Do we inherit the Original Sin from Adam and Eve or just the consequences?

Ave Maria · Aug 5, 2007

Hi everyone. :wave:

I am intending for this to be a debate thread between the two views. First of all, please state your view, then state why you believe this. You only have to do this to start with that way it gives a better basis on which to debate. I'll start.

I believe that we actually inherit the actual sin (original sin) from Adam and Eve and that we do not inherit only the consequences. I believe this because I believe it is Biblical.

[BIBLE]Romans 3:23[/BIBLE]

I believe that this teaches that all have sinned, including infants. How can an infant sin? I don't know exactly but this is clearly what this verse teaches in my opinion.

IamAdopted · Aug 5, 2007

Yes we do inherit the complete sin nature and we are slaves to sin until we are born again.

StephanStrategy · Aug 5, 2007

I would argue that Romans 5 states it plainly; we inherit the sin and the consequences and the curse.

Afterall, if we reject Adam as our "representative" how can we expect Christ to represent us in our stead.

Mike

Ave Maria · Aug 6, 2007

IamAdopted said:
Yes we do inherit the complete sin nature and we are slaves to sin until we are born again.

Please define "sin nature".

IamAdopted · Aug 6, 2007

We are born sinners.. We sin because we are sinners

Total deprivaty. In need of salvation from Birth for in Sin did our parents conceive us..

IamAdopted · Aug 6, 2007

We do not become sinners because we sin. We sin because we are sinners..

holyrokker · Aug 10, 2007

No, we do not inherit sin. Sin is not a physical problem. It is a moral problem.

Romans 5 does NOT say that we inherit sin. It says that "sin entered the world through one man, and death spread to all men because all have sinned."

It does NOt say "Sin entered mankind through one man, and sin spread to all men because Adam sinned."

James 1:14-15 says "But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death."

Sin is not already present. Sin is born inside the individual heart.

xristos.anesti · Aug 21, 2007

We inherit consequences of Adam's fall and not Adam's guilt -

Adam has assumed new nature when he fell - he became sinful - we inherit the consequences of the fall and not the guilt -

Adam is guilty of his own sins and we are guilty of our own - no one is guilty of anyone else's sins -

Tavita · Aug 23, 2007

What exactly is the sin nature?

Is it the 'flesh'? The part we need to die to?

holyrokker · Aug 23, 2007

The "sin nature" is what we become when we yield ourselves to sin.

James 1:14-15 "But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death." (ESV)

Romans 6:16 "Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?" (ESV)

armothe · Aug 23, 2007

PeaceLover02 said:
[bible]Romans 3:23[/bible]

I believe that this teaches that all have sinned, including infants. How can an infant sin? I don't know exactly but this is clearly what this verse teaches in my opinion.

The only thing that verse teaches is that all have sinned and thus come short of the glory of God.

You are providing an eisegesis of this scripture:

a) everyone is born a sinner
b) sin is physically inherited

If you rather exegete the passage you will realize the conveyed intent is that sin leads to seperation from God.

-A

armothe · Aug 23, 2007

IamAdopted said:
We do not become sinners because we sin. We sin because we are sinners..

You do not go fishing because you are a fisherman. You are a fisherman because you go fishing.

-A

JolieHeart · Oct 5, 2007

We are not born sinners. Being born is not a sin. We are born with Free Will, and hence we have choices and the consequences of our actions. It is Free Won't that we need to cultivate.

Ben12 · Oct 14, 2007

JolieHeart said:
We are not born sinners. Being born is not a sin. We are born with Free Will, and hence we have choices and the consequences of our actions. It is Free Won't that we need to cultivate.

Freewill comes from religion and is not in the Bible when it comes to salvation.

Romans 3:11

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

God told Adam; if you eat of this tree; you will die; so Adam died (spiritually). Only though death can that be turned around; the death of Jesus on the cross; as well as the death to self; which is the second death or death to death. God wanted Adam to sin; so that God’s people will be changed. If Adam was just a perfect spiritual being with no defects; He would have just like many you disagree with ; a puppet. God desires obedience more then sacrifice; this takes a process of (SPIRITUAL) growth.

