does the bible pradict the reign of the 10 germanic tribes and the vatican and papacy

does the bible pradict the reign of the 10 germanic tribes and the vatican and papacy ????


I would like to say first;
this is not designed to offend catholics or anyone that respects the pope.

it is designed to inform people of what I believe are the facts.


note: this is long because it is informative and I felt I needed to cover the information if people were going to understand.


IS THIS A VALID POINT AND BELIEF???? IS THE VATICAN AND THE POPE IN BIBLE PROPHESYS??

hear is an common protestant bible belief. That I believe is bible scripture and true context and interpretation.

The problem is that it doesn’t look to good for the RCC.


I’d be interested to see who can agree with this, or should I say, “Disagree .”

first and the most convinsing point is ;
Revelations 17 says that the woman on the beast sits on the 7 hills and is mingled with the 10 kings.

well , rome is the only city in the world that has done the things that this prophesy says and also sits on 7 hills.
(the prophecy says mountains but it also calls the hill of the mount of olives a mountain).



The book of Daniel talks of the kings dream and the statue and the interpretation of it given by Daniel was that the head was (Babylon) the chest (media-Persia) the waist (Greece) the legs (Rome) and then it says the toes are ten kings and that the previous kingdom would be mingled with these 10 kings.

Well, the ten kings are the Germanic tribes that came into Europe and over through the Roman Empire and the iron legs mixed with the clay toes are the mixed union of the Vaticans holy roman empire and the European tribes over the last 1700 yrs.

If you read it, danial gives the interpretation and then he goes on to tell of another vision he has;

There was a beast and the beast had 10 horns (kings) and out of the middle of the ten horns there was a little horn (a different kind of king). This little horn proceeds to change laws and dates and the ordinances of god. It would wipe out 3 kings (tribes) from the earth. He makes war with the saints of the most high and wears them out.

The historical context is that the 10 tribes that came into Europe and over through Rome and then afterwards, Rome through the bishop (holy emperor) of Rome mixed with these tribes and then started to change the Sabbath to Sunday and the dating systems were changed and the old was lost. After the nicean council the bishop of Rome and his allies spent 300 yrs hunting and killing Arians (J/W`s beliefs) until 3 tribes were wiped out.

This was the empire to come after the fall of Rome and Paul new that when he spoke of the man of sin to come after Rome.

In 2 Thessalonians ch 2 Paul was writing to the Thessalonians and telling them not to be troubled about Jesus returning in there life time. He did this because in 1 Thessalonians he tells them that Jesus will return and raise the dead.

So he writes to tell them that this wasn’t going to be in there life because first there had to be a falling away from the roman empire, then that man of sin shall be reveled that sits in the temple of god saying that he is god.

Those that believe in him are sent strong delusion so that they believe a lie because they don’t have a love for the truth.
He will remain until Jesus returns and removes him with the words of his mouth.

Jesus warns us of the apostate generations. So does Enoch.

Revelations 17 says that the woman on the beast sits on the 7 hills and is mingled with the 10 kings.

The serpent’s attempt to control earth is 6 000 yrs old and started with Samaria and all the way through to Britain and America today. And the anti Christ to come (who could be the next pope).

Hear is my take on revelations ch 17.

Keep in mind that this was written in the time of the roman empire in the first century.


. Revelation states that the seven heads are seven mountains, also seven kings. The ten horns are leaders that have not received a kingdom but will receive them and rule with the beast and give the power unto the beast . . .
What is the Beast? A nation? A group of nations? Group of world leaders? . . .



Ok, I will have a go.

9
And here is the mind, which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

the city of Rome is the woman on the beast and sitting on the 7 hills.
The beast is this civilization line, "Sumerian, Egypt, Babylon, media-Persia, Greece, Rome, ten Germanic tribes that came into Europe in 300 ad until spreading to America Australia and other parts of the world. The beast is that line of civilization.

The ten kings are the ten horns spoken of by danial as well as the 10 toes of clay that are mingled with the iron.

