camaro540 said:
Revelations 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent , called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
As I said, that does NOT state that the serpent in the garden of Eden was satan. The book of Genesis is very clear in it's description of what God did to the "serpent" for eternity. We have snakes, which is our idea of the "serpent" thanks to the description OF Genesis. Revelation was written 2000+ years after. The 5 books of the Torah, supposedly were written by Moses himself. We know from Exodus that God and Moses had a very personal relationship, to the point where Moses even chastises God about destroying all of those brought from Egypt.
If Moses WAS the author of even just the book of Genesis, then the creation story came straight from God, in an audible voice. The Revelation of whichever John wrote it, was from a dream state, just as Jeremiah's, Daniel, Elisha, The Shepard of Hermes, the Apocolypse of Peter, et al.
So either our translation is wrong, or God punished one of his beloved creatures that HE created to get back at a disobedient Angel. If that is the God we are to worship, I would rather not, and take whatever He gives me.
The point is, that God is NOT that petty. He may have cast some angels from heaven, but we were taught invented reasons for it.
We are taught that nothing that is evil can enter Heaven, yet are also told satan is pure evil. We are also told that satan is where ALL evil starts, yet He was in heaven when these evil thoughts entered his, and how many other angels, thoughts.
This being said, and showing that 1: Evil can not be in heaven, or 2: Evil can exist in heaven since Lucifer was in heaven as well as the other 'fallen angels', or 3: We were lied to about the existence of satan and his real power. After extensive study of the bible, Satan actually acts more like the "prosecuting attorney" while Jesus is the attorney for the defendent. Jesus will stand up before God for all those who stood up for Him in life. That is in the bible. The one against us is called "The accuser", which would be satan.
If you remember in Job, God did NOT treat satan with hate or anger, but with pride in Job. If God hates the evil that is satan, why would he treat him so nicely? And by implication, (since in both chapter 1 and 2 of Job, it says that the sons of God went to see God, and satan came also), the implication is that satan is a son of God. So this leaves us with two basic conclusions. 1: God created satan, so God created evil, or 2: Satan is NOT the purely evil being we were taught, but the truth is we needed a scapegoat to place our transgressions on, and used the one being that was cast from heaven, and evil existed, not as an entity, but as an action that we gave a name to, and tried to manifest into a physical being.
Your next section doesn't address my statement at all. I said the bible never states God creates the Angels, but they were present not long after the creation at the time of the eating of the fruit of the tree. All the verses you used doesn't address this at all, but some other point that isn't clear from your answer.
Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition ; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
If you read the entire book, you will see he was talking about his apostles/disciples. The son of perdition is Judas, the betrayer portrayed in the bible. This has nothing to do with what we were talking about.
Mat 4:24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils , and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
Again this has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand. You were stating no one is going to "hell" other than satan and the fallen angels. What does THIS verse have to do with no one of human origin going to "hell"?