Lack of finances=lack of faith?

Originally posted by Dewjunkie
So, I suppose that Paul, the prolific writer of scripture, who has been quoted many times throughout this thread had no faith because he had an eye affliction. Even worse, he succumbed to the "enemy" of death, so his faith must not have been very strong.

My 3 year old daughter loved God. She knew He created everything for her. John, you're saying that she was conquered by evil because she died in a car accident? That is moronic. She is with God now, playing non-stop, waiting to see the rest of her family when we die and are reunited in Heaven. I'm not sure where you get this idea that you aren't going to die, but maybe you should reread the ashes to ashes scripture.

No one in my wife's family is Christian. But they are opening up and asking questions because of the spirit and faith my wife has shown throughout this ordeal. If 20 people get saved because my wife is paralyzed, then God has been glorified.

Louis, I agree with you. God can work for His good through EVERYTHING.

I don't feel that we need to ask for forgiveness evry time we get a cold.

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Dewjunkie,

I believe you have misunderstood some of the things that have been said.   Since several of us believe that God did not cause the accident that killed your daughter, it would be the enemy (evil) that killed her. 

As far as never dying, I believe the statement was made according to the fact that Jesus is coming soon, as in our lifetime.  If we are still alive when He returns, then we will never die.

And again I'd like to point out that "people" bring glory to God, not their sickness or their healthyness.  If someone has to be sick in order to bring glory to God, then something has been missed somewhere along the line.

Quaffer, I understand exactly what is being said, I just don't agree.

I KNOW God did not CAUSE the accident. I know He ALLOWED it to happen. Not because I or my wife lack faith, but because there is a purpose in it. I trust fully that He knows why it happened, and even if I don't find out until I get to Heaven, I will trust that He knows. I don't give the devil credit for anything, and certainly not this. My daughter conquered evil, she is in Heaven.

If you developed Cancer next month, and suffered for 6 months before passing away despite prayer and fasting and faithful tithing, would that mean you had lost your faith? Would it mean God ignored your prayers? Or would it simply mean that God decided that what was best for you was to be in Heaven with him, rather than suffer on earth with Cancer? That your human physical body had failed and died, as human bodies do?

Yes, people bring glory to God, through their situations. It is easy to be excited and praise God when things are going smoothly. It's how one reacts through trials that show true strength in their faith. What is basically being said here is that God's will can be altered depending on how much faith someone as when they pray. I refuse to believe that is true.

Originally posted by didaskalos
Though I voted no to your question, I have to also say that a person can have $0 but can have 100% of their needs met and a bunch of wants and desires met also.  I do not have a large bank account, but that is because I own everything I have. When needs pop up, so does the supply. I know myself and my wife well enough that if we did come into a pile of money it would not last long. Either a need would pop up requiring the funds or we would end up giving it to someone who needed it worse than we do. So I have learned that when money appears, start looking for an explanation as to why. Shortly the need always appears.

Technically, I am not "rich" by the world's definition... but I do have all needs met and have no worries about it.... so I suppose I am "rich".

Susan, I have noticed that several of the threads you have started have been in regards to the "word-faith" movement. Do you have someone pressing you on these issues i.e. church members, friends, family etc..?

My spirit tells me their are motives other than curiosity. Not negative motives mind you... just "other" motives.

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1st off I'ld like to say God bless u all wheather it is money or not just be blessed. 2nd I am worst off than broke and I know few people that have as much faith as I do.

Most people whrn they need something they just go to the store and buy it,not me when I or any of my 4 children need or even want something we pray 4 it and then we thank God 4 it cause he is a good God. Aand then we either get extra money or some1 comes and brings it to us.

Now I know alot of Christian folks but I know few that actually live on their faith. They believe for different things but fes I know that believe 4 everything.

The house I live in I prayed 4 it took me 6 yesrs to move into it. When I met the landlord he tole me he was a christian and 1 day in 1996 the Lord gave him a plan 4 this place. He said he had a lot of trouble getting it finished but he said God told him to billa nice place 4 his children because they need a home.