They are the 10 Germanic tribes that came into Europe and finally overthrow Rome but Rome will mingle with the 10 kings and rule the world riding on the beast.


10
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

In v 10 he is talking about these 7 kings or kingdoms, "Samaria, Egypt, Babylon, media-Persia, Greece, Rome, ten Germanic tribes

5 are fallen and the 6th is (Rome), the next hasn’t come but when he does he must continue a short space (the 10 tribes).

11
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

, This means that Babylon was but is not, and yet still is through the 8th (anti Christ) and anti Christ is of the (7ththe Vatican and 10 tribes or ten toes mixed with clay and iron)). And they are all of the same line.



12
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

These are the ten kings that come in the 7th kingdom (Germanic tribes) but this receiving power hour with the beast, well that is jumping into the 8th (since the 8th is from the 7th) and so the Americans and Europe will unit again with the Vatican for stage 8 of there civilization that will destroy the world through anti Christ who is the pope.
13
These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

They will sell out in the 8th stage fully to the agenda of the dragon called Satan that serpent and he will complete his plan using the pope and the American and European tribes to set him up and give power to the one world order, the agenda of the serpents.



I just wanted to establish the history of the fall of Rome by the 10 kings spoken of by danial and then the little horn that comes out different from the rest and consumes 3 of these kings later.

I believe this was were the statue of danial moves from the iron legs to the 10 toes mixed with the iron and clay.

who would be the little horn????

It was pretty much every were I looked, so I am going to cut a bit from the Encarta encyclopedia (as the info is in all of them) and I will also tell you what my book says, this book I have is called “chronicle of the world”. It is my favorite book next to the bible and it is simply a history of the world book and is totally unbiast. The info can be checked from any encyclopedia.

From the Encarta encyclopedia.
Germanic Peoples, group of tribes united by language and custom that conquered most of western and central Europe in the 5th century AD. By the 2nd century BC the Germanic groups had already occupied northern Germany and southern Scandinavia.


The first clash between the Germanic peoples and the neighboring Romans was in the 2nd century BC, when the Cimbri and Teutons invaded Gaul and were defeated in present-day Provence, France. By this period, however, much of Germany was occupied by such Germanic tribes as the Suevi, Cherusci, and others. When the Romans in turn attempted to conquer the area east of the Rhine River early in the 1st century, they were defeated by the Cherusci chief Arminius (Hermann). By the mid-2nd century AD Germanic pressures on the Roman frontiers intensified. The emperor Marcus Aurelius waged successful warfare against such tribes as the Marcomanni, Quadi, and Iazyges. By this period, German mercenaries were beginning to be used by the Roman armies.

(I WOULD LIKE TO BUTT IN HEAR TO SAY THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF GERMANIC TRIBES ALTHOUGH THE TEN TRIBES THAT I SPEAK OF MAINLY COME FROM THIS TIME PEARIOD TO COME, IN 300 AD AND ON)


During the 3rd century, more migrations caused a crisis within the empire, as Goths, Alamanni, and Franks penetrated German borders. The movement stopped temporarily in the late 3rd century during the reigns of the emperors Diocletian and Constantine the Great, but it resumed under pressure from the non-Germanic Huns, who came out of Central Asia in the 4th century. In the 5th century the Germans occupied the whole Western Roman Empire. Over the next few hundred years, the Germanic tribes adopted Christianity and laid the foundations of medieval Europe.

“The chronicle of the world” tells of a lot of different tribes but of those tribes that came into Europe after 300 ad and were responsible for setting up kingdoms are these tribes:

These are all Germanic tribes.

(Trivia note first ; did you now that the British monarchy is German and 4 generations ago, they were asked to take the throne in Britain and the English monarchy spoke German into the next generation. How many got and believe that fact.)

Anyway;

Tribes, oh yea, ok

These tribes all had a part in establishing Europe and overthrowing Rome. Certain ones more than others.

