:24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. 25 Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. 27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
If I watch this sort of thing under the guise of "entertainment" am I not partaking of the same?

...continuing the same passage:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
...have I crucified the flesh?

Crucifying the flesh~of course Jesus said:

Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

...and it goes on and on, I would dare say it's the theme of the gospels, this crucifying self and following Christ. How it is done then is the question, in that as a society american evangelical christians tend to be about the same as nonchristians in lifestyle~that is, how we live, work, play. It just has some religious croutons sprinkled in.

...gee this got kinda long:o
 
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MrJim

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Yes, evil is relative.

Evil is not relative.

Evil in how we deal with other is~if it's one called a brother engaged in evil we deal with it one way, if it's one "of the world" we deal with it in another.

See earlier post.
 
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Debi1967

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Yes, evil is relative. There are some who think athiests are evil. I think of them as potential brothers and sisters. I find the wolves in sheep's clothing to be the ones who are truly evil. Those who profess Christ but act like Satan. I think abortion is evil, but I have sympathy for the mothers in some cases. I think the abortionists and lobbying groups are evil. I think homosexuality is evil, but I have sympathy for GLBT's because I feel that they are deceived and worse they receive such a mixed message from Christians regarding their lifestyle.

See what I am saying? So, do we cut off all contact with atheists, homosexuals and women who have had abortions? I don't think so. I think this Scripture talks about those who are gossipy, instigators, liars, and many other things. We are supposed to reach out to sinners but not congregate with those who not only sin but do it with glee and malice. Does that make sense?

Lisa
No we don't cut off contact with them but at the same time have to realize that they do not walk in the same light that we do. Iows they do walk in darkness. We are told in that scripture to reprove them for their sin, but not to fellowship; with them. This is so that we do not get caught up in the darkness with them.

And btw what do you think a pharisee is?
 
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MrJim

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No we don't cut off contact with them

1Cor5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1Tim1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Yeah, I do read here that there is a "cut off" point with these people.
 
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Lisa0315

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No we don't cut off contact with them but at the same time have to realize that they do not walk in the same light that we do. Iows they do walk in darkness. We are told in that scripture to reprove them for their sin, but not to fellowship; with them. This is so that we do not get caught up in the darkness with them.

And btw what do you think a pharisee is?

I think a Pharissee today is one who professes Christ, but does one of two things. Either they teach such a legalistic doctrine that all are condemned or they teach such a watered down gospel that no one is ever saved.

Lisa
 
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MrJim

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Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star. 29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

:eek: The results of fellowshipping with the unfruitful works of darkness, this could be used as an example in so many different ways..
 
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MrJim

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Colossians 3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. 3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. 5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming. 7 In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.

In putting away these things~crucifying them in myself~I need to put away also those things which speak of them, like movies and books and tv. It is not enough that I don't "do" them, but I can't live vicariously in media through them either.
 
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rebel_conservative

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In putting away these things~crucifying them in myself~I need to put away also those things which speak of them, like movies and books and tv. It is not enough that I don't "do" them, but I can't live vicariously in media through them either.

the media certainly doesn't help people's struggle, it doesn't even try to shock anymore, there is no where else they can go.
immorality is just a casual part of the media world, even normal tv shows are infected with the world-view of the writers and directors.

is there are TV show you can watch where people dress modestly? how about one that does not show any premarital sex? or doesn't glorify sin? or doesn't treat sin as natural and acceptable part of the human condition?

very sad to have to give up all of these things :(
 
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Debi1967

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the media certainly doesn't help people's struggle, it doesn't even try to shock anymore, there is no where else they can go.
immorality is just a casual part of the media world, even normal tv shows are infected with the world-view of the writers and directors.

is there are TV show you can watch where people dress modestly? how about one that does not show any premarital sex? or doesn't glorify sin? or doesn't treat sin as natural and acceptable part of the human condition?

very sad to have to give up all of these things :(
I don't know I watch HGTV the Health channel and History channel mostly. I do not watch syndicated television anymore and when I watch the news which even then is not very often I usually watch Fox News, which is usually pretty unbiased, but at the same time I have had to even turn the news off on occasion because it just got into things that were not news worthy in my eyes.
 
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I don't know I watch HGTV the Health channel and History channel mostly. I do not watch syndicated television anymore and when I watch the news which even then is not very often I usually watch Fox News, which is usually pretty unbiased, but at the same time I have had to even turn the news off on occasion because it just got into things that were not news worthy in my eyes.

what is HGTV?

Fox news is great ^_^ :clap: I wish I was still able to get it

yeah, there is a huge amount of celebrity gossip and other fripery classed as 'news' :doh:
 
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