Televised Tridentine Mass on EWTN

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IgnatiusOfAntioch

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At 8:00am on September 14th, EWTN is going to televise a Tridentine mass from their shrine live, with the celebrant and others being provided by the FSSP. What do you all think? Excited? Horrified? Ambivalent? Neutral?

:crossrc: Alellulia! Alellulia! Alellulia! Glory be to God for all that He does for His Holy Catholic Church.:crossrc:
Amen.


This is an answer to prayer. How long I have prayed for this. It is springtime for the Catholic Church, The beginning of the restoration of the Sanctity of the Church.
 
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Filia Mariae

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I don't particularly care, though the shrine in Alabama is gorgeous.

A reverently celebrated Mass is beautiful no matter what Rite it's celebrated in. A sloppy, irreverant Mass is offensive, no matter what Rite it's celebrated it.

To be perfectly honest, I think it would provide far greater benefit to the Church if most Traditionalists would spend 1/20 the amount of energy they spend on finding a TLM on improving the Novus Ordo in their local parish.
 
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Servus Iesu

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I don't particularly care, though the shrine in Alabama is gorgeous.

A reverently celebrated Mass is beautiful no matter what Rite it's celebrated in. A sloppy, irreverant Mass is offensive, no matter what Rite it's celebrated it.

To be perfectly honest, I think it would provide far greater benefit to the Church if most Traditionalists would spend 1/20 the amount of energy they spend on finding a TLM on improving the Novus Ordo in their local parish.
Rather than argue the merits of the Old Mass against the New, I would simply like to point out that there are many Novus Ordo Catholics who spend a lot of time ramming their head against a cement wall trying to improve the reverence or piety of their mainstream Church. They often meet with little success. The Priest and the lay people who have the power in the parish are happy with their celebration of the liturgy. They don't want some "Pharisee" trying to confuse them with rubrics and documents from Rome telling them what they are doing is wrong.

Many of these same people are systematically shut out of the life of the parish. They attempt to make their mark through volunteering for religious education or offering to begin a study of the catechism. But they are rebuffed. We wouldn't want to see the kids learn dangerous and subversive practices from radical traditionalists, like *gasp* the rosary.

So instead of fighting constantly with people who absolutely have no desire of changing anything they do, they follow the biblical injunction to shake the dust from their sandals and move on. They go to the Mass of Tradition where they can worship the Father through His Son Jesus Christ with peace of mind and harmony of soul.
 
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QuantaCura

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Rather than argue the merits of the Old Mass against the New, I would simply like to point out that there are many Novus Ordo Catholics who spend a lot of time ramming their head against a cement wall trying to improve the reverence or piety of their mainstream Church. They often meet with little success. The Priest and the lay people who have the power in the parish are happy with their celebration of the liturgy. They don't want some "Pharisee" trying to confuse them with rubrics and documents from Rome telling them what they are doing is wrong.

Many of these same people are systematically shut out of the life of the parish. They attempt to make their mark through volunteering for religious education or offering to begin a study of the catechism. But they are rebuffed. We wouldn't want to see the kids learn dangerous and subversive practices from radical traditionalists, like *gasp* the rosary.

So instead of fighting constantly with people who absolutely have no desire of changing anything they do, they follow the biblical injunction to shake the dust from their sandals and move on. They go to the Mass of Tradition where they can worship the Father through His Son Jesus Christ with peace of mind and harmony of soul.

I've been to a ton of parishes and dioceses in my day and I have never seen one spurn the Rosary.

There was group of sedevancantist nuns who reconciled with the Church recently. One of the points they brought up was how their leaders were describing the Church was not in tune with reality. They were told things that you are repeating here, but they found it to simply not be true. I really hope what was happening to them is not happening to you now...
 
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stray bullet

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I don't particularly care, though the shrine in Alabama is gorgeous.

A reverently celebrated Mass is beautiful no matter what Rite it's celebrated in. A sloppy, irreverant Mass is offensive, no matter what Rite it's celebrated it.

To be perfectly honest, I think it would provide far greater benefit to the Church if most Traditionalists would spend 1/20 the amount of energy they spend on finding a TLM on improving the Novus Ordo in their local parish.

Why put energy into parishes that are staffed by people who want to liberalize the Mass? Not forgetting the biggest problem with N.O Masses are the priests themselves.

I have seen more abuses and nonsense at Mass come by the decisions of priests. The best thing you can do is abandon these communities and join a parish where the people and the priest have their head on straight.
 
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Fish and Bread

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There was group of sedevancantist nuns who reconciled with the Church recently. One of the points they brought up was how their leaders were describing the Church was not in tune with reality. They were told things that you are repeating here, but they found it to simply not be true. I really hope what was happening to them is not happening to you now...

I don't really have an axe to grind either way on this, but here is how what I would say. I have in the last few years attended at least one mass at at least five Roman Catholic parishes (Novus Ordo). Here is how I would describe those masses to the best of my recollection:

* Parish A followed the ruberics well, but did have cardboard flames coming out of a tabernacle and a guy with a guitar playing bad modern songs (I liked some modern religious music, I have a Dan Schutte CD, but I just thought this selection was banal -- and, remember, I like Dan Schutte, whom many consider banal, so... :)) and an occasional traditional hymn (On a guitar, which really didn't work -- if you are using a guitar, stick with the modern stuff -- don't try to play stuff written for a pipe organ -- it amused me, but I don't think that was what the music director was going for :)).