1. Huns (I think is non-Germanic??)
2. Franks
3. Ostagoths
4. Visigoths
5. Alemanni
6. Slavs
7. Vandals
8. Anglo and Saxons
9. Lombard’s
10. Burundians


There are ten (and there are a few moreuninfluential ones). Now I will give my view of what I have researched and what “the chronicle of the world” says.

First, it wasn’t really one king that over through Rome, they had there own civil wars and a constant flood of migration from the Germanic tribes that were known as the barbarians. There were constant wars over time. A lot of the roman army was far stretched, so they had to rely on mercenaries and these mercs were barbarians sometimes they rebelled and overthrew whole armies and emperors. All this was happening before and after Constantine.

Early in the third century ,


The barbarians would fight for the Romans for land because they were migrating and needed land. These tribes fought against each other for the Romans.

The Huns were allowed to consolidate in the pennonia and were paid to keep the Burundians and franks out of the empire. Then the Hun turned on Rome and Rome united the other barbarians and they were victorious over the Huns in 451. (You no, Attila the Hun.)

The western empire became impossible to hold it’s regions and early in the 5th century the Romans pulled out of Britain and the Saxons overran the island, the vandals crossed the straight of Gibraltar (429) and conquered the coast of Africa and from there they controlled the western Mediterranean and menaced the roman fleet. The Visigoths and the sueves were left to dispute control of Spain.

Behind these thrusts into the heart of the empire, a second group of invaders consolidating there position on the other side of the Rhine; the Burundians, the Alamanni, and the franks.

Between 480 and 507 these tribes dominate and rapidly advanced from their mainland in modern Belgium. Under Clovis they defeated the remaining Gallo roman forces in northern Gaul (486) and pushed alamanni into what is now Switzerland (506) and drove the Visigoths back into Spain (507).


The second branch of the ostrogoths and Goths had been allowed by the roman govt. of the east to settle in the balkens, but under there king Theodoric they had begun to threaten Constantinople it’s self.



With the triumph of the franks in Gaul, king Theodoric owned almost all of Gaul. The vandals controlled Africa, the Visigoths most of Spain.

They all had a pretty good go at bringing Rome down and were all Germanic tribes.

The info is there, I can’t give links because my info doesn’t come from the net. I would be shore that you could put any other these names into an encyclopedia and get an explanation.




So, there’s a lot hear but my info doesn’t come from the net so I challenge you to look in any encyclopedia at any of these tribes and the things I say, it should be there.

the kings of the visigoths , vandals, burgundians and ostrogoths were arian (J/W`s belief)

I will address other issues later on arianisim and the raising of the holy emporor of rome back into power among these kings after seeing if anyone is with me on this stuff.

By saying with me , I don`t mean agree with me , just understand what I am on about.

Thanks

celtic

__________________

although they do believe this stuff , it is a common belief of alot of protestants though.

now I think about it , the preacher that started me on it did have alot of involvment with the 7th day adventists.

I have talked to alot of protestants that also are of the opinion that this is the interpritation though.

why??
is this a solid doctrine of the 7th day adventists??

one thing though rkbo , did you pick up on the 7 hills and the fact that rome and the vatican are the city on the 7 hills??

first and the most convinsing point is ;
Revelations 17 says that the woman on the beast sits on the 7 hills and is mingled with the 10 kings.

well , rome is the only city in the world that has done the things that this prophesy says and also sits on 7 hills.
(the prophecy says mountains but it also calls the hill of the mount of olives a mountain).

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did you pick up on this bit???

these are prophetic doctrines that I heard and from there I confirmed them through history .

I know the bible but I know history better so I have confirmed all of this through history.

yea , sorry , it is way to long .

let me shorten the issues. (unless there is something that you would prefer to address.)


first and the most convinsing point is ;
Revelations 17 says that the woman on the beast sits on the 7 hills and is mingled with the 10 kings.

well , rome is the only city in the world that has done the things that this prophesy says and also sits on 7 hills.
(the prophecy says mountains but it also calls the hill of the mount of olives a mountain).


so , if we start from hear , then I am easaly convinced of the posability of it being anything but the obvious.

how could it be anything else besides "ROME"????