The whole time I was prayign 4 this house I kept telling people i was moving into this new house 4 bedroom central air 1.5 baths minumin rent less than $200 a month. Around the 3 year they started telling me to give it up I was not going to get that 4 that amount of money. But all I know is that when God tell me something that is what it is. He said what do I want and I told him and he said "u got it". I know there was a time that I too started to doubt cause it seemed like it was taking forever.

But I had a good boss, by that time and she let me listen to family radio and preaching all day so that helped to over come all the doubting people that were surrounding me.

Then just as I felt I could not wait any longer, they phone me. Well needless to said that is where I am now and I will be here until I get my master degree in business management.

No I don't have any money, most of the time I don't even want to look at my bank account cause there is often a negative balance. But i have to tell u when they send me shot off notices I get my children together and tell them hey we need some money for what ever bill it is and I swear either the money appears in the bank or the bill comes paid.

Now I don't know how much faith u have but I can tell u I am now praying 4 another computer. I paid 4 my 1st 1 but I don't make the money I used to make so I need a really cheap 1. I started praying when school started and u know what by the 3 rd week I had met some1 that knows some1 that is in a program that gives computer to families with children ages 10 -12. Guess what I have 2.

I would match my faith with any1s. I had divine healing 3 times in my life and expect if I should ever need it again I will have no difficulty getting it. And keeping it. Cause when that lying devil comes trying to put symptoms of sickness on me I start telling him he a liar God heals all my diseases, and by his stripes I'm heal and then I start giving God the glory.

Now if ur question had been do u think poor christian disobey God more than rich christians I would have to say yes. But u said faith so the answer is no, being poor is not an automatic sign of lack of faith.

Long life and blessings to u all.

 

Originally posted by Dewjunkie
I KNOW God did not CAUSE the accident. I know He ALLOWED it to happen. Not because I or my wife lack faith, but because there is a purpose in it. I trust fully that He knows why it happened, and even if I don't find out until I get to Heaven, I will trust that He knows. I don't give the devil credit for anything, and certainly not this. My daughter conquered evil, she is in Heaven.

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Why are you asking us? You have all the answers you need to your questions. Are you looking for some sort of confirmation or something? Can't you just trust and believe God. Abraham did and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Originally posted by Dewjunkie
I trust fully that He knows why it happened, and even if I don't find out until I get to Heaven, I will trust that He knows.

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You see, as long as your trusting and believeing God, that is what is important. Even if I were to know, it would be better not to tell you, because when your ready, God will show you what you need to know. He knows what is best for us, and He will work it all out for us in His time.

"Out of respect for God, are you kidding. God wants to love us not intimidate us."

and you forget, we are to regard him as God as a son respects his father, or should.

"How many more will be saved when God heals her?"

maybe less then would be saved from her showing of her amazing faith despite the circumstances. Remember what he told to the people who wanted just miricles?

That''s exactly what they are saying Dewjunkie. Anyone that dies from something other then old age was conqured by evil or had a lack of faith, that is why the bible speaks out against this teaching, because it is wrong.

John, I wasn't asking you anything. I have been debating against the ideal that sickness and death can't happen to people who have faith and ask for healing.

I know in my heart everything I need to know. Everything here has been for the sake of debate. That was the purpose of the forum, correct?

Originally posted by Dorothyne
Most people whrn they need something they just go to the store and buy it,not me when I or any of my 4 children need or even want something we pray 4 it and then we thank God 4 it cause he is a good God. Aand then we either get extra money or some1 comes and brings it to us.

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I give you all of my blessing, because you have blessed me through your great faith.  You are like the widow who gave all that she had.  You have abandond everything in order to believe God.  Great is your faith and greater will be your reward.  You have found favor in the eyes of God and He has not forgotten you.  He will be your reward, He says that He will pour Himself out on you and your children.  Many will look and say, they are truely blessed of God, because He has made Himself real to them.  They trusted Him and He has not failed.  Blessed are you Dorothyne for you have found favor in His sight.