* Parish B followed the rubrics and had a decent selection of modern music plus a couple mass parts in Latin once and a litany in English with a traditional setting another time.

* Parish C followed the rubrics and had a decent selection of traditional English language hymns.

* Parish D followed the rubrics and had a guy playing a guitar featuring a good selection of modern songs with interesting modern musical settings for certain mass parts.

* Parish E featured the gloria as the processional song and a priest who skipped stuff in the liturgy randomly and started doing random monologues to describe what was coming next and whether we'd like it or not, including commentary on readings and mass rubrics and songs. His mass included a baptism in which he randomly sprinkled the baby six or seven times but not identifiably at the three "correct" times. The music was bad.

So, it seems to depend on the parish to some degree. Overall, the conclusion I'd draw based on the limited sample size is that the average Roman Catholic parish follows the rubrics and preaches homilies that are within the bounds of Catholic orthodoxy but has questionable taste in music and aesthetics. I think a lot of them would be best served by choosing a solid musical direction for each mass, firstly, and then following it by selecting well-known songs and instrumentation that fit with that theme. If you want to play traditional English-language music, have a pipe organ and a choir on hand and select good songs. If you want to use a guitar, stick to the modern stuff and again select good songs. If you want to do Latin chant, have a Latin choir and do the classics people remember like "Veni Creator Spiritus" and "Ave Maria".

I guess "good songs" is open to debate, but starting with popular songs would be a good start -- traditional think old standards like "Lift High the Cross" and "A Mighty Fortress is Our God", contemporary maybe "Here I Am, Lord" and "One Bread, One Body". Don't try to go with too wide a selection and hit the whole hymnal, there is too much that just isn't any good in most hymnals. If you have to pick 20 songs and repeat them throughout the year, varying for feast days (Where I'd strongly consider using mostly the same songs each year), do it. Maybe use one non-popular song a mass to get variety and hit people's favorites, but mostly stick to the classics and the popular and the ones that fit the instrumentation you have available.

Just my six cents. :)
 
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Servus Iesu

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I've been to a ton of parishes and dioceses in my day and I have never seen one spurn the Rosary.

There was group of sedevancantist nuns who reconciled with the Church recently. One of the points they brought up was how their leaders were describing the Church was not in tune with reality. They were told things that you are repeating here, but they found it to simply not be true. I really hope what was happening to them is not happening to you now...
I'm describing my (geographical) home Novus Ordo parish. They have shut out every orthodox Catholic from teaching. Parishioners requested a catechism study, they were told no. They have eucharistic adoration, but it is run by lay people. The priest never comes. He refuses to encourage it or speak about it from the pulpit.

I have friends there who travel with me over an hour, once a week, to attend the Roman Mass at 6:30 in the morning. That is how desperate I have found people for real Catholicism.
 
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Fantine

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A lot of elderly and homebound people watch EWTN.

I think that some of them may really appreciate the Tridentine Mass.

The Mass of their youth and young adulthood may help revive pleasant memories and be psychologically beneficial.

My Dad is 90, and most of the time he watches Mass on TV. I think that he would probably appreciate it.
 
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SeraphimSarov

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Servus Iesu

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Thanks for the links. My dad keeps asking me if the Orthodox Divine Liturgy is like the solemn high Mass; maybe now I'll be able to give an answer. Assuming I can find a missal in both Latin and English to follow along. :p
I think they are quite different in ethos. But they are both unambiguously directed toward the worship and propitiation of the Father through His Son Jesus Christ, and that is what is most important.

I would say that they do bear similarities. Afterall, they both arise out of the pre-schism Church, though in geographically and culturally distinct areas of the universal church. Let me know what you think of those videos.
 
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Servus Iesu

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Thanks for the links. My dad keeps asking me if the Orthodox Divine Liturgy is like the solemn high Mass; maybe now I'll be able to give an answer. Assuming I can find a missal in both Latin and English to follow along. :p
Did your dad leave the Roman Church after they 'improved' everything? I've heard dozens of personal stories like that. My grandfather didn't leave entirely, but he felt betrayed.
 
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SeraphimSarov

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Did your dad leave the Roman Church after they 'improved' everything? I've heard dozens of personal stories like that. My grandfather didn't leave entirely, but he felt betrayed.
1) He saw a lot of politics in the church as a boy - probably related to Vatican II, now that I think about it... hmm. He has a low opinion of all churches in general these days, but refuses to denounce Roman Catholicism.

2) He has expressed interest in going to Mass again now that there is a Tridentine Mass being offered in our area, so once again, hmm.
 
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Servus Iesu

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1) He saw a lot of politics in the church as a boy - probably related to Vatican II, now that I think about it... hmm. He has a low opinion of all churches in general these days, but refuses to denounce Roman Catholicism.

2) He has expressed interest in going to Mass again now that there is a Tridentine Mass being offered in our area, so once again, hmm.
What did you think of the clips?
 
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