Hi yauming,
Sorry, not 4 generations ago, I meant 400 hundred yrs ago.





"George I and II (of Great Britain)

George I (of Great Britain and Ireland) (1660-1727), king of Great Britain (1714-1727) and elector of Hannover (1698-1727), first of the Hannoverian line of British rulers.

George was born in Osnabrück, Hannover (now in Germany), the son of Ernest Augustus, elector of Hannover, and Sophia, granddaughter of King James I of England. George succeeded Queen Anne by the terms of the Act of Settlement. Thoroughly German in tastes and habits, he never learned the English language, and he made periodic lengthy visits to Hannover, which always remained his primary concern, despite his dutiful efforts to attend to his new kingdom's needs. He remained, however, unpopular in Britain, due in part to his private life. He divorced his wife in 1694 and kept her imprisoned in Hannover.


THUNDER,
Although I find the bible unique, both for history and faith, the book I am using, called, "the chronical of the world" is a huge book put together by a multitude of different historians.

It isn’t my soul history books but it is the best one I have. I haven’t found fault in it as yet according to any common encyclopaedia.

I always check my history from about 3 different encyclopaedias. I.e. brittanica, encart, and the catholic encyclopedia.

There hasn’t been fault yet, that’s why it’s my favourite book (besides the bible).

The bible talks about the four empires, not a fifth one. You are referring to the fall of the Roman Empire. The Germans tried to be a world empire, but failed. That fourth empire is the one that will be revived. The Holy Roman Empire or (so called Holy).

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I’m not shore I am with you hear THUNDER???

Are you talking about the 4 kingdoms in denials prophecies concerning nebbie?

If so, I count 5.

1. Head of gold = Babylon

2. breast = Media-Persia

3. waiste = Greece

4. legs = Rome

5. The 10 toes of clay and the iron = Germanic tribes that overthrough rome and then the vatican (little horn) raises up among them consuming 3 of them.

So, to me, I see the 10 toes and the clay mingling with the iron, I see the barbarian Germanic tribes that eventually over through Rome and then the holy roman empire rose back to a religious power (the iron of Rome) and mingled with the European tribes (toes of clay) to set a course in history over the next 1500 yrs to fulfil this and many other predictions in bible prophesy.

Are we talking about the same prophecy??? Or did I miss understand you???

Oh, as for the Germans in world war 1, that was just a point in time that the world thought the antichrist was happening before there eyes.

This isn`t what I ment by the Germanic tribes of history (300 ad) history as they are two different subjects, the Germans through Hitler looked like bible fulfilment but it didn’t end the same way. But as for the Germanic tribes, well there I’m talking about 1700 yrs ago. They caused Rome to fall away just like the apostle Paul said and then the next empire could take place that was the 5th empire of denial.

There was 5 empires in denial but there was a 6th, the mountain that will be formed when the stone that wasn’t cut out by mans hand will smite the statue and cause a mountain and this mountain in the earth will be called the kingdom of our lord.


Can anyone address this????



First and the most convincing point is;
Revelations 17 says that the woman on the beast sits on the 7 hills and is mingled with the 10 kings.

Well, Rome is the only city in the world that has done the things that this prophecy says and also sits on 7 hills.
(The prophecy says mountains but it also calls the hill of the Mount of Olives a mountain).


I have just never had someone that will address this question over about 3 forums now and I believe it opens the understanding of prophesy for this last 2000 yrs of history.

I hear people say , maybe it is Jerusalem or Babylon but I never hear anyone say,"yea , it is obviously rome".

why is that?? because that is were the vatican sits???

didn`t jesus say ,"even the very elect will be decieved".

wasn`t he talking about the apostate era and the antichrist reign.

Look at what Paul says to the Thessalonians, they were under the impression from his last letter that Jesus would return in there life time but Paul insures them that it is not so.