 

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Out of respect for God, are you kidding. God wants to love us not intimidate us."

and you forget, we are to regard him as God as a son respects his father, or should.

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This is the fear of the Lord:

That I call Him Abba all of my days, that I will always run into His arms, that I will hold back nothing from Him, I will tell Him everything and will never hide, that I will seek to make Him proud, that I will turn to Him in every situation, that I will lean on Him and not my self, that I will draw others to Him, that I will let nothing come between us, that I will not come between us, that I will boast of Him always, and my heart will always remain open to Him, that I will trust in Him, that I will remain in Him, that I will obey Him by my choice, and that I will glorify His Son.

"Then why does sdcripture tell us to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling? "

"This is the fear of the Lord:"

Good, and it has nothing to do with being scared, good job

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Then why does sdcripture tell us to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling? "

Out of respect for God? HUH? yes you should in the fact that it is a gracious gift that we don't deserve..no in the fact that we are scared to screw up.

Good, and it has nothing to do with being scared, good job

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Louis you are chasing your own tail.  I should have not even bothered because the conclusion of the arguement that you have put up make no sence.  I don't even know how to respond because it apears that you argue in riddles only for the sake of arguing.  Now I truely understand Ecc.

"Now I truely understand Ecc."

LOL, I'm just quoting you snup. You're the one that totally changed your view in mid swing. I just posted your statements to show that. Scared of God, scared to screw up yes, not scared of God....please read the context snup before posting. Its like doing your homework before you come to class...if you're not prepared of course you won't understand.

Originally posted by Dewjunkie
Quaffer, I understand exactly what is being said, I just don't agree.

I KNOW God did not CAUSE the accident. I know He ALLOWED it to happen. Not because I or my wife lack faith, but because there is a purpose in it. I trust fully that He knows why it happened, and even if I don't find out until I get to Heaven, I will trust that He knows. I don't give the devil credit for anything, and certainly not this. My daughter conquered evil, she is in Heaven.

If you developed Cancer next month, and suffered for 6 months before passing away despite prayer and fasting and faithful tithing, would that mean you had lost your faith? Would it mean God ignored your prayers? Or would it simply mean that God decided that what was best for you was to be in Heaven with him, rather than suffer on earth with Cancer? That your human physical body had failed and died, as human bodies do?

Yes, people bring glory to God, through their situations. It is easy to be excited and praise God when things are going smoothly. It's how one reacts through trials that show true strength in their faith. What is basically being said here is that God's will can be altered depending on how much faith someone as when they pray. I refuse to believe that is true.

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Dewjunkie,

I did not mean to be offensive. I remember quite well the reactions I too had when I first started hearing the "faith" statements. The very idea that there was possibly something I was or was not doing was unsettling to say the least.

I don't give the devil credit for anything either. But I do blame him for a lot. What do you think he does? The Bible refers to him as a liar and a thief. It also refers to him as being like a roaring lion, going about seeking someone to destroy. Jesus told Peter that Satan had requested to sift him as wheat. Surely, you don't believe that Satan and the devils do not have any impact or input into your life?

And if you believe they do then you must understand under what conditions they are allowed to have permission and access to you and your belongings.

It's really sad that we cannot point out errors in all our lives, that the Word clearly teaches, without being attacked by our fellow believers. And people taking offense and saying that we are causing them and others to feel bad about themselves.

Do you hit your doctor when he comes in and tells you he has something that will stop the headaches? Do you tell him that God wants you to have that headache? That's it's for a higher purpose?

I don't know why the enemy was allowed to touch your family. Yes your daughter is in heaven with Jesus, but I don't believe that God had some high purpose that He could not have accomplished some other way.

I'm very sorry for your loss and can only imagine the pain and loss that you feel. The enemy is the one who stole from you though. . .not God

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Now I truely understand Ecc."

