Praying for Others

I've sort of been struggling with this too. I don't want "my will be done," lest I be like the caricature you-know-who and some others make of me and people like me.
So as for now I simply pray for safety from harm for my family and friends, the healing of someone I love, that my sins be forgiven, the salvation of a few lost souls, and thanks to God. I believe that all of these are in the will of God.

Sovergnty
God is that, but not the way you think He is.
God is like a coach and your the player, if you are the star player and get hurt, but can still play. He will use you but not the way he wants to.
God doesn't want you hurt, but in His sovergnty he will still use it.

God's will.
Its not a mystery.
Does God want everyone saved?
Does He want a personaly relationship?
Does He want His children to goto church?
Does He want you to pray and bless people?
Does He want you delivered from sin, sickness, and impure thoughts?
Are you a puppet?

There are many things in the bible that are black and white, but sometimes its the wrong time. Like does a born again do prophecy the same day they are saved?
Perhaps God wants you to goto another place.

Things that are not black and white, are things that you wonder and ask Him, if it is His will or not.
Do you ask God "Is this sin ok with you?"
If someone is weak, sick, or needs prayer in some way do you say "God should I pray and or help this person?"

If you are young in Christ then you have alot to learn, and doing the gifts of the spirit might not be in God's will for you at that time. God's will would be for you to learn, about alot of things (prayer, worship, fellowship, being set free, gifts) But you can only learn so much at once, and He knows where you are, and the plan for your life, it is you that chooses to follow or not.

Originally posted by humblejoe
I'm looking specifically for a Reformed perspective...

If praying/interceding for someone can not change the Sovereign Will of God, then what is the purpose? Why should I ever pray for anyone? Why should I pray at all?

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Hey joe.  I'll give you an answer from a reformed perspective as that is what you asked for.  As you know, God is righteous in all His ways.  To make the assumption that God would ever need to change His mind is itself ludicrous, not to mention, unbiblical.  If every action He has ever divinely decreed is perfectly righteous, what's the alternative we are asking Him to consider?  Do we know better than God about anything?  Well, the truth is, we often think we do.  We say stuff like, "This can't be a God thing," or, "God would never bring this into my life.  It must be the result of something I've done to anger Him and now I'm reaping the results of those actions as a penalty."  That is not a reformed view of God.  If we truly have faith that God is sovereign and "works all things to the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose" then we can easily understand that the skewed view is not His view, it's ours.  That, my friend, is the purpose of prayer in all things.  We pray, first and foremost, to acknowledge our total dependance on God for all things.  Prayer is a method of our being conformed to the image of Christ, who always put God's Will first.  Additionally, we pray because it glorifies God for us to do so.  It is the open acknowledgement from a creation to it's Creator for our will to be aligned with His.  Prayer also serves another purpose.  As one body of Christians it is important for us to love our neighbors as we love ourselves.  Our desire for the well-being of others is indicative of a godly love that He has instilled in us.  We are a family.  When the Bible says "For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them" it means that the love of God, through His creation, is striving for the needs of each other in obedience to His Word.

Prayer is about changing us, not God.

God bless

Originally posted by humblejoe
Actually, I've come a long way in my relationship with God. My questions were more didactic than anything else. I appreciate your advice, but I am not a new Christian or "young in Christ", and I am Reformed in theology. I was also confused by your comments on spiritual gifts; my questions did not concern those areas. As far as your statements about "free will" are concerned, I'll merely post what I believe, because I don't want this thread hijacked by a Calvinism -vs- Arminianism debate: I believe that God is completely Sovereign, and controls all events of the universe according to His good pleasure.

I know that Scripture commands that we are to pray for one another. I merely wish to discuss the reasoning and purpose behind it, from a Reformed perspective.

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I wasn't questioning your maturity, that was an example of "Gods will".
Spriritual gifts, yet another example of "Gods will". When to do it and when to not kind of thing.


You believe that God is completely sovereign and controls all events.
I don't believe this is biblical at all. Thats why praying wouldn't make since to you if you believe like that.
God wouldn't want us to pray if He was in total control.
So to answer your question, I don't believe that God is in total control, thats why I pray for myself and others.

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
God wouldn't want us to pray if He was in total control.

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So what good do you think it would do to pray to God about something He wasn't in control of?

So to answer your question, I don't believe that God is in total control, thats why I pray for myself and others.