He tells them that denials prophesy needed to be fulfilled by saying to them that Christ wouldn’t return until there was a great falling away (of the roman empire) and then that man of sin will sit in the temple of god saying he is god (generations of infallibility).

He says;

6
And now ye know what withhold that he might be revealed in his time.(his time would come after rome)
7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now Letteth will let, until he is taken out of the way.



What withholds is the Roman Empire until it is removed and the antichrist or apostate age will begin.


I will paste the chapter, it is worth it.

Note; is there or has there been anyone on earth that could fit this prophesy besides the pope.

People are looking for the antichrist but I believe the system that the antichrist will arrive on has been with us since the fall of rome and will come from the roman Vatican.

Also note; if I am right and the falling away is the roman empire then the vatican is defiantly the one that came after rome and precisely fits all of the prophesies concerning her and is all evident according to history.

I have long believed that the answers to the future are in the past and history is the future until Jesus overcomes his enemies.

This man of sin will remain from the time of Romes fall to the time of Jesus returning. I can see no other interpretation that is as precise as this one.

So hear is that chapter in Thessalonians 2 chi 2.



1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


FROM HEAR ON , PAUL TALKS AS THOUGH THERE WAS TWO GOSPELS AND WE ARE CALLED TO HIS GOSPEL BECAUSE OF THIS APOSTATE THAT WILL CAUSE THOSE WITHOUT A LOVE FOR THE TRUTH TO FOLLOW THE FALSE GOSPEL OF THE VATICAN.



14
Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
17
Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.



I don’t mean to go on about the Vatican and wouldn’t want to offend anyone, especially by telling a catholic that there leader is an anti Christ.

But these are what I believe are the facts and I do have a love for the truth and I can’t escape the overwhelming evidence that I have no other choice than to believe.

If others are shore I am wrong, please explain, because these doctrines of mine are bound to get me into trouble, as Jesus got himself into trouble with his own religious leaders by telling them that they were of the devil.

I honestly don’t like to offend people, so do I keep quiet about what I believe is the solid truth???? Did Jesus keep quiet so he could make friends????

I hope my beliefs don’t offend to many.


Thanks

Celtic.

Hi THUNDER,
I think you may have miss understood a few things that I said.

First, I don’t believe that Germany has anything to do with bible prophesy at all.

What I was saying was that the world would have thought that Hitler was the anti Christ because he started to fit all the requirements of the antichrist except him being a Jew.)
So, I was hypothetically stating that there were other times in history that the world thought the anti Christ had appeared but in actual fact they were wrong.

So, don’t see Germany in the bible. I think you think I am talking about 1940 but I am talking about the fall of the Roman Empire in 400 ad. is that right???



The Germanic tribes are a different story, the Germanic tribes were the barbarian tribes that flooded into Europe and finally over through Rome and the ten kings that come out of the beast are from these tribes.

Eg. These tribes all had a part in establishing Europe and overthrowing Rome. Certain ones more than others.

1. Huns (I think is non-Germanic??)
2. Franks
3. Ostagoths
4. Visigoths
5. Alemanni
6. Slavs
7. Vandals
8. Anglo and Saxons
9. Lombard’s
10. Burundians


These tribes are now Briton and France and Spain and Germany and other European states in Europe that have controlled the world for the last 1500 yrs with the pope from rome mingled with them.

This is fact and history THUNDER and can be proved from any history book you choose.

Now, you say that there was only 4 beasts in danials prophesy and you are right on that in the sence that there was 4 beasts mentioned but if you look at the 4th beast, it is broken up into 10 toes and the iron legs mixed with the clay toes to separate this kingdom of iron;

This indicates a new era and stage of the forth beast of rome, it was saying that the 4th beast will be fractured and split up and to enter a new stage were it makes pretty clear in many other prophesies, especially pauls prediction in 2 Thessalonians that says that after the falling away that there would be a son of perdition running things until jesus returned, he said this so people didn`t think jesus was returning in there life.