LOL, I'm just quoting you snup. You're the one that totally changed your view in mid swing. I just posted your statements to show that. Scared of God, scared to screw up yes, not scared of God....please read the context snup before posting. Its like doing your homework before you come to class...if you're not prepared of course you won't understand.

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Please show me how I changed my view, because right now I believe that you just don't understand from what platform I am speaking.

I am surpised that 93% are saying money has no bearing on one Christianity?

Ask yourself why did Jesus say
Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of God
Woe to you that are rich, for you have received your consolation
It is easier for a camel to enter through the eyes of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
His kingdom is not of this world.
The ruler of this world is satan.
You must humble yourself like a child to enter the kingdom of God.
etc.

Originally posted by spiritualscientist
I am surpised that 93% are saying money has no bearing on one Christianity?

Ask yourself why did Jesus say
Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of God
Woe to you that are rich, for you have received your consolation
It is easier for a camel to enter through the eyes of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
His kingdom is not of this world.
The ruler of this world is satan.
You must humble yourself like a child to enter the kingdom of God.
etc.

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Reread the question it is not is it easy 4 a poor person, nor is it is it hard 4 a rich person. the question is "Is not having money or having little money a sign of weak faith or no faith?"

The answer is no it is not.

Originally posted by Dorothyne
Reread the question it is not is it easy 4 a poor person, nor is it is it hard 4 a rich person. the question is "Is not having money or having little money a sign of weak faith or no faith?"

The answer is no it is not.

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And  my answer is money has bearing on who you are as a Christian. You have to try to look into detail of the meaning of what Jesus preached. Christians like to fool themselves they are in control of their wealth. This is only a consolation for their weakness.

A pure follower of Christ has no business with money, since he/she is only concerned with the spiritual.

Ask also yourself why did Jesus say you cannot serve both God and Money? Why did he say the first shall be last and the last first?

Originally posted by spiritualscientist
And  my answer is money has bearing on who you are as a Christian. You have to try to look into detail of the meaning of what Jesus preached. Christians like to fool themselves they are in control of their wealth. This is only a consolation for their weakness.

A pure follower of Christ has no business with money, since he/she is only concerned with the spiritual.

Ask also yourself why did Jesus say you cannot serve both God and Money? Why did he say the first shall be last and the last first?

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The key word in your post is "serve". We cannot serve both God and money. Serving money is the same as idolatry.

A pure follower of Christ is not only concerned with the spiritual either. This is a ridiculous supposition and an even more ridiculous statement. In the Bible the book of James, chapter 2, vv 15 and 16 says "Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?"

How do you propose we would accomplish this exhortation if we are concerned strictly with the spiritual? According to the Bible Jesus fed the 5,000 and the 4,000. He didn't tell them to go away and be blessed. He met their physical needs. Why did Jesus heal people of their illnesses if we are to be only concerned for the spiritual? There are hundreds of other examples of God being concerned about our physical needs and that they be met. You only need to read the Bible to find them out!

"A pure follower of Christ has no business with money, since he/she is only concerned with the spiritual."

can you channel all your money to me then? thanks.

btw: if your statement is true what about Abraham, Boaz, Solomon, Job, David etc? or the fact that prosperity is part of the atoning work of Christ?

Originally posted by Andrew

btw: if your statement is true what about Abraham, Boaz, Solomon, Job, David etc? or the fact that prosperity is part of the atoning work of Christ? [/B]

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Those were not Christians since they are in the old Testament. There is a difference between Judaism and Christianity. The problem with most "Christians" is that they are biblians who only follow the verses they like (the verses that soothe their weakness). They ignore almost everything in the Gospels.

A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ.

 

Originally posted by spiritualscientist


A pure follower of Christ has no business with money, since he/she is only concerned with the spiritual. 

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i guess you are wearing spiritual clothes, spiritual shoes, eating spirit burgers and typing this on a spirit computer...