EnemyPartyII
Well-Known Member
so you admit that you base your measure of scientific accuracy on how closely they mirror your expectations of biblical prediction???
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Defenders of Fornicative Homosexual Acts, what is Your Standard of Right?
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EnemyPartyII
Well-Known Member
no, read what I said again... EVERYTHING Jesus says makes sense.
There ARE, however, bits of the Bible that DON'T make sense, and do not fit what we know of Jesus from the NT, therefore, it seems safe to assume that the nonsensical bits of the Bible are not Jesus related
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Not so. What most people do not understand is that the New Covenant completes the Old Covenant. Is there something specific that morally has you confused based upon what the Old Covenant says in relation to the New?
Again. You'e stepping into the realm of arbitrary. Why should absolute truth be based upon what YOU ALONE believe? Does it not make more sense to you that absolute truth be based upon what an ALL-KNOWING GOD KNOWS?
To do so would be simple. Based upon what you said, all we would have to do is take two adults and get one to agree to murder the other. We've got the adult consent and there is no inherent harm to the community.
Truth is absolute. Your way is not.
the Bible is not the source of confusion. It says what it says. There is no confusion until folks start doing word studies and reading commentaries to see what other folks think or want it to mean.
Which is why I keep saying deal with what the text says, and seek the discernment of the AUTHOR-GOD.
He will not lie, and He will not contradict what His Word says.
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ReformedChapin
Chapin = Guatemalan
First of all you haven't even shown what in the bible doesn't "make sense." What makes sense in your inconsistant liberal mind will not make sense in mine or a muslims. Something that "makes sense" goes into a world view frame work.
If you mean there is an logical inconsistancy, then show it. I haven't found one.
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ReformedChapin
Chapin = Guatemalan
The only inerrant source of information for me is the bible. Science has FLAWS and if you know empericism you would know that it doesn't claim to be inerrant.
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EnemyPartyII
Well-Known Member
completes the OT...? What is that even supposed to mean???
There are parts of the Bible inconsistent with other bits of the Bible. Period.
Sure, IF we were talking about what ON:Y I believe... but how much evidence will it take before you accept that there is truth found OUTSIDE the Bible/
I mean, if you are of the "Bible is true and no amount of science or logic will ever prove it untrue" school of thought, well, thats fine and good, but I see little point in discussing the matter with you, if you refuse to acknowledge the POV of others
wrongo... the two ADULTS IN QUESTION ARE NOT THE ONLY PARTIES INVOLVED, THERE ARE ALSO THE FRIENDS, FAMILY, (sorry caps) workmayes of said adults... who may also be said to be part of the communtiy... does a murder pact cause harm to the wider community? it sure does in terms of the trauma abd cost it causes those associated with it....
sure. But as previously stated, capital T Truth is not necesarily only found in the Bible, nor is everything in the Bible Truth
So... what about the bits of the Bible that contradict other bits of the Bible? absolutely impossible to even attempt to justify them without SOME sort of "word study" or deeper scholarship of the Bible
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EnemyPartyII
Well-Known Member
fair point, except that, if as you state, the Bible were ultimate Truth, surely it would make sense to everyone?
and as I just said to Zaac... if you believe the Bible is indisputable no matter the contrary evidence shown you, well, really, its your life, do what ypu want with it... but it makes it kind of frustrating talking to someone who refuses to consider others PsOV and simply assumes that their own view is correct for no reason beyond it being their own point of view.
I've never claimed science is inerrant... but there is a lot more supporting evidence for many scientific positions than there is for the Bible...
and as I just said to Zaac... if you believe the Bible is indisputable no matter the contrary evidence shown you, well, really, its your life, do what ypu want with it... but it makes it kind of frustrating talking to someone who refuses to consider others PsOV and simply assumes that their own view is correct for no reason beyond it being their own point of view.
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ReformedChapin
Chapin = Guatemalan
Have you actually read the bible?
The bible wasn't meant to be proven. It cannot be, it must be pressuposed to be God's truth.
The evidence cannot prove the bible is wrong because based on your naturalism you will find "evidence" that is against it. But if you find an logical inconsistancy in the biblical framework I will be the first one to renounce it.
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Wiccan_Child
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So you believe in a light-emitting Moon, four-legged locusts, and global floods?
Science? Or theories proposed by science?
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ReformedChapin
Chapin = Guatemalan
Verses to back up your propositions? Your misrepresenting or not understanding the actual position of what scripture said. The "global flood" wasnt global in the sense that it covered the entire earth but that it destroyed all of humanity. I'm surprised you didn't meantion that the bible says that the earth is flat.
Empiricism as a system is flawed since our sense perception is limited and it must always refine itself.
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EnemyPartyII
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yep. Now answer the question... if the Bible is perfect Truth, why doesn't it make the same sense to everyone?