The ten horns on its head are referring to the fourth beast still, not Germany. The little horn that comes up will be another king, not a Pope. I really can't see this theory of the ten Germanic tribes having any clout. Infect, I've never even heard of this before. Where did it come from?? I can see a false religious system, and with a false prophet, but not a Pope taking over the entire world. That's not even possible in my view.

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Ok, you haven’t heard of it maybe because you have miss understood me I think.

Check these links out;

More about the 10 horns. These will keep you busy:

http://www.tagnet.org/cyberspace/Le...4/fut2-064.html


http://www.amazingdiscoveries.org/a...evealed-p2.html


http://www.christianheritage.com/June2001.htm

http://www.tagnet.org/glenburnie/daniel7.html

http://www.amazingfacts.org/catalog/rr/bk-bdw.html

http://www.tagnet.org/anewyou/leo/Leo3.html

as you can see , it is a common belief my links didn`t work. that was the first time I have ever tryed to put a link on , they don`t work but if you paste them into search they will come up.

Now, I agree, offcourse this isn’t referring to Germany in the 20th century and you are right about the fact that we are still under the 4th beasts rule, my idea of the 5th empire is because we have been under this 10 tribes and the little horns kingdoms for the last 1500 yrs although you are right, this 5th empire is still the 4th, rome. Let me explain were I am coming from hear.

\
Daniel 7: 19-20 - Then I wanted to know the true meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with it's iron teeth and bronze claws- the beast crushed and devoured it's victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. I also wanted to know about the ten horns on it's head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell- the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully.



What I am about to share is historical fact and is simple to prove.


The first half of this verse is about the great and terrible empire of Rome.

“Then I wanted to know the true meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws- the beast crushed and devoured it's victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left.”


This second half of the prophesy comes about at the fall of rome and the little horn in my opinion is defiantly the pope and can be no other as no other fits it perfectly like he does, let me explain;


First note how this verse is completed half way through it and then it appears to start what should have been another verse (remembering that there was no verses originally)

He says, I ALSO WANTED TO KNOW. (This is the next empirical stage to the 4th beast. (Remembering also that Rome has had two stages to it, Jesus time and the time of the Vatican in the Dark Age, both under roman rule)


I also wanted to know about the ten horns on it's head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell- the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully.


Ok, the history is that there were 10 different Germanic or barbarian tribes that came into Europe after 300 ad and these 10 tribes (remember that there was earlier tribes before 300 ad but they failed and aren’t in this prophesy as it starts at romes demise)

So, these 10 tribes eventually over through rome and they took the western empire of rome off her and then soon after the nicean council when the roman empower Constantine became a Christian that caused Christianity to become the state religion of the roman empire.

So, after romes fall over a couple of hundred yrs the ten horns (kings) took her empire until there came a little horn among them which came from rome as the bishop or pope of the Christian church.Or should I say ,”the holy roman emporor” was the popes title for a while. She gained a large part of the roman empire back as the 10 tribes were also Christian and so they gave her there power and so the little horn gained power by having the authority to speak great boastful things like being gods representative on earth and much worse.

So, as daneal says, this little horn proceeded to change times, laws and dates.

The 3 other kings that were consumed when the little horn gained her power back well let me explain.

There were 4 of these 10 tribes that believed in the Arian belief of the godhead (J/Ws beliefs); there was a council set to decide between the true doctrines of Jesus divinity at the nicean council.

Now, after the council, all Arians were excommunicated after a few years of not submitting to the trinity that was also birthed at the council.

After the council, the roman bishop gained all the power of the church and there was a great persecution against araneism.

This went on for 3oo yrs and after 300 yrs there was 3 whole tribes that had literally been wiped out of the earth because of mass persecution from the vatican until 3 tribes were lost forever.

That is history not just bible THUNDER.

So again the prophecy that says, she makes war against the saints of the most high and wears them out. (I am not saying that I agree with J/W`s beliefs by believing this history, that’s another story).


There is no doubt about my history THUNDER, it’s just a matter of unravelling these complicated biblical prophesies into context with history.