It was God’s choose Adam to sin because God has a greater plan. If God did not ordain Adam and Eves sin; then He is not all knowing. Yes we have a free will; but not one verse in the Bible declares this when it comes to salvation. God draws us or if you dig a little harder He drags us; there is NO FREE WILL when you are being dragged.

John 6:44

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws

(drag Greek) him, and I will raise him up at the last day

1670 helkuo (hel-koo'-o); drag

Jeremiah 18:2

Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.

3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.

4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

It is not a matter of freewill; (we are saved by grace not freewill) free will is a non scriptural word that religious men use to make men feel guilty) for the only freewill we have is to sin; it is a matter of processing, maturing, growing and developing, learning etc.

The Children of Israel could of taken 9 days to cross the wilderness. BUT No God led them for forty years. Now we are walking in this wilderness of life for the same reason:

Deut 8:1-2

All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers. 2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments. (KJV)

holyrokker · Oct 15, 2007

John 7:17 "If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own."

Isn't that free will?

SpiritMeadow · Oct 15, 2007

You might be interested in an article originally written for NCR by Domning. Although its about evolution and original sin, its speaks to this issue and has a rather interesting answer. You can find it at:

http://iowamusings.blogspot.com on the mainpage look under Blog Archive for Oct. for Evolution and Original Sin.

Paul365 · Nov 22, 2007

If we did not inherit sin, then why did we inherit the consequences of Adam's sin? Usually, consequences are the result of something you do, and not of something someone else does.

vekarppe · Nov 23, 2007

We cannot flee from the effects of Adam's fall, but, as I believe, there is also individual responsibility.

IamAdopted · Nov 23, 2007

Sin is not a physical problem. It is a moral problem.

Actually it is a physical and heart problem. For Since through Adam sin came into being. anyone born has been born in the state of Adam from then on.. For a sinner begets a sinner..

Once again. We sin because we are conceived and born slaves to sin.. Doing an act of sin does not make one a sinner.. It just shows our falled nature and we act out of what comes naturally.. Sin.

Tkjjc · Nov 23, 2007

I thought this was cute, but WOW does it speak loudly...

"A meaningful incident was once related by a Radio Commentator, reporting on how a young couple brought a new baby brother home to his four-year-old sister. The little girl kept begging to be allowed to be left alone with him. Finally the parents gave permission. There was an intercom in the babys room, so they listened closely so if necessary they could rush in. The little girl walked quietly to the crib where her baby brother slept, and her parents heard her plead, Tell me about God. Im forgetting.

How is one born of purity and innocence, condemned to death? Wasn't it Jesus who said to come to Him as children? I just think it is a man made doctrine, to condemn ALL for eternity, when through Jesus, we ALL live. Yes the death sentence was passed from Adam(IN THE FLESH), but through the second Adam(IN THE SPIRIT), or second Man, that sentence was nullified, and the bridge or ladder restored to heaven. One doesn't need to wait until death to experience this, but must be a overcoming Saint of God. The flesh is weak, yes, but the condemnation is forever stayed through Jesus. The balance and original plan of God came through for us, whom He loved, when He sent His Son to die.

TO think that this is an exclusive club that only few get to come into, would be like saying that there was a way that from the first Adam, there was an escape clause built in, and you can live forever in the flesh. That isn't the case.

The question shouldn't be whether the doctrine of Original Sin(Death) is a valid one. The question should be whether the doctrine of Original Salvation(Saved) is. I believe so, and this is imputed through Christ Jesus. To say otherwise means He didn't die for everyone. Now, whether they get a open door upon Death is another topic. There must be a reckoning for those who didn't believe, but nevertheless, in the end, EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, and EVERY EYE WILL SEE.

Do we inherit the Original Sin from Adam and Eve or just the consequences?

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