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Do you know what the word sovereign means?  You said that you believed God was sovereign.

God bless

Originally posted by Reformationist
So what good do you think it would do to pray to God about something He wasn't in control of?



Do you know what the word sovereign means?  You said that you believed God was sovereign.

God bless

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I didn't say he was out of control.
What I mean is, if he was in total control, then we are just puppets.
If He was in total control then our sins, are his fault.
God is in total control of the over all plan, but has limited Himself by giving us free will.

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
I didn't say he was out of control.

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You're right.  You said, "I don't believe that God is in total control."  So you believe there are some things that someone, or something, else is in control of, right?  Let's not speak in hazy, grammatically incorrect terms, okay?  He's either in control of everything, there are some things He's not in control of, or He is in control of nothing.  How do you determine if God is in control of something?  Are there verses you look to for guidance in this area?

What I mean is, if he was in total control, then we are just puppets.
If He was in total control then our sins, are his fault.

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There's a not-so-new, Arminianist line of thinking.

God is in total control of the over all plan, but has limited Himself by giving us free will.

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And you gleaned this opinion from what scriptures?  Also, how can you be in "total control of the over all plan" but not be in control of portions of it?  Or do you not think we are part of that "over all plan?"

God bless

Originally posted by Reformationist
You're right.  You said, "I don't believe that God is in total control."  So you believe there are some things that someone, or something, else is in control of, right?  Let's not speak in hazy, grammatically incorrect terms, okay?  He's either in control of everything, there are some things He's not in control of, or He is in control of nothing.  How do you determine if God is in control of something?  Are there verses you look to for guidance in this area?



There's a not-so-new, Arminianist line of thinking.



And you gleaned this opinion from what scriptures?  Also, how can you be in "total control of the over all plan" but not be in control of portions of it?  Or do you not think we are part of that "over all plan?"

God bless

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Good question.

Matthew 21:33 the parable of the Landowner
Whatever "you" sow "you" shall reap.
Job 4:8, Hos 10:12, Gal 6:7, 2Co 9:6, Prov 11:18 + 22:8
"You are "free" to eat from any tree in the garden..." Gen 2:16
"I will walk about in Freedom" Psalms 119:45

Freewill Offerings
Ex 35:29, Ezr 1:4, Ps 54:6

Bound, and Loosed
"I will give "YOU" the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matt 16:19 and again in Matt 18:18

Look at my sig, it starts with you.

Is this enough? I have more if you like.

Whats the use, God is in total control!!

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
Matthew 21:33 the parable of the Landowner

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Not following you on this one.  What is this in referrence to?  Free will?  I hope not, because this has nothing to do with "free will."

Whatever "you" sow "you" shall reap.

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Also not sure what this has to do with the "freeness" of one's will.  Please explain.

Job 4:8, Hos 10:12, Gal 6:7, 2Co 9:6, Prov 11:18 + 22:8

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What did you do bro, look up the words "sow" and "reap" in your concordance?  NONE of these verses have anything to do with whether the will is FREE.  I have never disputed that mankind was created with the ability to make decisions.  That does not make his will free.

"You are "free" to eat from any tree in the garden..." Gen 2:16

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You seem to have conveniently left out the next verse that qualifies their will as NOT FREE:

v. 17: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

If their will was "free" it would not be subject to anything outside itself.  As it is subject to God's commandments, it is not "free."  Additionally, it is fruitless to describe the state of the will of mankind before the Fall (Adam and Eve) with the state of the will of mankind after the Fall (everyone else, except Jesus).  It's pointless because you are talking about two different things.

"I will walk about in Freedom" Psalms 119:45

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Couple of things here.  First, the author of that Psalm was a Christian.  The "freeness" of the will of a regenerated person is markedly different than the will of the unregenerate.  Second, you might want to read all of chapter 119.  It clarifies why he is "free."  It is not referring to his will though.  Regardless of salvitic disposition we are all still subject to our nature and the judgment of God.  Therefore, our actions are not free. 

Freewill Offerings
Ex 35:29, Ezr 1:4, Ps 54:6

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You need to stay away from your concordance and start studying.  Looking up words in a concordance and then using out of context scripture as a basis for your beliefs is unhealthy.

God bless

Originally posted by humblejoe
Why does Scripture say that the prayer of a righteous man is powerful?