I became a Christian because of my obsesion with history and history proves that Jesus was the messiah but it also proves that the pope is the antichrist.

The bible has convinced me of its authenticity because both its history and its predictions are accurate.

If we can work them out

So in finishing my opinion, I agree that the 4th beast of Rome is the same beast that the ten horns are on but it is a different part of that beasts reign.

Also, the Germans of the 20th century are not in the bible as you said, I was talking about the European tribes that were called the Germanic tribes in 400 ad..

Thanks

Celtic

I hope you understand.

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Yauming,
I think that maybe you misunderstand.

This is a prophesy forum and therefore these issues are more relevant hear than anywhere else.

To put these issues to Roman Catholics would be nothing but an offensive move. I have no desire or intention of offending them in there own forum.

These issues that I am talking about are souly based on education, history and bible prophecy, why don’t you read it before calling it something that it is not.

There isn’t one issue that I have spoken of that has anything at all to do with asking Catholics questions about there faith, I know there faith and what they believe, my interests are bible prophesy so I will continue to deal with the catholic church hear on this forum because it is what I believe is bible prophesy of the first degree.

I don’t think it is wise to ignore the facts just because they don’t look nice and may offend someone so I will do my best to do what I am doing and that is to only address the issues of prophesy and history and steer clear of stupid nit picking that goes on in the catholic question forum.

I am interested in talking to people that are learned in these things (as thunder is) so why would I take such learned stuff to a nit picky site that does nothing but argue over folly.

Yauming, you will never see me in that room because there is nothing there for me.

I will continue to speak what I believe in this forum and as long as I stick to the rules, my word will be heard.


Yauming, if you take the time to read my stuff, you will see that it isn’t based in attacking Catholics or church doctrines but simply trying to address the bible prophesies that are so obviously the pope and the Vatican.

This isn’t new; Christians have been saying this for 1000 yrs.

The Roman vatican and the reign of the pope is all through bible prophecy and that is the issues on this forum, is it not????

I am not accusing anyone but claiming that the bible prophecys do accuse the vatican and the pope.

if you check out the links then you will see that what I am saying is believed by a large part of the church.

With the right to speak

Celtic crusader.

Ps. The statements I made concerning being to offencive were to THUNDER on an educated level, not to the whole room. Not to those that hadn’t even read the thread.

ps. yauming , how long have you been moderator???
shorly the pope and vatican have been addressed hear before I came along, I am no island , there are many who see the same things as me.

hmmm, ok , thanks , I won`t make that mistake again

It is very dangerous to put words in our Lord's mouth.

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yea , I guess so, the good thing is that there is always someone that can correct the situation

thanks

next time I quote "the bible" I will be shore to check.


you are right , it is these type of people that will be decieved by false prophets and christs.

as paul says ,ohh , wait , maybe I should just paste it.

2 Thessalonians 2


9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


so , thanks for the correction

celtic

Cool yauming , that sounds good.

I put it hear because I wanted to see what those who now a lot about prophesy would say about it.

I am interested in how many others see this from a biblical prophesy point of view.


<<<<<The Bible was never meant to be a crystal ball, is what I think about it>>>>>>


how come it is filled with prophesy from start to finish then???

How come all the prophets , jesus and the apostles told the future and also wrote in down in the bible????

What is the bible supposed to be used for then Tesseract????

2 Timothy 3
15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

so , wouldn`t bible prophesy be apart of all this sinse god has made a point of putting a pradiction on every second page or so of the holy bible.

celtic.


ps. just for the record;
most of the stuff that I wrote was about things that happened in the past and not the future , so this crystle ball statment would be irrelivent to my thread hear any way , sinse I havn`t touched on the future in it except to say that the next antichrist would also be a pope again.

Hi THUNDER,
There are a couple of things that you have said that I would like to address

I have a problem with your ten toes. It seems that your ten toes sort of evolved gradually, and then somehow overthrew the Roman Empire.

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I think that because you don’t have a good understanding on the history of the fall of Rome and the ten kings that took it down and the pope that became ruler of all these kings soon after that , you have still misunderstood a few things that I have said.