Sounds like a cop out. An excuse so you don't have to acknowledge the bits of the Bible we now know to be incorrect.
You don't HAVE to renounce it, just accept that humans have contributed to it AS WELL as God, and that therefore one must interpret it with the brain as well as the heart... how about the bits that contradict the other bits, and, as the previous poster mentions...So you believe in a light-emitting Moon, four-legged locusts, and global floods?
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EnemyPartyII
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Want more?
GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.
GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.
GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.
GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.
GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.
GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)
GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
(Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.)
GE 2:4, 4:26, 12:8, 22:14-16, 26:25 God was already known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) much earlier than the time of Moses.
EX 6:2-3 God was first known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) at the time of the Egyptian Bondage, during the life of Moses.
GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit.
GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years.
GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil.
HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.
GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's.
2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.
GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.
GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.
LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.
NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.
2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it."
EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him."
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love.
GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
GE 4:16 Cain went away (or out) from the presence of the Lord.
JE 23:23-24 A man cannot hide from God. God fills heaven and earth.
GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood.
GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood.
NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood.
GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.
GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.
GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.
GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.
GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.
GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)
GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
(Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.)
GE 2:4, 4:26, 12:8, 22:14-16, 26:25 God was already known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) much earlier than the time of Moses.
EX 6:2-3 God was first known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) at the time of the Egyptian Bondage, during the life of Moses.
GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit.
GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years.
GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil.
HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.
GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's.
2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.
GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.
GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.
LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.
NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.
2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it."
EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him."
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love.
GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
GE 4:16 Cain went away (or out) from the presence of the Lord.
JE 23:23-24 A man cannot hide from God. God fills heaven and earth.
GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood.
GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood.
NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood.
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It means that God's Word is God's Word. The OT Law did not go away. God simply said with the New Testament that those things that they did in order to be ceremoniously pure, you no longer have to do. But His commandments were made complete and reinforced by the New Testament.
For example, look at the Ten Commandments. He says 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exodus 20:3
That commandment did not go away. It wasmade complete and reinforced by the New Testament where He also says 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. Matthew 22:37-38
There are parts inconsistent with your understanding.PERIOD.
There is no truth found outside the BIBLE that is inconsistent with the truth given by GOD in the BIBLE.
No amount of science and logis has ever proved God's Word untrue. Do you realize how long folks have been trying to do this?
Then in that regard, can the same not be said about the acts of gays as they pertain to their friends and family?
...
Has anyone ever disproven anything in the Bible?
A contradiction means a lie. There are no lies in God's Word. If there is specific Scripture that you have in mind which you would like a better understanding of, let me know.
Not so. The Bible says in Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding
Go to GOD first for your understanding of His Word, not a word study. And the best testimony to the Word is given by the Word itself.
If you want to understand what the text is saying, deal with the text . ALL OF IT. You will understand things that once confused you. Look at what Scripture has to say in different places about the same thing.
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ReformedChapin
Chapin = Guatemalan
Becauase we are sinners? I just gave you the verse.
I already addressed this poition and you refuse to acknoledge it. I'm not going to waste my time repeating myself.
Where does it contradict itself?
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EnemyPartyII
Well-Known Member
If God as represented in the Bible were truly consistant... changing laws would not be necesary
Then please, enlighten me...
GE 6:6. EX 32:14, NU 14:20, 1SA 15:35, 2SA 24:16 God does change his mind.
NU 23:19-20, 1SA 15:29, JA 1:17 God does not change his mind.
GE 6:19-22, 7:8-9, 7:14-16 Two of each kind are to be taken, and are taken, aboard Noah's Ark.
GE 7:2-5 Seven pairs of some kinds are to be taken (and are taken) aboard the Ark.
GE 11:7-9 God sows discord.
PR 6:16-19 God hates anyone who sows discord.
I mean, is it just me who sees contradictions here, or what?
sure they have. Take, for example, the Biblical flood. For all intents and purposes, it has been proved untrue. However, I confidently predict you will turn around and say that there isn't 100% scientific consensus on this and herefore the flood happened, or words to that effect. LOTS of stuff in the Bible doesn't conform to the scientific or archaeological record... the failure of Biblical literalists to acknowledge this is NOT the same as saying that such information doesn't exist.
I'm happy to provide you with examples of several hundred verses that contradict other verses in the Bible, ESPECIALLY if you insist the Bible is to be taken literalistically and at face value, without deeper introspection
yes, lets... scripture in different places say...GE 6:19-22, 7:8-9, 7:14-16 Two of each kind are to be taken, and are taken, aboard Noah's Ark.
GE 7:2-5 Seven pairs of some kinds are to be taken (and are taken) aboard the Ark.
clear as mud
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Wiccan_Child
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Four-legged locusts: Leviticus 11:20-23.
Global Flood: This article is surprisingly convincing (Biblically speaking).
Light-emitting Moon: Genesis 1:16.