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How edifying is it for you and those around you to have your prayers answered that were in line with the Will of God and offered in supplication to His Majesty?  Pretty powerful, huh?

Are some prayers more powerful than others?

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Prayer changes us. Period.  If you're talking about specific, rehersed, repetitive prayer, like the "Lord's prayer," no.

God bless

Free will - the power and exercise of unhampered choice, "he did it of his own free will" ; the doctrine thta man is free to control his own actions uncoerced by necessity of fate free-will; a freewill offering

Webster's Dictionary
I like how they stuck that "a freewill offering" at the end.

Sovereign of or relating to a sovereign/ having undisputed right to make decisions and act accordingly.

So I ask you, is God in total control? If he is then how do we have free will?
Why do we sin? Who's fault is it that we sin?

Originally posted by Reformationist
Not following you on this one.  What is this in referrence to?  Free will?  I hope not, because this has nothing to do with "free will."



Also not sure what this has to do with the "freeness" of one's will.  Please explain.



What did you do bro, look up the words "sow" and "reap" in your concordance?  NONE of these verses have anything to do with whether the will is FREE.  I have never disputed that mankind was created with the ability to make decisions.  That does not make his will free.



You seem to have conveniently left out the next verse that qualifies their will as NOT FREE:

v. 17: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

If their will was "free" it would not be subject to anything outside itself.  As it is subject to God's commandments, it is not "free."  Additionally, it is fruitless to describe the state of the will of mankind before the Fall (Adam and Eve) with the state of the will of mankind after the Fall (everyone else, except Jesus).  It's pointless because you are talking about two different things.



Couple of things here.  First, the author of that Psalm was a Christian.  The "freeness" of the will of a regenerated person is markedly different than the will of the unregenerate.  Second, you might want to read all of chapter 119.  It clarifies why he is "free."  It is not referring to his will though.  Regardless of salvitic disposition we are all still subject to our nature and the judgment of God.  Therefore, our actions are not free. 



You need to stay away from your concordance and start studying.  Looking up words in a concordance and then using out of context scripture as a basis for your beliefs is unhealthy.

God bless

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A concordance is a great tool.

Taking scripture out of context you say?
Explain to me "bound and loose" verses in Matt.

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
Free will - the power and exercise of unhampered choice, "he did it of his own free will" ; the doctrine thta man is free to control his own actions uncoerced by necessity of fate free-will; a freewill offering

Webster's Dictionary
I like how they stuck that "a freewill offering" at the end.

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So because Noah Webster defines free will as the "freedom to control one's own actions uncoerced by the necessity of fate" then that is Gospel for you?  Freewill is "the ability to make ANY AND ALL decisions in a given moral situation."  Fallen man did not have that ability.  Make decisions, yes.  Make any decision, no.  What exactly do you think the Fall did to the will of man?  You obviously don't believe it made him unresponsive to God, nor unable to reconcile himself to God.  What effect did the Fall have on mankind, in your opinion.

Sovereign of or relating to a sovereign/ having undisputed right to make decisions and act accordingly.

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Pray tell, where did you get this definition.  It certainly isn't Bible based.  As far as I know, all humans have the ability to make decisions, though some are not rationally based.  The "undisputed right to make decisions and act accordingly," huh?  Does that mean that you have the right and ability to choose to do anything?  If so, please demonstrate.  Go ahead and decide to jump to the moon and then, when you get back, let us know what it's like.  That's not sovereignty.  Biblical sovereignty is when actions are not influenced by anything outside oneself and the manifestation of the will is a exclusive result of that will.

So I ask you, is God in total control?

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Yes

If he is then how do we have free will?

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We don't.

Why do we sin?

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That depends on who the "we" is you're referring to.

 Who's fault is it that we sin?

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Who's fault do you think it is?

God bless

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
A concordance is a great tool.

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Of course it is.  It's just not meant to be used by itself.  Context is equally important to finding the meaning of a word as finding the word itself.

Explain to me "bound and loose" verses in Matt.

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Do you think that applies to everyone?  Or was He just referring to the Apostles?

You still got a headache from yesterday, Ref. My eyes are still glazed and my vision is fuzzy. By the way... it was Mary's free choice. Mwa ha ha ha ha! j/k

In all seriousness, could you explain the Arminian line of thought to me, please?

God Bless,

Neal