These are historical fact.


First;

The book of Daniel shows that the four beasts followed each other in sequence. These four were the physical parts of the body in Daniels dream. But it shows that the ten horns on his head, which are ten kingdoms that rule simultaneously, and the little horn appears among the ten, and conquers three of the ten, and eventually dominates the entire empire. They are mixed with iron and clay, meaning that they are partly weak and partly strong.

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Ok, first, yes the four beasts follow each other simultaneously as you say but when you get to the 10 horns and the little horn, well, there not simultaneous but are all ruling together at once.

This has to be so or how would the little horn come up from among the other ten if they were all ruling one after another. No, they are all ruling together, or how would the little horn come up "AMONG THEM" and consume 3 of them.

If Christians new there history well then they wouldn’t think that every thing the bible says is in the future still.

As I have said, concerning the 10 horns and the little horn, it is history and has factually played out perfectly (according to bible prophesy) from about 350 ad to 500 ad. 150 yrs isn’t that long for one empire to fall and another one to rise. As you said, "not as strong as Rome was" but it is still Rome, the beast and the clay and iron mingles (different ruling kings) did make this empire both weak and without the ability to rule with a soul ruler ever again.

I wonder how people believe that the anti Christ will build a one world empire when denial shows,"there wont be another world ruler after Rome but it will remain fragmented until the end when the stone smites the statue.

Secondly;

I believe these ten will come from the European Union. I think you are really reaching, to say that they are ten Germanic tribes that evolve over 2000 years. Since when did the Pope become so powerful?? He doesn't even have a way to make war. He was only given the power that the emperor gave him. The Pope was never a king, but the anti-Christ will come as the false messiah, or king, and the whole world will give him power and believe his lie.

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.”


If you believe that they are the European union, then we are in agreement in more than you understand hear.

Learn about the history I speak of first THUNDER before being so shore I am wrong. It is any were you wish to look in any history book you like. You only need to look.

Try looking into the past instead of the future all the time, you will get more answers and it will make so much else clearer were the future stuff is concerned.


<<<To say that they are ten Germanic tribes that evolves over 2000 years. Since when did the Pope become so powerful?? >>>>

Ok, that’s easy, look in any history book and you will see I am right hearing.

The 10 Germanic tribes that over through Rome are the European nations today. They have been there ever sinse the fall of Rome and they are the ones that have ruled the world for the last 1700 yrs. Now the pope did rise back up from among them and consumed three of these nations that believed in the Arian godhead. It is all there, it is simple history.

The pope rose through the Dark Age among the European kings (if you like that word better) and ended up with the power over all of the kings as they gave their power to him.

They called him the holy roman emperor for hundreds of yrs.

It was the pope that called for the start of the crusades and he demanded that all the European tribes go to war for him. He did this many times so it is wrong to say that the pope has never made war, he has started many wars in the name of god. He has even promised redemption for those that would take up arms for him and fight.

(check out the first crusade in 1090 or there abouts. the pope calls all christians to war all across Europe)

THUNDER, it appears that you aren’t awear of the times I talk of but just as the other beasts rose and fell and they stood for some up to 800 yrs and so why is it strange that the 10 European tribes took power about 4 to 5 hundred yrs AD and then the pope rose among them around the same time and they all ruled the world together until we have modern day were these 10 tribes are now spread to America, Australia, Canada and new Zealand and many others.

So according to history, and my history "IS " accurate, this is how it all happened and the bible clearly tells of it.

Try doing a study on this stuff and you will see that I am not only 100 % accurate with my history but also very accurate with what the bible has to say about this world dominating power that will rule the world twice as long as rome until jesus removes it with the power of his coming.

???? Why does every one think everything is for the future???

We live in an age were we have lost history and we don’t think it important to teach our children but I say that history is the original education of man and without a scenes of history, we know nothing.

Unless you are a prophet, you wont get prophecy unless you know history.

That is my experience.

Celtic.