Why, becuase I disagree with you?
Given that, at ~4000BCE, humanity was pretty well settled on most continents, that would mean a global flood.
Because it doesn't, not explicitly. It does state that the Earth is immobile, however.
This is not a flaw, since there is no alternative. A priori assumptions tell us nothing.
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EnemyPartyII
Well-Known Member
you want MORE contradictions???
GE 11:9 At Babel, the Lord confused the language of the whole world.
1CO 14:33 Paul says that God is not the author of confusion.
GE 11:12 Arpachshad [Arphaxad] was the father of Shelah.
LK 3:35-36 Cainan was the father of Shelah. Arpachshad was the grandfather of Shelah.
GE 11:26 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born.
GE 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135 at the time).
GE 12:4, AC 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran. This was after Terah died. Thus, Terah could have been no more than 145 when he died; or Abram was only 75 years old after he had lived 135 years.
GE 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 32:30, EX 3:16, 6:2-3, 24:9-11, 33:11, NU 12:7-8, 14:14, JB 42:5, AM 7:7-8, 9:1 God is seen.
EX 33:20, JN 1:18, 1JN 4:12 God is not seen. No one can see God's face and live. No one has ever seen him.
GE 10:5, 20, 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel.
GE 11:1 There was only one language before the Tower of Babel.
GE 15:9, EX 20:24, 29:10-42, LE 1:1-7:38, NU 28:1-29:40, God details sacrificial offerings.
JE 7:21-22 God says he did no such thing.
GE 16:15, 21:1-3, GA 4:22 Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac.
HE 11:17 Abraham had only one son.
GE 17:1, 35:11, 1CH 29:11-12, LK 1:37 God is omnipotent. Nothing is impossible with (or for) God.
JG 1:19 Although God was with Judah, together they could not defeat the plainsmen because the latter had iron chariots.
GE 17:7, 10-11 The covenant of circumcision is to be everlasting.
GA 6:15 It is of no consequence.
GE 17:8 God promises Abraham the land of Canaan as an "everlasting possession." GE 25:8, AC 7:2-5, HE 11:13 Abraham died with the promise unfulfilled.
GE 17:15-16, 20:11-12, 22:17 Abraham and his half sister, Sarai, are married and receive God's blessings.
LE 20:17, DT 27:20-23 Incest is wrong.
GE 11:9 At Babel, the Lord confused the language of the whole world.
1CO 14:33 Paul says that God is not the author of confusion.
GE 11:12 Arpachshad [Arphaxad] was the father of Shelah.
LK 3:35-36 Cainan was the father of Shelah. Arpachshad was the grandfather of Shelah.
GE 11:26 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born.
GE 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135 at the time).
GE 12:4, AC 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran. This was after Terah died. Thus, Terah could have been no more than 145 when he died; or Abram was only 75 years old after he had lived 135 years.
GE 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 32:30, EX 3:16, 6:2-3, 24:9-11, 33:11, NU 12:7-8, 14:14, JB 42:5, AM 7:7-8, 9:1 God is seen.
EX 33:20, JN 1:18, 1JN 4:12 God is not seen. No one can see God's face and live. No one has ever seen him.
GE 10:5, 20, 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel.
GE 11:1 There was only one language before the Tower of Babel.
GE 15:9, EX 20:24, 29:10-42, LE 1:1-7:38, NU 28:1-29:40, God details sacrificial offerings.
JE 7:21-22 God says he did no such thing.
GE 16:15, 21:1-3, GA 4:22 Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac.
HE 11:17 Abraham had only one son.
GE 17:1, 35:11, 1CH 29:11-12, LK 1:37 God is omnipotent. Nothing is impossible with (or for) God.
JG 1:19 Although God was with Judah, together they could not defeat the plainsmen because the latter had iron chariots.
GE 17:7, 10-11 The covenant of circumcision is to be everlasting.
GA 6:15 It is of no consequence.
GE 17:8 God promises Abraham the land of Canaan as an "everlasting possession." GE 25:8, AC 7:2-5, HE 11:13 Abraham died with the promise unfulfilled.
GE 17:15-16, 20:11-12, 22:17 Abraham and his half sister, Sarai, are married and receive God's blessings.
LE 20:17, DT 27:20-23 Incest is wrong.
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ReformedChapin
Chapin = Guatemalan
You must take into account the type of Genre the book of Gensis is. It's not a literal list that you check off. No where does it mean that it was made on a certain day. The same applies through all of these.
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ReformedChapin
Chapin = Guatemalan
I'm not going to bother addressing the rest of these since is the fact you are not paying attention at what the bible actually says...you are making up contradictions.
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ReformedChapin
Chapin = Guatemalan
Again, you are making up contradictions insted of seeying what the text says. If you want me address some of these I will.
You just went to a liberal website that makes this crap up. I have seen pleanty fo them.
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